New Arena
- Thread starter StevenBletsoe
- Start date
Thread starter
#163
Jeez, I only started this thread to crowbar in a classic Jaws quote. Didn't forsee the consternation it would generate.
Just when I thought it was safe to go back into the forum
Just when I thought it was safe to go back into the forum
Right chillee, I am going to respond to your points one by one. Hopefully you can do the same and then we might stop going round in circles:
Firstly, IAW has not taken 9 years to build. It has been far, far less.
Yes we have had to wait 9 years for a new ice venue to be built, but a lot has happened over that time. We had the potential project with Glamorgan CCC and their stadium upgrade. A new rink was going to be added in what was the car park, but the residents complained about the upgrade and won. Only to eventually lose when it was awarded the Ashes Test and the upgrade went ahead but without the ice rink.
As by then the Ice Rink project had moved on, the BBT had been built down the bay and the site of the permanent rink had been decided on behind the swimming pool. The tender went out to build the new rink, Planet Ice won. SORAC kicked off and convinced Cardiff Council to take it back off them. They then put out a new tender for the whole ISV so that it would be profitable, and Greenbank won. IIRC that was in early 2012? The next year was spent working on the design of the rink via discussions between SORAC, Greenbank and Cardiff CC. A year later we had the design that pretty much everyone was happy about and a year later planning permission etc was all granted.
So since the bid for IAW was won it has been less than 3 years and a bit over it by the time it will be completed.
I've re-read this a couple of times and still aren't sure what you are on about. The owner situation only changed this summer. Work on the rink had already begun. How would the ownership change have forced the rink to go ahead when it was already several months into being built?
The project has already been altered to make it more profitable after the PI tender nonsense. Even Ragan admitted the terms offered made it unfavourable to anyone.
So the Council changed the tender and instead of it just being for the Ice Rink, it was for the whole ISV. Ice Rink, Snow Box, Ski Slope, Housing, Hotel, Car Park, Bars, Restaurant etc. They were allowed to build some of the housing first to ensure the finances were in place to build the Ice Rink.
Everything else though had to wait, to ensure the rink was built and was given the attention that SORAC demanded.
No planning permission for the SkiSlope etc has been awarded because they are not allowed to until they have finished IAW. The Shops, Bars, Flats etc will be where they make their real money.
Once again I am unsure what you mean and would appreciate you expanding on this. Are you not realising that the owners of the Devils and the owners of IAW are two different companies? Do you really think the Ice Rink is not going ahead?
Based on what? You have criticised the viability of a 3,100 arena without any reasons to back your views up. Now you are saying you think we could fill a venue more than twice the size of the WNIR - which we rarely filled anyway. I know we are getting big crowds at the moment but we have still 'only' had two sell outs. I would rather play in a sold out 3,100 arena with a great atmosphere than see 3500 fans spread around a 6000 arena.
People have been suggesting that the Devils should be owned by Terry Matthews since the mid-90s when he built Celtic Manor. He doesn't like Ice Hockey and has no interest in owning an Ice Hockey team. If you're trying to pretend you knew something before us all you need to do better than that.
You also predicted that the ice rink wouldn't be built. Make of that what you want.
I have no idea how Americanism is related to this. To suggest you want the best for the Devils, fans and city is quite clearly not true. You want everyone to want the same as you.
The best for the City is a sports village with a variety of different sports that is available for use everyday by millions of people over a year. Not a 12,000 concert venue that is used 4 or 5 times a month. A twin-pad arena with public skating available every day was vital. Your arena wouldn't have had any public skating.
For the Cardiff Devils and their fans, a suitably sized arena where they are the main tenant is the best. Everyone can argue over the best capacity and we will probably never know who was right. But the bigger the arena gets, the more expensive it gets and the need for more concerts increases. You only need look at Belfast, Sheffield and Nottingham fans at how annoyed they get when their games are bumped to midweek so that an extra night of Disney on Ice can be fitted in. I know we moan about the Arena clubs bossing everyone around their schedule, but it doesn't always work out that way. We've profited in the past by being able to pick our home tie when we want because we can choose pretty much any date we want.
And we are going to keep that in IAW. We are going to have the best of both worlds with Arena-sized crowds and Arena-Quality surrounds - whilst also knowing we are their biggest draws and will almost always get first priority.
SORAC worked unbelievably hard to get what we wanted. Fans of other teams mocked us and said it wasn't possible. Criticised us for demanding a twin-pad when we were offered just one.
To claim these people are "Butt Munchers" or "bent over and rodgered" is very offensive. But more importantly, it is the complete opposite of the truth.
Firstly, IAW has not taken 9 years to build. It has been far, far less.
Yes we have had to wait 9 years for a new ice venue to be built, but a lot has happened over that time. We had the potential project with Glamorgan CCC and their stadium upgrade. A new rink was going to be added in what was the car park, but the residents complained about the upgrade and won. Only to eventually lose when it was awarded the Ashes Test and the upgrade went ahead but without the ice rink.
As by then the Ice Rink project had moved on, the BBT had been built down the bay and the site of the permanent rink had been decided on behind the swimming pool. The tender went out to build the new rink, Planet Ice won. SORAC kicked off and convinced Cardiff Council to take it back off them. They then put out a new tender for the whole ISV so that it would be profitable, and Greenbank won. IIRC that was in early 2012? The next year was spent working on the design of the rink via discussions between SORAC, Greenbank and Cardiff CC. A year later we had the design that pretty much everyone was happy about and a year later planning permission etc was all granted.
So since the bid for IAW was won it has been less than 3 years and a bit over it by the time it will be completed.
I've re-read this a couple of times and still aren't sure what you are on about. The owner situation only changed this summer. Work on the rink had already begun. How would the ownership change have forced the rink to go ahead when it was already several months into being built?
The project has already been altered to make it more profitable after the PI tender nonsense. Even Ragan admitted the terms offered made it unfavourable to anyone.
So the Council changed the tender and instead of it just being for the Ice Rink, it was for the whole ISV. Ice Rink, Snow Box, Ski Slope, Housing, Hotel, Car Park, Bars, Restaurant etc. They were allowed to build some of the housing first to ensure the finances were in place to build the Ice Rink.
Everything else though had to wait, to ensure the rink was built and was given the attention that SORAC demanded.
No planning permission for the SkiSlope etc has been awarded because they are not allowed to until they have finished IAW. The Shops, Bars, Flats etc will be where they make their real money.
Once again I am unsure what you mean and would appreciate you expanding on this. Are you not realising that the owners of the Devils and the owners of IAW are two different companies? Do you really think the Ice Rink is not going ahead?
Based on what? You have criticised the viability of a 3,100 arena without any reasons to back your views up. Now you are saying you think we could fill a venue more than twice the size of the WNIR - which we rarely filled anyway. I know we are getting big crowds at the moment but we have still 'only' had two sell outs. I would rather play in a sold out 3,100 arena with a great atmosphere than see 3500 fans spread around a 6000 arena.
People have been suggesting that the Devils should be owned by Terry Matthews since the mid-90s when he built Celtic Manor. He doesn't like Ice Hockey and has no interest in owning an Ice Hockey team. If you're trying to pretend you knew something before us all you need to do better than that.
You also predicted that the ice rink wouldn't be built. Make of that what you want.
I have no idea how Americanism is related to this. To suggest you want the best for the Devils, fans and city is quite clearly not true. You want everyone to want the same as you.
The best for the City is a sports village with a variety of different sports that is available for use everyday by millions of people over a year. Not a 12,000 concert venue that is used 4 or 5 times a month. A twin-pad arena with public skating available every day was vital. Your arena wouldn't have had any public skating.
For the Cardiff Devils and their fans, a suitably sized arena where they are the main tenant is the best. Everyone can argue over the best capacity and we will probably never know who was right. But the bigger the arena gets, the more expensive it gets and the need for more concerts increases. You only need look at Belfast, Sheffield and Nottingham fans at how annoyed they get when their games are bumped to midweek so that an extra night of Disney on Ice can be fitted in. I know we moan about the Arena clubs bossing everyone around their schedule, but it doesn't always work out that way. We've profited in the past by being able to pick our home tie when we want because we can choose pretty much any date we want.
And we are going to keep that in IAW. We are going to have the best of both worlds with Arena-sized crowds and Arena-Quality surrounds - whilst also knowing we are their biggest draws and will almost always get first priority.
SORAC worked unbelievably hard to get what we wanted. Fans of other teams mocked us and said it wasn't possible. Criticised us for demanding a twin-pad when we were offered just one.
To claim these people are "Butt Munchers" or "bent over and rodgered" is very offensive. But more importantly, it is the complete opposite of the truth.
WDSome people seem to think it's a trial, all points must provide evidence, I mean question my location, I respond & get hassle.
Finny try living by your own advice, if you disagree simply state so. Live with it. Get over your own ego, move on. All your points I'm aware of. Maybe peeps don't want this hassle or more likely, they just don't want in out there.
Finny try living by your own advice, if you disagree simply state so. Live with it. Get over your own ego, move on. All your points I'm aware of. Maybe peeps don't want this hassle or more likely, they just don't want in out there.
Finny.
WTF.Can you not comprehend anything. I never mentioned IAW took 9 yrs. Then you state what l wrote, are you low IQ. I have not mentioned IAW in the text l wrote. So how you came to that conclusion I can only assume my previous comments are likely.
Your second quote ref new owners and the build start. Your assuming the build could not have been reassigned, designed, changed. Until all the equipment has been placed inside and ice made it ain't a friggin ice rink.
Your second quote.
You actually believe all that can be provided by the sale of housing. The hotelier has pulled out, the tower has shops, bars etc planned. How many can the bay area sustain, there is no road schemes planned for the increase in an all ready congested zone. Have you not realised people need to make a profit, even from house building. The planning has not been given or started building because there are no plans to build it, there won't be the money.
Your third quote.
Ofcourse l'm aware IAW are not the same, I'll put it simple if you buy a car with no engine, you ain't going anywhere. Simple enough, no icy, no likey. IAW makey no money, no icy. It maybe built, probably I hope so. Will it remain.
Your fourth quote (I think)
It's a twin pad, more running costs. Can we attract ice activities in sufficient numbers, plus other activities. Will 3100 make enough to cover all costs plus. I don't believe Todd's ambition stops at managing Cardiff Devils. The new owners also, in my opinion want a successful team in a successful league. It's not a negative it all positive, but Devils was choice because of situation not because they loved Cardiff or the Devils, any team was possible if right, having strong passionate fans is a bonus with value.
Your fifth quote.
Timing. At the time the ice plan was delicate. Still is, a little more positive than then.
Your seventh quote.
Americanism, that was a poke at someone else reading this. What l want is the best, sorry I'm arrogant and a twat, move on. The Olympic Village as it was sold originally, then that changed. Have you seen Liverpools planned ice arena. As for millions of visitors per yr, great, amazing, although the lack of planned parking, resident permission and increase in road network would piss a lot of people off. Capacity yup nobody really knows, but for all the moans to attract visitors everyday you have to have events. Bars, restaurants and shopping cannot survive on one event of Devils fans, will the daily skate clients go shopping, eating etc etc in numbers, so far from what I've heard few businesses are interested. When I'm insulted, I tend to ignore it to a point, but when people continue to drag a discussion into the gutter, it's inevitable, maybe that's there intention.
WTF.Can you not comprehend anything. I never mentioned IAW took 9 yrs. Then you state what l wrote, are you low IQ. I have not mentioned IAW in the text l wrote. So how you came to that conclusion I can only assume my previous comments are likely.
Your second quote ref new owners and the build start. Your assuming the build could not have been reassigned, designed, changed. Until all the equipment has been placed inside and ice made it ain't a friggin ice rink.
Your second quote.
You actually believe all that can be provided by the sale of housing. The hotelier has pulled out, the tower has shops, bars etc planned. How many can the bay area sustain, there is no road schemes planned for the increase in an all ready congested zone. Have you not realised people need to make a profit, even from house building. The planning has not been given or started building because there are no plans to build it, there won't be the money.
Your third quote.
Ofcourse l'm aware IAW are not the same, I'll put it simple if you buy a car with no engine, you ain't going anywhere. Simple enough, no icy, no likey. IAW makey no money, no icy. It maybe built, probably I hope so. Will it remain.
Your fourth quote (I think)
It's a twin pad, more running costs. Can we attract ice activities in sufficient numbers, plus other activities. Will 3100 make enough to cover all costs plus. I don't believe Todd's ambition stops at managing Cardiff Devils. The new owners also, in my opinion want a successful team in a successful league. It's not a negative it all positive, but Devils was choice because of situation not because they loved Cardiff or the Devils, any team was possible if right, having strong passionate fans is a bonus with value.
Your fifth quote.
Timing. At the time the ice plan was delicate. Still is, a little more positive than then.
Your seventh quote.
Americanism, that was a poke at someone else reading this. What l want is the best, sorry I'm arrogant and a twat, move on. The Olympic Village as it was sold originally, then that changed. Have you seen Liverpools planned ice arena. As for millions of visitors per yr, great, amazing, although the lack of planned parking, resident permission and increase in road network would piss a lot of people off. Capacity yup nobody really knows, but for all the moans to attract visitors everyday you have to have events. Bars, restaurants and shopping cannot survive on one event of Devils fans, will the daily skate clients go shopping, eating etc etc in numbers, so far from what I've heard few businesses are interested. When I'm insulted, I tend to ignore it to a point, but when people continue to drag a discussion into the gutter, it's inevitable, maybe that's there intention.
