I also believe Scott is fully entitled to give his version of events and defend himself from the various rumours found on this forum. And I would like to take this opportunity to publicly support Scott and thank him for his professionalism during last season, and his conduct in the face of the diabolically behaviour by the management. I wish Scott every success in the future and hope he maybe able to complete his University course one day..
Just in case you didnt hear about Romfo!
- Thread starter froromer
- Start date
I believe that all other players who have studied at Cardiff Business School did so for two years. If Scott was studying for one year, that would explain why his course continued until September.
Whether the club is at fault or not, and I have no reason to doubt Scott's word, they should 'do the decent thing' and help him finish his studies and get the qualification he has worked so hard for.
As I stated at the time when Matt posted on Facebook, if you had been treated badly by your employer or any organisation, wouldn't you want to tell everyone? I certainly would; it may not be professional but it is human nature.
Good luck Scott, I really hope you get to finish your studies and that this experience doesn't colour your opinion of Wales or the people too much. Thank you for continuing to act so professionally during what was obviously a very difficult time for you.
Whether the club is at fault or not, and I have no reason to doubt Scott's word, they should 'do the decent thing' and help him finish his studies and get the qualification he has worked so hard for.
As I stated at the time when Matt posted on Facebook, if you had been treated badly by your employer or any organisation, wouldn't you want to tell everyone? I certainly would; it may not be professional but it is human nature.
Good luck Scott, I really hope you get to finish your studies and that this experience doesn't colour your opinion of Wales or the people too much. Thank you for continuing to act so professionally during what was obviously a very difficult time for you.
Lets hope that this season's players don't have the same issue as I believe some or all of them may be completing their studies in 1 year which means they will need a Visa until September as well.
Apart from the obvious impact poor Visa control has on a player like Scott, the club could find itself in a whole lot of hot water with imigration if they continue to issue incorrrect Visas and just keep player here beyond their legal time. The last thing any of us want is for our license for import players to be withdrawn.
Fingers crossed Gerad (or whoever is now in charge of this process) is a little more familiar with the process this season and will get it right for everyone's sake.
If Scott needs to return to the UK to complete his studies I think he'll need to apply for a student visa now and maybe some of our faithful sponsors could help out with accommodation for him while he's here.
Apart from the obvious impact poor Visa control has on a player like Scott, the club could find itself in a whole lot of hot water with imigration if they continue to issue incorrrect Visas and just keep player here beyond their legal time. The last thing any of us want is for our license for import players to be withdrawn.
Fingers crossed Gerad (or whoever is now in charge of this process) is a little more familiar with the process this season and will get it right for everyone's sake.
If Scott needs to return to the UK to complete his studies I think he'll need to apply for a student visa now and maybe some of our faithful sponsors could help out with accommodation for him while he's here.
Reading stuff like this and some of the rumours from Sheffield, it makes you realise why decent players don't want to come to the UK. The ice hockey community is a pretty small one so horror stories like this can't help future recruitment of players to this country. Hopefully the new Devils Org will do something to help right the wrong but sadly the precedent from other owners seems to be make a mess and then walk away like nothing has happened.
Very good point. Ice Hockey in this country still has a very amateur feel to it. If we are telling the truth, all the "good things" that clubs start doing would be just something we expect in other walks of life.
We are moving in the right direction, but we need to hold people to account. Brings me back to my big gripe - we need the media to start challenging the clubs over issues. Actually make them sweat. Even a 1st division owner would have been in the national press answering stern questions if events similar to Sheffield had taken place in football.
It would be nice to see Terry go after the club, and ask some questions that make the club uncomfortable. If not over Romfo, then certainly over Poppy Gate.
Every time the club drops a clanger, or seems to drop one, questions should be asked, stories run and answers given - if only to make the club think twice about their actions in future.
As someone said on a different thread, for evil to prevail you only need good men to do nothing. You could say something similar about management practices.
We are moving in the right direction, but we need to hold people to account. Brings me back to my big gripe - we need the media to start challenging the clubs over issues. Actually make them sweat. Even a 1st division owner would have been in the national press answering stern questions if events similar to Sheffield had taken place in football.
It would be nice to see Terry go after the club, and ask some questions that make the club uncomfortable. If not over Romfo, then certainly over Poppy Gate.
Every time the club drops a clanger, or seems to drop one, questions should be asked, stories run and answers given - if only to make the club think twice about their actions in future.
As someone said on a different thread, for evil to prevail you only need good men to do nothing. You could say something similar about management practices.
One thing tafter reading Scotts reply concerns me a little...in his reply he states (And i have n reason to dsbelieve him) that imports are asked to act illegally by staying in the country after their visa's run out. Either Scott needs to have cast iron proof that this is asked of imports or the Devils organisation nees to get their act in order and sort out visa's correctly because if immigratio find out (If it is true) the club can be in a hell of a lot of trouble.....or if immigratio get involved and its not true the club could go after Scott for slander.
Before i get jumped on, i have no idea which one is correct and to be frank dont care.
To all the people who think the club acted 'dispicably' and people who are disgusted with the Devils in their treatment over Scott...will you still be going to games ? (geniune question)
Before i get jumped on, i have no idea which one is correct and to be frank dont care.
To all the people who think the club acted 'dispicably' and people who are disgusted with the Devils in their treatment over Scott...will you still be going to games ? (geniune question)
Whilst we all want our players to be treated well, in the long run it would be the quality of the ice hockey team that suffers. If the Devils were forced to extend visas, it costs them more money which is either passed onto the fans as ticket prices or for example, the number of players on uni deals would be reduced.
It would be interesting to know how aware the Cardiff Business School are of the visas that the Devils issue to their players considering they are a sponsor of the club.
It would be interesting to know how aware the Cardiff Business School are of the visas that the Devils issue to their players considering they are a sponsor of the club.
But surely in signing a contract with Romfo, they made an agreement to put him ALL the way through his course and not crap on him halfway through. The club should know from the outset how long a course runs and so therefore, how long the player requires the visa for and therefore, how much it would cost them to make the appropriate arrangements.
I doubt very much that it came as a surprise to anyone that Romfo's course meant he needed to be in the UK until June. But somehow, no one thought about how they would arrange his visa come April/May when it expired. You would think this kind of basic administration would be sorted in the off season/when the players are first signed and are sorting out their visas. If they did think about it before it all happened, then they wouldnt be unexpectedly having to fork out money for extra visas, like they claim they didnt want to do with Romfo.
Do they perhaps need to create a new position within the club? "Budget Manager" ? None of the current lot seem to be able to get their heads around it.
My shock is, not just the Devils, but all the hockey teams' non plussed attitude at dropping someone like they're a chess piece with an unsightly chip in them. Contracts are supposed to be contracts and they all put pen to paper for a reason. If they mean nothing, why bother signing contracts in the first place?
I feel so genuinely sorry for the guys who are left in the lurch like this. The teams promise them things like courses/education, jobs for partners, accommodation and when it suits the clubs and they think they can't afford it (because they fancy a chance of player, as with Romfo, not due to "financial issues") they just cut ties and, as already said, they walk away and pretend nothing has happened.
The players have little comeback because they are one person against an organisation/club. The fans are in uproar about rumours, which only get worse because they are not dispelled or confirmed by any media announcements from the clubs.
As Stub says, there would be uproar in football or rugby. Why is ice hockey shoved under the carpet? The clubs make the rules and change them to suit themselves (just like the British ref'ing, eh?) but no one challenges them.
I note there has been no announcement from the club as yet. And I doubt there will be until someone turns up on their doorstep with a notebook and voice recorder asking questions. I can well imagine them, in their little offices, sitting around tables having conversations a little like this...
"Oh man, did you see that post Romfo put on the Inferno?!"
"I know, he's really screwed us now"
"What shall we do/say? I mean, we can't just let him say things like that about us! People will hate the club and take the players side"
"Just lie low, fellas. We need to keep schtum about all this until someone asks us. Keep it quiet and pretend its all ok, like we normally do. It'll all blow over in a week and everyone will have forgotten all about Romfo"
"Good idea boss! Lets just keep quiet, not give the fans any truths and they will forget all about it. No one ever complains or asks questions anyway so we wont have to answer questions or fork out more money"
You get the gist. etc etc.
I agree with everything in your post, apart from this.
The standard contracts signed over here have a 2 week notice clause built in. It cuts both ways, either party can give two weeks notice and ties are then cut.
Admittedly, there is the duty of care argument here. When you sign a player on a uni deal, then is an almost implicit duty to keep a player on until the end of their course...but how far should that go? If the player is truly awful, then should we be forced to keep them on?
Overall, the Romfo treatment was poor - for whatever reason. I don't think he was cut for budget reasons, rather to allow action to be seen to be taken after a poor run of results.
The standard contracts signed over here have a 2 week notice clause built in. It cuts both ways, either party can give two weeks notice and ties are then cut.
Admittedly, there is the duty of care argument here. When you sign a player on a uni deal, then is an almost implicit duty to keep a player on until the end of their course...but how far should that go? If the player is truly awful, then should we be forced to keep them on?
Overall, the Romfo treatment was poor - for whatever reason. I don't think he was cut for budget reasons, rather to allow action to be seen to be taken after a poor run of results.
So say Sam smith makes a blistering start to the campaign and gets offered a AHL contract and goes you wouldnt wish him well?
Plenty of players have left us in the Lurch (Jason Ruff anyone?) or guys like Jeff Ulmer who went off to make mountains of money in Finland. Whats so bad about the club bringing in better players than the ones we have?
I think its more complicated than many people are making out and the club may not have had all the responsibility that is being implied and I agree with the basis of what The Stub has written above.
The club cut Romfo initially (I believed), to address a run of bad form. Many fans were on his back at this point although he had been improving and most people thought it was a shame he had to go, but I had exactly the same question in my mind as Stub has asked "What if he had been truly awful" or "What if one of this years Uni deal players is truly awful", or even "what would have happened if the club had not reemployed him at Christmas?"
Would we have simpathised so much if he had been less of a nice guy?
His contact would have (I presume) had the 2 weeks notice clause in it, so he could hsve been left without an employer in January.
How would this have affected his Visa status? etc etc etc.
The club cut Romfo initially (I believed), to address a run of bad form. Many fans were on his back at this point although he had been improving and most people thought it was a shame he had to go, but I had exactly the same question in my mind as Stub has asked "What if he had been truly awful" or "What if one of this years Uni deal players is truly awful", or even "what would have happened if the club had not reemployed him at Christmas?"
Would we have simpathised so much if he had been less of a nice guy?
His contact would have (I presume) had the 2 weeks notice clause in it, so he could hsve been left without an employer in January.
How would this have affected his Visa status? etc etc etc.
I can only imagine that he would have had to apply for a student visa, and be a full time student until the end of his course. Of course, there is an issue here with money - but I think a student visa allows for limited employment.
As he is in the country, already has a work visa, I would have hoped that transfer to a student visa would have been quick.
Random jump - £199 is the application fee for a student visa, and no ongoing fees. That is hardly a huge cost, and something that can be budgeted for when contracts are signed.
Edit - and apparently the turn around for Canadian student visas is within 15 days. Not too bad all told.
As he is in the country, already has a work visa, I would have hoped that transfer to a student visa would have been quick.
Random jump - £199 is the application fee for a student visa, and no ongoing fees. That is hardly a huge cost, and something that can be budgeted for when contracts are signed.
Edit - and apparently the turn around for Canadian student visas is within 15 days. Not too bad all told.
Yeah, this is kinda what I was getting at.
Not at all. It does work both ways. But the signing of the contract is just as much about the duty of care, as Stub put it, and the individual AND the clubs responsibilities to each other. In terms of moving onwards, upwards or downwards, on an employment basis, then notice periods and signed contracts are all fair play. Just like when any of us hands in an employment resignation to move onto a new job.
However, when a club offers a player a position in conjunction with a Uni course, they shouldnt be dropping them 2 months before the end of the course. IF they are a shocking player, there should be more discussion around what to do, whether they could drop to a lower league team locally to be able to continue their course. Even anywhere else in the UK could be a possibility. A couple, even 6 months into a 2 year course and dropping them could be acceptable - but 2 months before he is due to finish?! Thats just being a total arse!!
Not at all. It does work both ways. But the signing of the contract is just as much about the duty of care, as Stub put it, and the individual AND the clubs responsibilities to each other. In terms of moving onwards, upwards or downwards, on an employment basis, then notice periods and signed contracts are all fair play. Just like when any of us hands in an employment resignation to move onto a new job.
However, when a club offers a player a position in conjunction with a Uni course, they shouldnt be dropping them 2 months before the end of the course. IF they are a shocking player, there should be more discussion around what to do, whether they could drop to a lower league team locally to be able to continue their course. Even anywhere else in the UK could be a possibility. A couple, even 6 months into a 2 year course and dropping them could be acceptable - but 2 months before he is due to finish?! Thats just being a total arse!!
Your right - I wonder if the Devils Organization doesn't feel the do right by Romfo, work with the Uni administration to uphold the "petition" to let Romfo finish his studies in the states. I hear he only has 3 classes to complete and his thesis. He's a pretty smart guy - Biomed undgergrad. Shouldn't the Uni and the Devils organization put there heads together and set it right. Heard Romfo has a petition in for Interruption of studies and for completing in the states - where's the club??? Lots of classes are taken over the internet - why can't he??? - can't the Devils organization work with the Uni to settle the petition and do right by Romfo????? Would save him the huge expense of rent, visa and travel. Devils could right the wrong with little expense and do right by Romfo - with little cost to the organization. In the end wouldn't the new organization benefit by righting the wrong with little investment
Dvlswin; You've made some pretty good suggestions in your posts, as have others. However, maybe the club are doing something behind the scenes that we don't know about yet ? I believe in giving everyone a fair chance, Romfo has stated his case, lets see if the club make a statement of some kind regarding this matter. I think if they have anything to say, they should do so as early as possible in order to put everyone's mind at rest eh ?
Oh yes, I should add, the silence is 'deafening' from those posters who originally were making derogatory remarks against Romfo despite not hearing his side of the story! That's why until the club make a statement I can't decide who is to blame for his situation ( although personally, I have a good idea)
Oh yes, I should add, the silence is 'deafening' from those posters who originally were making derogatory remarks against Romfo despite not hearing his side of the story! That's why until the club make a statement I can't decide who is to blame for his situation ( although personally, I have a good idea)
I see no-one has answered this.
The hypocrisy on here is laughable or do people have no principles anymore or do people only apply their principles when it doesnt interfere with their own enjoyment ?
Out of principle i will not go to Sheffield for any game/20-20 tournament because of their treatment of Voth . Out of princple i will not go to a BP garage because of their total disregard of people and wildlife during the 'leak'. There is also a website (Non-hockey) i will never ever go on due to the administrators disgusting treatment of a very sensitive issue.
So, posters who have called the club disgusting/ their actions deispicable towards Scott / the club should be ashamed of themselves ...are you still willing to pay them your hard earned cash ?
I know some posters will think i am being trivial but if i believe in something so strongly i will make a stand...will you ?
The hypocrisy on here is laughable or do people have no principles anymore or do people only apply their principles when it doesnt interfere with their own enjoyment ?
Out of principle i will not go to Sheffield for any game/20-20 tournament because of their treatment of Voth . Out of princple i will not go to a BP garage because of their total disregard of people and wildlife during the 'leak'. There is also a website (Non-hockey) i will never ever go on due to the administrators disgusting treatment of a very sensitive issue.
So, posters who have called the club disgusting/ their actions deispicable towards Scott / the club should be ashamed of themselves ...are you still willing to pay them your hard earned cash ?
I know some posters will think i am being trivial but if i believe in something so strongly i will make a stand...will you ?