When the Devils completed their roster they looked to have a team that would be close to winning the title until other teams brought in some quality AHL / DEL / TOP ECHL signings. Steelers, Giants, Panthers and Blaze in my opinion will probable finish higher than the Devils this season, but you guys do have a strong team so you never know what might happen over the course of a season..
Devils v Giants - 05/09 - League - 6:00pm
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Sorry Mooney, 2 games in and you think dump and chase is how we should play then god help us.
I doubt very much that G has recruited a team based on d & c ( if he has, I stand corrected, but in that case, god help him!) having seem individual players for the first time its hard to make accurate assessments this early in a season, I would say however that I'm not as impressed with our intake of players as I was this time last year with our 09/10 team.
I also don't think our fixtures will help us too much either and that makes it harder for the team as well. I'm hoping for a vast improvement next week and if not, don't be at all surprised if G acts sooner than expected, no one is indispensable
I doubt very much that G has recruited a team based on d & c ( if he has, I stand corrected, but in that case, god help him!) having seem individual players for the first time its hard to make accurate assessments this early in a season, I would say however that I'm not as impressed with our intake of players as I was this time last year with our 09/10 team.
I also don't think our fixtures will help us too much either and that makes it harder for the team as well. I'm hoping for a vast improvement next week and if not, don't be at all surprised if G acts sooner than expected, no one is indispensable
Yup, in some years we've played dump and no chase!
Nothing wrong with d&c Mooney, it is a very effective tactic when applied properly, however it's not the prettiest on the eye generally (unless Tylor is chasing!).
That was one component of Matsos' coaching that made Sheffield pretty boring to watch..... Well that and playing trap hockey for 55mins after scoring in the first 5!!!!
Nothing wrong with d&c Mooney, it is a very effective tactic when applied properly, however it's not the prettiest on the eye generally (unless Tylor is chasing!).
That was one component of Matsos' coaching that made Sheffield pretty boring to watch..... Well that and playing trap hockey for 55mins after scoring in the first 5!!!!
Don't get me wrong dump and no chase or a rather passive forecheck is pointless and highly unattractive but dumping in with an effective two man forecheck leads to some rather entertaining hard hitting hockey with alot of offensive zone turnovers caused. If you've a team with more speed than skill I would rather see the puck down low in the opposition zone than bogged down in the neutral as fancy break out patterns are broken down by mis control and defensive poke checks.
You use your positives to your advantage and then work to reduce the effect of negatives. If speed and checking is a positive use it and reduce the amount of time wasted in the neutral zone.
For the Devils this year its not about style its about winning and silverware. It might just be they need to win ugly.
You use your positives to your advantage and then work to reduce the effect of negatives. If speed and checking is a positive use it and reduce the amount of time wasted in the neutral zone.
For the Devils this year its not about style its about winning and silverware. It might just be they need to win ugly.
a) the punters would hate it - we tried it years ago( under the coach with big moustache sorry can't remember name ) it didn't work for us then and I don't think we have the set up to do it now
b) we would need to be a damn sight fitter than we are at present, so much too early to even consider such tactics.
c) G sees this team as a skilled passing type of team and certainly not a d & c team
d) we are trying to get bums on seats, d & c doesn't do that
e) good D units would much prefer to handle d & c scenarios than having to try and get the better of skilled forwards, we would play into a good D's hands.
f) a 13 man Sheff side didn't need to do it ( 12 men once a player was thrown out in 1st or 2nd period !)
g) we don't t play as a d & c team ( even last night) most d & c teams will have a forward who is given licence to stay up and hassle when the puck is released from a deep D area.
That's enough for now I think
b) we would need to be a damn sight fitter than we are at present, so much too early to even consider such tactics.
c) G sees this team as a skilled passing type of team and certainly not a d & c team
d) we are trying to get bums on seats, d & c doesn't do that
e) good D units would much prefer to handle d & c scenarios than having to try and get the better of skilled forwards, we would play into a good D's hands.
f) a 13 man Sheff side didn't need to do it ( 12 men once a player was thrown out in 1st or 2nd period !)
g) we don't t play as a d & c team ( even last night) most d & c teams will have a forward who is given licence to stay up and hassle when the puck is released from a deep D area.
That's enough for now I think
Gotta be honest first 5 mins i though oh thats it we are done for who is getting the can but we came back hard and fast, i think losing Voth was a part of it, our second line was good but lost that edge a bit. i dont mind d and chase second and third line could do it rather well but not the first! :twisted: Jon Pelle is getting better everytime i see him 
. Lyle was a bit iffy first thing but came back strong!! I am looking forward to seeing Sawyer drop them !!!! And Max/Tylor well wow seems them came better than last year
. Lyle was a bit iffy first thing but came back strong!! I am looking forward to seeing Sawyer drop them !!!! And Max/Tylor well wow seems them came better than last year I think you're exactly right with this comment, something that was discussed quite heatedly between a group of us at the game last night.
It's important that we pick up a trophy this year, and if that means grinding out a few games then so be it (as we seemed to try last night).
But then, that's my opinion as a die-hard fan who is there week in week out. However, a fan who can't make so many games was looking at the 'package' that his ticket provides and he had a more negative view where the product didn't look entertaining and questioned whether newbies can be attracted back under that brand.
I guess it's the age old addage of 'you can't please all of the people, all of the time'. I'm still pretty excited about what we can achieve to be honest, because, despite the performances not being the best over the weekend (understatement for Saturday!), they look like they are inches away from it all coming together.
And what's G's favourite quote? 'Hockey is a game of inches!'
It's important that we pick up a trophy this year, and if that means grinding out a few games then so be it (as we seemed to try last night).
But then, that's my opinion as a die-hard fan who is there week in week out. However, a fan who can't make so many games was looking at the 'package' that his ticket provides and he had a more negative view where the product didn't look entertaining and questioned whether newbies can be attracted back under that brand.
I guess it's the age old addage of 'you can't please all of the people, all of the time'. I'm still pretty excited about what we can achieve to be honest, because, despite the performances not being the best over the weekend (understatement for Saturday!), they look like they are inches away from it all coming together.
And what's G's favourite quote? 'Hockey is a game of inches!'
There in lies the great debate. Are you going to play fancy and lose or play ugly and win. Myself I would guess you would lose more bums on seats losing hockey games than playing dump and chase. Of course everyone would ideally love to see fast skating, passing and dekes to undress opposition defences on the rush but if with the tools at your disposal its a non starter i think the failing is in not identifying it as quick as possible and modifying your game plan to suit your advantages. You can't just continue to hammer away in the neutral zone out of some puritan hockey mentallity that says dump and chase is bad and a last resort.
I don't have the figures, but didn't Steelers attendences steadily decline under Matsos even when they won back to back playoffs?
Winning finals ugly is fine, you have the joy at the end to make you forget (or at least don the rose tinted specs!), but over 27+ home games it would get old quickly.
You'd get attendence boosts when league rivals were in town, or when you're a game away from the league...but would that cover the overall lower crowds?
Winning finals ugly is fine, you have the joy at the end to make you forget (or at least don the rose tinted specs!), but over 27+ home games it would get old quickly.
You'd get attendence boosts when league rivals were in town, or when you're a game away from the league...but would that cover the overall lower crowds?
I hazard a guess they dwindled alot more last season when they were losing on home ice than the year before when they were winning.
Don't get me wrong i'm not saying every rush up the ice should be a dump in but when a d man has the puck four feet behind the centre line do you want him to back up to free up time and space for a pass or take the four feet and grab the dump in. Thats the sort of decision making we're talking between possesion retention and dump in and chase. Players have to be smart enough to recognise if there is a free lane in front of them or not and if they have one into the zone I would expect it to be taken but if nothing is on I would rather see a dump in than a curl back and try again.
I just thought for the first part last night they tried to retain possesion and it didn't work as they were forcing bad passes and belfast were very successful at trapping up the neutral zone. When the puck was put into the Belfast zone and there defence was turned around and hit with a forecheck there was alot more benefit to be seen. Therefore I would hope for future games the D and forwards would be told if it bogs down then don't hesitate to take the dump in as we have the speed to get there first and get the turnover.
I just hope people remember that if the team are losing later in the year they asked to be entertained irrespective of the result on the scoreboard because I know which one G will be rated by and I'd expect those people to be vocal in support of him so long as they are liking what they are seeing.
Don't get me wrong i'm not saying every rush up the ice should be a dump in but when a d man has the puck four feet behind the centre line do you want him to back up to free up time and space for a pass or take the four feet and grab the dump in. Thats the sort of decision making we're talking between possesion retention and dump in and chase. Players have to be smart enough to recognise if there is a free lane in front of them or not and if they have one into the zone I would expect it to be taken but if nothing is on I would rather see a dump in than a curl back and try again.
I just thought for the first part last night they tried to retain possesion and it didn't work as they were forcing bad passes and belfast were very successful at trapping up the neutral zone. When the puck was put into the Belfast zone and there defence was turned around and hit with a forecheck there was alot more benefit to be seen. Therefore I would hope for future games the D and forwards would be told if it bogs down then don't hesitate to take the dump in as we have the speed to get there first and get the turnover.
I just hope people remember that if the team are losing later in the year they asked to be entertained irrespective of the result on the scoreboard because I know which one G will be rated by and I'd expect those people to be vocal in support of him so long as they are liking what they are seeing.
the way i look at it how many times do they dump and chase in the NHL not very often because they have fast skilled playes who can skate the puck in from there own zone and when they do dump and chase they chase it down really hard. imo cardiff did not have the skill to skate the puck in to the zone last nite i hope this will improve as cardiff played good entertaining hockey last season and was a pleasure to drive all that way to watch them i am still hopefull they will improve
A very true point, Mooney, and I can see what you are saying about why the Devils' game plan changed to do that last night. My overall concern was that lack of coherence in defence early in the game undoubtedly dented team confidence and probably forced the change in tactics.The frame of mind is as crucial as the skill and speed. Last season the communication between the players and defensive confidence always seemed to ensure that even the tighest of games were usually won at home. Some of the defence players looked too far forward against the Giants. G knew the importance of composure last season and it worked when he instilled it in the team. All credit to the hard work last night to fight back but you could feel panic and frustration at times.
Sounds from the press release today that G knows exactly what he needs the players to do. Let's look forward to Sunday - there is sure to be a difference!
Sounds from the press release today that G knows exactly what he needs the players to do. Let's look forward to Sunday - there is sure to be a difference!
I think dump and chase might be the best technique to use against the Giants. The Panthers switched to d&c in their game against them and it seemed to work. Surprisingly, the Giants defence isn't as big as I was expecting and they seemed reluctant, almost scared at times, to chase the puck into the corner.
When we play other teams though I would expect us to try to skate the puck into the zone and use our skill.
When we play other teams though I would expect us to try to skate the puck into the zone and use our skill.