Give Brent a chance

[Finny]

Regarding good performances and bad results, the 1st and 3rd Belfast games spring to mind. The first of which LaCosta was injured for and Belfast ran away with it in the 3rd, and the other we battered them but Murphy was outstanding.

Also, someone complained that the only European G signed was Petricko. He also signed Likit Andersson and Lukas Komarek.

 

[Wannabe2]

+2

 

[Gazza272]

Regarding good performances and bad results, the 1st and 3rd Belfast games spring to mind. The first of which LaCosta was injured for and Belfast ran away with it in the 3rd, and the other we battered them but Murphy was outstanding.

Also, someone complained that the only European G signed was Petricko. He also signed Likit Andersson and Lukas Komarek.

Lukas Komarek was signed By Patterson and coached by G when he took over.

 

[Gazza272]

PR publicly stated that he is sorry he did not sack G sooner. There have been rumblings how bad things have been the past seasons before all this came to ahead. This should give people an idea how that coach has been treated in the back ground. The hockey community is a close knit one. The out cry from players past, the comments from players about Pope. Just who is going to want to come to Cardiff as a coach or a player for that matter of fact? Is this why we have been unable to recruit a coach for the remainder of this season, that was announced as the plan not so long ago remember? How many of the current players are we going to retain beyond this season? How will the recruiting go next year? We might actually be stuck with Brent or as I stated before Brent will likely put on his puppeteers hat. I feel some are looking very short term as to what has gone on at the Devils in recent times . Players, Owners, Coaches and Fans are all transient in this sport. There comes a time when the good and the bad must come to an end but right now when I look to the future it depresses me because the I can not see a point past the bad times. The way things are I see another bankruptcy or a team that will struggle to compete at EPL level on the cards.

I don't understand your concern about players not wanting to come here considering 3 players have been signed since all of this unfolded? We always get this concern about players not wanting to play here when a crisis happens but it never materializes.

Also I don't believe the club have ever said they wanted a coach for this season. More they wanted to sign someone this season in time for next year. I think they have always been clear that Brent is in charge until the end of this one. There was at one stage a hint they had asked Faulkner to do it instead of Brent until the end of this season but he declined, probably out of respect for G.

 

[toy_car_uk]

I don't understand your concern about players not wanting to come here considering 3 players have been signed since all of this unfolded? We always get this concern about players not wanting to play here when a crisis happens but it never materializes.

Kurka, had a big fat pay cheque dangled in front of him. Do you think we can afford to sign an entire team this way?

Liimatainen, looks to be carrying a reoccurring injury on a one month contract. Is this Liimatainens request or the clubs?

Cook, recruited the club with a desire to prove him self and we where in a desperate situation. He had never completed a professional game prior to becoming a Devil. Its still early days for Cook but I like what I see but I would not want to rely on this method of recruiting to build a team.

Also I don't believe the club have ever said they wanted a coach for this season. More they wanted to sign someone this season in time for next year. I think they have always been clear that Brent is in charge until the end of this one. There was at one stage a hint they had asked Faulkner to do it instead of Brent until the end of this season but he declined, probably out of respect for G.

Pretty sure Pope or Ragan at one point early on stated they were looking for a replacement for the remainder of this season due to Popes other commitments.

 

[willpower]

Brent gets a lot of negative comments on here and yes he does like the sound of his own voice ....but, I'll tell you this, he has worked his butt off for the DCF often working unsociable hours and is invariably the ultimate professional. The time and expertise that he has put into childrens development has been invaluable and although they may try, none of the other coaches involved in the DCF come anywhere near him . He is approachable, experienced, very knowledgable and well respected and even if he doesn't cut the mustard as an EIHL coach this club bloody needs him, and no ...Im not related to him .

 

[miriam]

Brent gets a lot of negative comments on here and yes he does like the sound of his own voice ....but, I'll tell you this, he has worked his butt off for the DCF often working unsociable hours and is invariably the ultimate professional. The time and expertise that he has put into childrens development has been invaluable and although they may try, none of the other coaches involved in the DCF come anywhere near him . He is approachable, experienced, very knowledgable and well respected and even if he doesn't cut the mustard as an EIHL coach this club bloody needs him, and no ...Im not related to him .

I,m so glad this has been posted! I was beginning to wonder if there were two Brent Popes - the one talked about on this forum lately, and the one I have met a few times!
Just because you are for Adams, doesn,t mean you have to be against Pope.
For me Adams was a great player to watch. Absolutely loved to see him play. As a coach, I very much admired his dignity when things went wrong for us. The whole debacle that was "that" match against Blaze beginning of last season comes immediately to mind. But there have been many other occasions too. A certain current Sheffield coach could learn something from him!!!!
Having said that, I found myself at the end of last season, just waiting for the season to end so that we could make a new start in September. In 20 yrs, the first time I haven't dreaded April arriving.
We should have been in our new rink years ago. Perhaps we wouldn't be in this position now.

 

[toy_car_uk]

Brent gets a lot of negative comments on here and yes he does like the sound of his own voice ....but, I'll tell you this, he has worked his butt off for the DCF often working unsociable hours and is invariably the ultimate professional. The time and expertise that he has put into childrens development has been invaluable and although they may try, none of the other coaches involved in the DCF come anywhere near him . He is approachable, experienced, very knowledgable and well respected and even if he doesn't cut the mustard as an EIHL coach this club bloody needs him, and no ...Im not related to him .

Its not just on here he gets negative comments, not is it just since he took on the coaching job either. As for him being respected, just take look at what players think of him.

Devin DiDiomete ‏@deeds2424 30 Oct
What a mess in Cardiff I wouldn't let Pope run my fantasy hockey team let alone a pro team. Feeling for G. He's been nothing but loyal to CD

Mike Prpich ‏@Pirps19 31 Oct
So Brent Pope finally slithers his way into coaching the Devils? Pretty sure my 4 year old has more hockey sense then that bald snake.

adam calder ‏@calds25 1 Nov
@Simmsey @Pirps19 yeah liked him!(G) No way to treat any guy especially one that's left it out there for them! But pope in the back door?? Rat!

the italic G above has been put in by me to make the context clear

That is just some of the cleaner tweets I have seen around the time it was announced Pope would be taking on the role of Coach. It worries me as the hockey world is a close knit one, I think what has happened will affect us in the coming seasons even into the new rink.

 

[jayemm]

Thing is....

The more I look at all toy-car-uk's posts the more I begin to wonder: "What has Pope done to offend this guy, personally?" because it looks personal not professional to me. Scouring the Twiitersphere for anti-Pope comments, for example; this is nothing to do with hockey; this is a character assassination vendetta!

And, BTW, you say "look what the players think..." Which of those (3) quotes is from the holder of a current Devils players contract?

All I know for sure is that the Hockey and the atmosphere has been better in November/December than in September/October. I think that best shows what the players think.

 

[august04]

And, BTW, you say "look what the players think..." Which of those (3) quotes is from the holder of a current Devils players contract?

Players currently employed by the Devils are hardly going to slag off the Devils MD/coach while still in employment are they! WD
I suppose we'll get a better idea of who thinks what when they no longer play for the Devils.

 

[Ocko]

Adam Calder with zero experience with the Devils and Pope.

Devin Didiomete who left the club under a cloud because of an off ice issue with the management that he brought on himself.

Mike Prpich also left the club under a cloud because of an off ice incident.

Clutching at straws with these references Toy Car. I wouldn't trust anyone of these to attempt to put the devils in anything other than a bad light.

Other than make a good job of the DCF, a good job of turning around the current Devils team and having a hand in the dismissal of an under-performing coach. What has Brent done that is so wrong? I get a few of the PR issues even if I think there is an exaggeration or people being a bit too over emotional and the problems with Simon Hodgkinson but I can't see what BP has done that is so bad.

 

[KaneDevils]

Like I asked days ago, "why the hatred"? Still nobody has really answered. He seems to have more enemies than Ragan!

Brent might flick bogeys at old ladies, he might swear in front of puppies, he may even fart at the dinner table.
As long as he tries to win hockey matches and entertain the fans, who gives a toss?

 

[BostonBart22]

+1

 

[toy_car_uk]

Thing is....

The more I look at all toy-car-uk's posts the more I begin to wonder: "What has Pope done to offend this guy, personally?" because it looks personal not professional to me. Scouring the Twiitersphere for anti-Pope comments, for example; this is nothing to do with hockey; this is a character assassination vendetta!

If you want to enter into debate, by all means I am open to it. But please take on my points and not me. I have a deep passion for the Devils so from that point of view it is personal. Professionally I have, nor have I ever had anything to do with the Devils (unless you count being a shirt sponsor.), the quick check of twitter I did was to add reason to my point of why I hold the concerns and to counter the point about Brent holding respect, which he my well do within some circles but it is clear he does not in others. It is not a vendetta. The topic of this thread is about giving Pope a chance as coach going forward. Something I don't believe is in the best interest of the club.

All I know for sure is that the Hockey and the atmosphere has been better in November/December than in September/October. I think that best shows what the players think.

It has been covered more than enough in my previous posts as to why I believe the game has improved.

Like I asked days ago, "why the hatred"? Still nobody has really answered. He seems to have more enemies than Ragan!

Don't confuse my passion for wanting the best for the Devils as hatred for Brent Pope, if you can you quote to me the hatred you believe I have shown I will try to explain my point another way.

 

[toy_car_uk]

Adam Calder with zero experience with the Devils and Pope.

and you consider that to be a good point? how often have we heard signings state feed back from people they know have played over here?

Devin Didiomete who left the club under a cloud because of an off ice issue with the management that he brought on himself.

So what is the official release by the club abount then?
http://www.cardiffdevils.com/news/devil ... r-changes/

"Following the game on Saturday the Devils received the release request of #24 Devin Didiomete, with the player citing personal reasons."

Mike Prpich also left the club under a cloud because of an off ice incident.

Clutching at straws with these references Toy Car. I wouldn't trust anyone of these to attempt to put the devils in anything other than a bad light.

If you take time to read the time lines of the above players on twitter you might be surprised just what the have said about the city and the club.

Other than make a good job of the DCF, a good job of turning around the current Devils team and having a hand in the dismissal of an under-performing coach.

My opinion on the upturn in performance has been stated, with reasoning behind my opinions. By associating the dismissal of G with the good job at the DCF and your opinion of turning the team around are you saying the dismissal of G was well handled?

What has Brent done that is so wrong? I get a few of the PR issues even if I think there is an exaggeration or people being a bit too over emotional and the problems with Simon Hodgkinson but I can't see what BP has done that is so bad.

Brent is the hockey man in the management team, he failed to put the case successfully to Ragan why the path they chose to take at the time they took it would be detrimental to the club and the business both short term and long term. I hope I am proven wrong about the latter, but nobody contributing to this discussion is offering anything that can settle my thoughts. What problems with Simon Hodgkinson, does it have any bearing on Pope as coach?

 

[Sheincar]

I thought the problems with Hodgkinson related to his dealings with sponsors & nothing to do with the team/coach.

 

[Mooney#16]

Just to begin with I'm on neither side of the fence and am a hockey man first and Devils fan ipart time. Whether people want to admit it or not alot of bile has been spoken about Brent and alot of it is based on rumour, supposition and hear say. The fact is you cannot deny the man is qualified on paper to do the job. He has all the pieces of paper. He has served an apprenticeship within junior hockey and is an ex player of some quality having been drafted to the NHL and played in the IHL, AHL and ISL winning championships along the way. Those are facts not topic for debate to be demeaned.

Now I'm not saying that corresponds to being any good at the job but again that is all supposition. At this stage you genuinely have no way of knowing if he can coach at this level ot not.

The fact is and not many have said otherwise the way G was treated was inexcusable. He wasn't in my opinion given the opportunity he deserved to move to the bench and was then manipulated out of the door very unprofessionally. But be under no illusions. G was not a coaching mastermind himself be it tactics or recruitment. It is romantic to think otherwise. He was however still young in his coaching career and more importatantly learning the trade. Would he have improved moving to the bench. I think so. Will he improve moving to another club coaching and not playing. Almost definately.

But Ragan and Pope had no right to treat G how they did but they did have every right to hold him to account and if they didn't like what they saw replace him. Thats the rub of the green in any vocational walk of life so no reason hockey should be any different. Ragan at the end of the day has £ signs behind his opinion so everyone just has to live with the fact his carries more weight no matter how wrong it might be.

But going forward I would argue those being highly out spoken under the umbrella of passion for the club are underestimating the impact there actions also have on securing the Devils future. Will the Devils struggle to get players going forward. No chance. Will they retain current guys. Maybe not but new guys without baggage and political agenda will be more than happy to play here. They will know no different. These are pros with 10 year careers maybe. You don't turn down pay cheques. As far as I can tell and as long as it continues, the way the LaCosta injury has been handled would do more to secure a players signature than any coaching change mid season. Was it a shambolic and damaging time for the Devils. Yes. Are they coming out of it in better or worse state. Only time will give you the true answer to that question not passionate debate in its immediate aftermath.

 

[toy_car_uk]

Just to begin with I'm on neither side of the fence and am a hockey man first and Devils fan ipart time. Whether people want to admit it or not alot of bile has been spoken about Brent and alot of it is based on rumour, supposition and hear say. The fact is you cannot deny the man is qualified on paper to do the job. He has all the pieces of paper. He has served an apprenticeship within junior hockey and is an ex player of some quality having been drafted to the NHL and played in the IHL, AHL and ISL winning championships along the way. Those are facts not topic for debate to be demeaned.

I would agree a lot of on rumour, supposition and hear say surround Brent Pope. with little evidence to back it up. That is a whole other subject, one thing I have steered clear of. I would say is mud sticks regardless of if it is just or not.

Darnel and Hicks are qualified to officiate and experienced, they even get invited to IIHF games. Do we debate standards of officiating in this league, particularly regarding the above or do we say everything is rosy?

Now I'm not saying that corresponds to being any good at the job but again that is all supposition. At this stage you genuinely have no way of knowing if he can coach at this level ot not.

I would say not, leaving the team during season to do another job is going to affect your ability to coach. Being the MD during the off season and what that entails securing sponsorship, driving season ticket sales etc. is going to impact his ability to carry out a coaching role during that time.

The fact is and not many have said otherwise the way G was treated was inexcusable. He wasn't in my opinion given the opportunity he deserved to move to the bench and was then manipulated out of the door very unprofessionally.

Not to mention the lack of foresight of what the fallout would be removing the coach part way through a season.

But be under no illusions. G was not a coaching mastermind himself be it tactics or recruitment. It is romantic to think otherwise. He was however still young in his coaching career and more importatantly learning the trade. Would he have improved moving to the bench. I think so. Will he improve moving to another club coaching and not playing. Almost definately.

But Ragan and Pope had no right to treat G how they did but they did have every right to hold him to account and if they didn't like what they saw replace him. Thats the rub of the green in any vocational walk of life so no reason hockey should be any different.

Completely agree, but would add with G the team punched above its weight under very challenging conditions.

Ragan at the end of the day has £ signs behind his opinion so everyone just has to live with the fact his carries more weight no matter how wrong it might be.

Everyone of us puts time and money into the Devils, weather it be the casual fan that turns up 2 or 3 times a year, the nutter that drives thousands of miles each season, the folks that give up time to run RAT the guys that run SOHB. While no doubt Ragan puts more in that anyone else that doesn't mean we should sit in silence or agree implicitly when the ENL is about to sent to its grave, the structure of SOHB is going to be changed. Or any other change that will impact the organisation such as having the MD be the Coach going forward. If we do there is a danger that the Devils will be paraded in the emperors new clothes.

But going forward I would argue those being highly out spoken under the umbrella of passion for the club are underestimating the impact there actions also have on securing the Devils future.Will the Devils struggle to get players going forward. No chance. Will they retain current guys. Maybe not but new guys without baggage and political agenda will be more than happy to play here. They will know no different. These are pros with 10 year careers maybe. You don't turn down pay cheques. As far as I can tell and as long as it continues, the way the LaCosta injury has been handled would do more to secure a players signature than any coaching change mid season. Was it a shambolic and damaging time for the Devils. Yes. Are they coming out of it in better or worse state. Only time will give you the true answer to that question not passionate debate in its immediate aftermath.

I would argue it is better to get this out in the open now, than have to drag it up again in 6, 12 18 months time. Its not if we will get players under Pope that bothers me, its what players we get. You question if we will come through this in a better or worse state, and your opinion right now is only time will tell. Is it so wrong to speak up now to encourage debate and hopefully ensure outcome will be a positive one?
The way we have stood by injured players in both this and seasons past under Ragans ownership has impressed me, long may it continue. I also be quite happy for DLC to take a coaching role for the D & NM beyond this season working with the likes of Ben Bowns and Adam Goss but that is a whole other subject and I doubt if we would have the finances and influence to follow that through.

 

[toy_car_uk]

Would also add, what the Devils need right now as a new Coach is some one that is going to unite the fans. Some one that has been a club/league legend perhaps.

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

Would also add, what the Devils need right now as a new Coach is some one that is going to unite the fans. Some one that has been a club/league legend perhaps.

Someone who is given a budget for players and equipment and sticks to it without interference from Club management, Although it would need a strong character to front up to the terrible two.

I hope we can get a coach who can stick to his plan and cares for the club and its history, and not just a guy who just needs a job and becomes a puppet for the muppets

Toy Car and Mooney, you should know better than trying to start sensible debate on here :lol: :lol: