Devils vs Vipers, Sat 04th 7.00pm. Chat/Updates

[Gazza272]

[
I think Adams has an awful lot to prove still as a coach. That trophy was the Knock Out Cup Gazza, hardly ranks up there as our greatest achievement. I might be wrong but wasn't that with the team that Patterson recruited? .

Your right August G has a way to go before we can talk about him as a well rounded coach, but what im saying is he has shown me enough flashes to say that we should stick by him. Who is out there who would realistically come here who is going to be any better? We have to give him a full season imo.


As for the other points they are connected for me. Patterson left in shall we say clouded circumstances, But G superbly imo steadied the ship and brought about a great run to the end of the season which saw us 6 points off of first place and a whisker away from winning the playoffs.

AS for the British cup win why was that a poor cup win? we played as many games as it takes to win the playoffs (says more about the state of the playoffs i know) played the semi final at ice sheffield on a Wednesday without Mark smith who was out through a groin injury and had to come back from 2-1 down in the third period to win 3-2. Then in the final we shut out Coventry in their own barn.

Now im not sure if you saw those games August but for me they were as well contested as any cup games i have seen over the years, so for me i think that British cup win is downplayed far to easily and frequantly.

 

[buzzwagon]

Sure, I'm assuming we're going to get a new defensemen with Andersson's unfortunate injury. A certain player making his return to the club would do very nicely.

I also think Voth's return will have the as much impact as a new signing.

There's clearly room for (a lot) of improvement without those two players, but they would provide a huge lift to both the team and supporters regardless of any other changes without a doubt.

Reading through the posts this morning it seem,s to me that everybody agree,s that we are in desperate need of Brad's presence in the team.
I can't beleive that the majority of people see this as the main reason for our capitulation.
I don't think it's fair that the responsibilty of carrying this team forward should rest with Brad!
To me this is just an easy exscuse to hide behind. When such an influential player is suspended it will cause dissruption granted, but we are forgetting there is a lot of other players on this roster who should be able to step up to the plate and drive this team forward.
The only players who i have witnessed adapting such attitudes are Prp's (gutsy display!) and Latullipe who at one stage was squaring up to a Vipers player, this say's a lot about these players who are not the biggest players on the team!. Sport doesn't build character it reveals it!
IMHO Which is purely my take Hink's has to be cut straightaway, to be replaced by Riddle.
Likit to be replaced with Tyson due to injury not i might say to performance, because our powerplay was much improved with him.

 

[Gaz G]

Is riddle available?

 

[buzzwagon]

Yes, he was released from Hull this week!

 

[Soundwave]

Sure, I'm assuming we're going to get a new defensemen with Andersson's unfortunate injury. A certain player making his return to the club would do very nicely.

I also think Voth's return will have the as much impact as a new signing.

There's clearly room for (a lot) of improvement without those two players, but they would provide a huge lift to both the team and supporters regardless of any other changes without a doubt.

Reading through the posts this morning it seem,s to me that everybody agree,s that we are in desperate need of Brad's presence in the team.
I can't beleive that the majority of people see this as the main reason for our capitulation.
I don't think it's fair that the responsibilty of carrying this team forward should rest with Brad!
To me this is just an easy exscuse to hide behind. When such an influential player is suspended it will cause dissruption granted, but we are forgetting there is a lot of other players on this roster who should be able to step up to the plate and drive this team forward.
.

I don't see Voth's absence is the main reason for our capitulation, but it is an important reason. However, I think he was particularly missed last night as Newcastle took full advantage of his absence last night in a way I don't want to see in our rink again. This shouldn't have happened with or without Voth, but I'm sure his absence made it easier for newcastle.

I was dissapointed that we don't seem to have anyone sticking up for anyone else. Last year, if someone was being pushed around we were all in there. Coventry did this particularly well last year despite not having an enforcer so it can be done.

I don't want to mask the problems with the team currently on the ice, but I do think Voth and Teplitsky in the line up next week would make a huge difference.

The team looks very similar to what it looked like during last years' losing streak. A few wins are the key. I have a feeling if/when we get some momentum up we'll be very difficult to stop. We need those with the character to get us those first couple of good wins.

 

[Koop11]

Hmmm, not looking great now. I was hoping after a few weeks we’d start finding our feet but we seem to be struggling. The concerns I have is that all summer we’ve heard how a) we’re building a team that will be physical, b) will be geared to win our home games (small pad, but hitters) and c) will be focused on puck retention. All 3 aims are being missed.

We’re the biggest team in the league yet we’ve being out muscled by opposition (a). Coventry for almost two periods out muscles us (small team). Newcastle, whilst have a similar style team to ours should not be coming to our rink and out playing us in the physical department. At their place fine, but not at the tent. Where was the hitting last night. We really don’t look like this tough team we’ve been hearing about.

Admittedly Aubs looks a little ropey. On paper we were all commenting in how strong our D looks and as Aubs is a confidence goalie we’d be fine. However, the D is looking so uncertain out there it’s not helping Aubs at all. I’m not sure I’ve seen a defensive unit give away so many pucks either (c).

Up front we’re lacking a lot of quality. Silverthorne and Pripich are knocking them in but outside of them we have nothing. Credit must go to Newcastle’s D who I thought player a good road game. They kept our shots from the outside. They’re goalie played a solid game and is arguable one of the best goalies signed this summer. However, I don’t feel we challenged him. When we did have a sniff at a quality shot we fired at the middle of the goal with no really venom.

Brad coming back will be a massive boost to the forwards and help build the lack of confidence that is running through every player. We’ve missed his leadership and unfortunately there isn’t anyone currently in his absence taking the reins. I just hope this review on Tuesday finally pans out in our favour.

Gerad is acknowledging much of the shortcomings which is a positive step. The last thing you want is a coach in denial or finding excuses. Gerad is the man who has to lead on putting things right. Players have their responsibilities as does the coach.

Plus sides last night again were our third line. Their role of forcing the puck the other end is good. They won’t get us many goals but if their plus minus can remain neutral then we have to be happy. Phil Hill had another very positive game and deserved him MoM. A very good start by him and long may it continue.

Not sure where we go from here but it’s certainly back to basics in training. We've lost 4 homes games already this season (b). The scary thing is our scheduled in October. Our next four games are Belfast (away), Belfast (home), Sheffield (away) and Nottingham (home). As things stand right now I’d be amazed if we picked up a single point. We know though in spells we can compete with teams. However spells are not enough. A 60 minute game of hockey is what is required and 60 minutes of preaching what this team was built for.

 

[Finny]

Why on earth would we want Riddle?

People are calling for a skillful scoring centre. Riddle can score but he was cut for attitude problems.
If we were to release Hinks, I would expect better than Riddle.

 

[Gingers Husband]

I don't think Riddle is the answer. He only plays when he wants and appears to be quite disruptive. I have already said on another thread that due to the wage cap we could only afford Tepliitsky if we gas one of our higher earners. Due to his form and the fact that he is now considered a mostly third line player, it has to be Hinks. When the Vother gets back, I think our forwards are sorted, even if we are, or appear to be one short.
As for last night, Newcastle had spent 8 hours on a bus yet came out of the blocks quicker than us. First period, our third line looked to be our most threatening, Cowmeadow worked his socks off and allthough Phil Hill had a very good game Cowie was my M.O.M.. Second and third periods and our forwards seemed to get it together, apart from Silverthorn who seemed to be off his game a bit. The defence seemed to play like they were protecting a back up goalie, they seem to have very little confidence in Aubs and though it may not be a very popular opinion, neither do I. As far as some of the calls missed by the ref go, they were all with the play and should be on the game footage. I hope that Mcallisters hit on Hinks is reviewed, along with the hit to Prpich and the "two handed baseball swing" to Jarvis. We have been on the receiving end of the disciplinary boards decisions and it is costing us. Whilst it's good to take the moral high ground and not get involved with the reporting of players, why should our team suffer when everyone else gets away with it ? Coventrys Danny Stewart put Anderson out for 16 weeks with what should I.M.O. been a charging penalty and slashes McIver across the back with another "two handed baseball swing" and walks away scot free. In seasons past, there would have been no need for the league to review anything, members of the team would have handed out their own punishment. Our current guys look like they are under orders not to get involved in any rough stuff, what is the point in recruiting tough guys and then telling them not to fight?

 

[Koop11]

I hope that Mcallisters hit on Hinks is reviewed

You're joking aren't you. That was a great blue line hit. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.

 

[Holl_5]

I hope that Mcallisters hit on Hinks is reviewed, along with the hit to Prpich and the "two handed baseball swing" to Jarvis

That was a fantastic hit. We don't see many open ice hits in this league as the play is so slow and the players aren't skilled enough to line them up mid-ice. McAllister didn't lift his stick or elbows and didn't leave the ice. It was a great hit. The man is 6ft 7 and played in the NHL. A 5'10 guy is going to bounce off him...and he did! Hinks did well to get up. The one on Prpich was a little more suspect IMO and could have been called as boarding, but my view of that corner is pretty restricted so I only saw the few steps towards it.

 

[Tomahawk]

I reckon we should have a trade with Basingstoke Aubry for Reiter because I don't think Aubry has been playing well lately

 

[Chris]

No way should the hit on Hinks be reviewed, if we don't have people to step up and throw the hits back, then perhaps we deserve what's coming.

We were told we'd signed a big hitting team this year, we've seen flashes of brilliance, namely the 1st period against Coventry, but the rest of the games have been lacking.

Chris.

 

[Gingers Husband]

I hope that Mcallisters hit on Hinks is reviewed

You're joking aren't you. That was a great blue line hit. Nothing wrong with it at all IMO.

He looked to me to have his elbows up, I know his height will not help but Brad has been continually called for it and while I would agree that it was a spectacular sight to see Hinks bounce off him and we don't see enough open ice hits like that. If it was illegal in any way, we should be keeping the league busy. It may be a bit petty, but they started it didn't they.

 

[Ugly Betty]

Why on earth would we want Riddle?

People are calling for a skillful scoring centre. Riddle can score but he was cut for attitude problems.
If we were to release Hinks, I would expect better than Riddle.

Nail, Head, Hit :!:

However dont think we need that skilled, flashy player, just someone who can put the puck away.

 

[buzzwagon]

Why on earth would we want Riddle?

People are calling for a skillful scoring centre. Riddle can score but he was cut for attitude problems.
If we were to release Hinks, I would expect better than Riddle.

Nail, Head, Hit :!:

However dont think we need that skilled, flashy player, just someone who can put the puck away.

Anyone think that he might just have a winners attitude !!, it doesn't state what his attitude is.
Atitude is a state of someone's mind, he might just be thinking he no longer wants to be playing with losers but people with the winners attitude.

 

[Gazza272]

Why on earth would we want Riddle?

People are calling for a skillful scoring centre. Riddle can score but he was cut for attitude problems.
If we were to release Hinks, I would expect better than Riddle.

Nail, Head, Hit :!:

However dont think we need that skilled, flashy player, just someone who can put the puck away.

Anyone think that he might just have a winners attitude !!, it doesn't state what his attitude is.
Atitude is a state of someone's mind, he might just be thinking he no longer wants to be playing with losers but people with the winners attitude.

Last year he was fined for having an incident in a pub. This season when we played Hull i actually had to ask if he was injured or not as i didnt notice him once the entire game.


If we are thinking riddle is the answer to any problem we have then we are in more trouble than i first imagined.


I'ed rather try getting ed courtenay out of retirement :lol:

 

[Ting Tong Bob]

IMO last nights Referee didnt help for an enjoyable game of hockey either, but thats not an excuse for the defeat. I think his name was Smith, how he didnt call the: slashing on Jarvis which was hit with ten times more venom than the Voth incident, Perp's getting several butt endings behind the goals, Longstaff on the team bench smashing his stick several times against the side of the bench wall whilst arguing the ref's decision (hows that not a 10 min misconduct?), the disallowed goal for high sticks when he waved away so many other far worse high sticks and the list could go on. So many non-calls that could have change the whole course of the game. Win or loose fair & consistent ref'ing is all I ask :evil:

 

[Ugly Betty]

AS for the British cup win why was that a poor cup win? we played as many games as it takes to win the playoffs (says more about the state of the playoffs i know) played the semi final at ice sheffield on a Wednesday without Mark smith who was out through a groin injury and had to come back from 2-1 down in the third period to win 3-2. Then in the final we shut out Coventry in their own barn.

Now im not sure if you saw those games August but for me they were as well contested as any cup games i have seen over the years, so for me i think that British cup win is downplayed far to easily and frequantly.

With respect Gazza that was still The BK cup, a trophy deemed so important by our previous owners that they saw fit to stage the final over one away legat Coventry. I dont think the blaze would have been having the nightmares like the ones they must have had for weeks after our challenge cup comeback. Yes we won the BK cup but with a squad of players recruited by the previous coach. In my opinion that was the most talented group of the players we have had at the club in some time. In terms of playing personnel we have certainly gone backwards since.

You are right Gazza coaching qualifications are not important and I don't care who is the coach provided that-
1. The best possible players are researched and recruited within the budget.
2. Those players are motivated by the coach sufficiently to win hockey games.

Frankly think that Adams has fallen short on both counts so far.

Just my opinion of course :roll:

 

[business]

McAllister's hit was beautiful. Dion Phaneuf-esque.

 

[Gazza272]

[
With respect Gazza that was still The BK cup, a trophy deemed so important by our previous owners that they saw fit to stage the final over one away legat Coventry. I dont think the blaze would have been having the nightmares like the ones they must have had for weeks after our challenge cup comeback. Yes we won the BK cup but with a squad of players recruited by the previous coach. In my opinion that was the most talented group of the players we have had at the club in some time. In terms of playing personnel we have certainly gone backwards since.

You are right Gazza coaching qualifications are not important and I don't care who is the coach provided that-
1. The best possible players are researched and recruited within the budget.
2. Those players are motivated by the coach sufficiently to win hockey games.

Frankly think that Adams has fallen short on both counts so far.

Just my opinion of course :roll:

For me what the ownership and suits think of a cup shouldnt come into the equation. We are tlaking about coaching and our coach, coached us to a trophy. A trophy which every player of every team we faced wanted to win, you could see it in the way they performed. Sheffield especially. That British cup semi final was the best game i saw that season. And as i said in my previous post, adams didnt recruit the side he took to the british cup and playoff finals, but boy did he get their minds off the crap we had to endure that season (No rink, Ed patterson situation) and get them playing some damn good hockey, whch again got us 6 points off of the top of the league the closest we have ever been to winning it, a playoff final for the first time in EIHL and again a trophy. I will say though that Ed Pattersons contribution shouldnt be ignored in this.


With regards to player recruitment, individually i cant see what he didnt get right in the summer. Hinks while being a massive dissapointment boasts the stats and performances during his time with Newcastle of a top line player, for some reason though he's just not getting it done. I do think though that yoru point 1 and 2 are linked and for some reason G isnt getting things right with motivating and crucially for me line mates and defensive partnerships which is causing us to ship to many goals and not score enough.


So basically i would disagree with your first point based on the fact that G like any other coach can only scout and recruit with restrictions, and that individually i think he got a lot of players right and i can see why he signed the players he did even though they arent working out at presnt.

And i'll agree with point 2 that G does need to work doubly hard as a coach to turn things around.


Also yes it is your opinion and i respect it greatly This is just a debate neither of us are wrong here imo.