2015/2016 Rumour & Offseason Random Shenanigans

Koop11

Well-Known Member
I never thought we’d bring in new Brits with the new import rule changing. Keep what we have I say. We have more Brits representing GB than any other club in UK.

Can’t say I agree with the new import rule change. We’re clearly moving slowly towards a Superleague model and we all know how that ended. That’s another discussion altogether.

I wouldn’t sign Blight back. We have already signed better players so it would be a backward step IMO. I thought he had a great season with Mac in his first year but the following season he struggled. I don’t however agree with how he was treated that season .

I wish Blight and all those playing for GB the very best of luck in the new couple of weeks.
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
with the GB setup, it's either black or white, but there can't be this grey area.

We either keep it 100% British born & bred players, or saturate it with as many dual nationals as we can for publicity.

Italy's team at the Sochi olympics (correct me if i'm wrong, 2nd hand info) had only 3 italian players in, the rest were all canadian, however in doing this, they made the olympics.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Last time we saturated it with Dual Nats we made Pool A, but it didn't help raise the profile.

I like the setup now where it's mainly Brits with a couple of Dual Nats to increase the strength in depth.
 

wildthing74

Well-Known Member
I agree Finny. Even if we end up with 5-6 dual Nationals and the rest Brits it will make us stronger but retain our identity. Blighter was always going to play for GB & has a British dad and others in similar situations would no doubt be as proud as a kid from the UK to play for the National team but when we had 20 guys with no British heritage who just qualified on living here for a bit it was a joke.

That Pool A experience was the highlight of my hockey watching life and being in and around the superstars from Canada and Russia every night was surreal but that team was not a British team.One of the players was even singing along to "Oh Canada" while stood on the blue line with a lion on his chest much to the rest of the team's annoyance.

Alongside Blight if we can get another 3-4 that would strengthen the squad then I would be all for it but the balance has to be right.We still got ripped apart in Pool A and no extra media coverage followed.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
My problem again with this is it's all just so damn short term in its outlook. It is a quick fix band aid to suddenly fill the team with dual nationals and hope for success. The solutions revolve around inward investment from top down whilst also gaining as much lottery and Olympic funding as possible to provide a path for British kids to become good enough. Be under no illusions this generation are simply not good enough. They don't skate well enough. Pass well enough and shoot well enough for international hockey. You have to reconcile that fact. That is because there fundamental coaching evaporates and growth curve shallows out from about 14-16 onwards. Strength, conditioning, skills all need to be driven to a higher level. But this is where I cop the hump with the Elite. It is simply guys lining their pockets or at least trying too. They have to stop this constant push on imports. They have to put in place a framework that will deliver rewards to top end Brits to allow it to be a competitive career choice to justify the commitment. They are completely disconnected from the national program and show no signs of offering any changes designed other than to bolster the elite league product.

For all of the success of this year devils wise. The junior ranks are still suffering and you have to ask what has happened to a system that has provided so many quality players previously even to international level. We can trumpet there are four devils in the GB team. Only one is a Cardiff product so to speak. I honestly hope and it's no personal pop at Todd that he realises the importance of that system and moves to have a greater influence in its running as especially in the new rink and if they take ownership they can wield a lot of power of the whole of hockey in Cardiff. Cardiff could be the marquee hockey town in the UK and be instrumental in beginning lasting change into the grass roots of the game and demonstrating how it benefits the A team but it could end up with a great devils team and a grave yard for junior hockey.
 

Sheincar

Well-Known Member
There are many GB fans who will stop going to games if the team is stacked with dual nats However if we use solely Brits we'll be unlikely to win any promotion. TBH GB coach is damned either way!
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
If GB can't produce the players good enough to get promoted then they simply don't deserve to. That is the issue. What can be done to the system to ensure young players being produced from junior development are good enough to play and compete in Pool A. Now I agree that that is not all the fault of the EIHL but also IHUK and the EIHA but the system has to be all encompassing across all levels with the GB team the primary driver in nearly every decision.
 

James

Administrator
Mooney#16 said:
But this is where I cop the hump with the Elite. It is simply guys lining their pockets or at least trying too. They have to stop this constant push on imports. They have to put in place a framework that will deliver rewards to top end Brits to allow it to be a competitive career choice to justify the commitment. They are completely disconnected from the national program and show no signs of offering any changes designed other than to bolster the elite league product.
They don't care though and to some extent should they? The Elite league is a sports entertainment brand. Its about delivering the best ice hockey product to the paying customer. Have they ever said they had any mandate to improve British players? Some Elite teams will have associated junior set-ups but this isn't anything to do with the Elite. British players improve when playing along side imports but again any development here is purely for and on behalf of the clubs in question. Is it not the EPL who claim to be the development league who are failing in this case?
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
The EIHA have bottled Junior Development for a long time and have left the blame to be laid at the EIHL's door for many a year now.

Quite simply any good foundation starts with the bottom and not by building the roof first. The EIHL will always be the roof at the top of the pyramid of British hockey. As it is very poor attempts are made by the EIHA to cement the foundations.

Until that changes what the EIHL do is largely irrelevant in terms of the Development of UK players.
 

Gospel

Active Member
Ice hockey in the UK is such a minority sport that it doesnt attract many young players to take it up, then even amongst those that do theres a percentage who give up as they get older due to other sports or interests.

The sport as a whole needs more tv coverage at a decent time of the day so people can see it, become interested then give it a go. With satellite tv taking so many of the sports from normal tv its a shame the BBC or ITV or even C5 haven't claimed hockey and show it.

I guess to do that though there would have to be some good reasons, maybe the arrival of players like Biz for all teams in the league would generate that interest but then theres the cost of those players.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
The main stumbling block is funding for grass roots meaningful change. Because of the state of the GB programs the BOA offer zero funding to hockey and to the best of my knowledge lottery funding to grass roots projects is minimal to non existent. Hockey in this country has to want for change itself and that means inward investment from the top tier to start the whole wheel of change rolling. A persistent arms race in spending and imports at elite level means all funds go into players and owners pockets in effect. There is nothing left to be put back into the game. IHUK and the EIHA are littered with idiots who have failed the sport and their motives are all wrong and execution even worse. The EPL, NIHL develops average players at best with a push on success putting money into players pockets who have no right earning a wage from the sport rather than being spent on assisting prospects reach the pinnacle. They need to get tough on the veterans. A controversial position but a right one.

In short the Elite needs to provide funding to kick start the move for change. In time this can be added to by BOA / Lottery funding. The EIHA and IHUK need to scrap a NIHL tier for an U21 league. The other tier should be capped at U25 with 3 over age players allowed per team. Over 25 you are either in the EPL or playing rec. EPL should be unrestricted in age with three imports only.

Then the Elite should be 8 imports only. With two eliteleague CHL spots that would mean upwards of 30 GB players playing CHL hockey and competing at the highest (ish) level. That lends itself to a massive level of exposure for GB talent to improve. Like I say change is required whole sale but the opening step has to be with the money men of the EIHL.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
We only have two CHL spots because Nottingham did better than the French teams. If we dropped to 8 imports and the level of hockey dropped too, we'd probably have no CHL spots at all.

Plus there isn't the money in the EIHL to fund a huge junior development programme anyway.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
I wouldn't be talking about an overnight timeline as it has to be designed around a future generation so at the very least it's 10 years to truly implement and see results. But the discussions have to happening now. The hope is an improved system would see the Elite improve further but with GB players at its heart not imports. The import no would be fazed out as the quality of Brit increase with the BOA starting to pay attention and increased TV and Secondary revenues from a successful national program.

Hey it's an opinion on a course of action there to be shot at but it strikes me as having more progress attached to it then the current structure.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Gospel has made the most important point, that we are a minority sport. And a very expensive one at that.

If you're a naturally gifted sportsman you're going to either want to play football or be forced to play rugby in school. There are probably way more football pitches in Cardiff than ice rinks in the whole of the UK.

We need to increase participation numbers, which means more rinks and more exposure. Which means we need a successful EIHL with increasing number of teams.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
Afraid I disagree there. The elite may grow with more teams and more imports and spectator figures will increase but it won't necessarily see growth in participation. There are plenty of rinks across the UK with plenty of kids playing but the system fails those kids for whatever reason after about 16. There development and training just stalls. Slovenia tore up trees at the last Olympics with only seven domestic rinks. Welsh rugby even Irish rugby dominate the northern hemisphere rugby but the leagues and participation are below that of England and France. How come? The Eliteleague isn't the golden ticket for the game in this country. The money it can produce is being redistributed into grass roots coaching and funding for potential stars to reach their ceiling. They have to be in an environment of constant competition amongst their peers with full support in off and on ice training coached by people of the required expertise.
 
Football and rugby can be played by anyone, regardless of disposable income; they are supported by the education system. Unfortunately, the same can't be said of ice hockey, where even just learning to skate works out at ~ £5 per session v a run about on a field for free.

Until that issue is addressed, ice hockey will always be a minority sport in the UK. and we will always struggle to make up the numbers at a decent level.
 
Are people that bothered about having that many bristish players in the elite? For 15 / 16 quid a game i want to see the best hockey i can and if that means more imports so be it. British kids are never going to be superstars in the elite with the exeption of oconner and Dowd. These imports we have probably leave home at 14-15 years of age to play junior usually miles away form where they grew up and train most days thats NEVER going to happen in the uk. Didnt Batch and Boxhill do the north american junior system? do you think they would have progressed to the level they are now if they had stayed in this country?
 
Mooney#16 said:
The main stumbling block is funding for grass roots meaningful change. Because of the state of the GB programs the BOA offer zero funding to hockey and to the best of my knowledge lottery funding to grass roots projects is minimal to non existent. Hockey in this country has to want for change itself and that means inward investment from the top tier to start the whole wheel of change rolling. A persistent arms race in spending and imports at elite level means all funds go into players and owners pockets in effect. There is nothing left to be put back into the game. IHUK and the EIHA are littered with idiots who have failed the sport and their motives are all wrong and execution even worse. The EPL, NIHL develops average players at best with a push on success putting money into players pockets who have no right earning a wage from the sport rather than being spent on assisting prospects reach the pinnacle. They need to get tough on the veterans. A controversial position but a right one.

In short the Elite needs to provide funding to kick start the move for change. In time this can be added to by BOA / Lottery funding. The EIHA and IHUK need to scrap a NIHL tier for an U21 league. The other tier should be capped at U25 with 3 over age players allowed per team. Over 25 you are either in the EPL or playing rec. EPL should be unrestricted in age with three imports only.

Then the Elite should be 8 imports only. With two eliteleague CHL spots that would mean upwards of 30 GB players playing CHL hockey and competing at the highest (ish) level. That lends itself to a massive level of exposure for GB talent to improve. Like I say change is required whole sale but the opening step has to be with the money men of the EIHL.

First, someone must have listened to you because the EIHA have just announced that from next season the age groups for junior hockey has changed and they have fallen in line with the rest of the world. Also an U21 league is to start.
Second, the funding has always been a problem. The BOA will not provide any funding until the team qualifies for the Olympics. By the way they only missed out on qualifying for the Olympics by 1 or 2 games so to say the state of the national team is bad is a gross miss statement ! The GB senior team has a lot of players who are either Welsh born or who learned their trade playing for the Devils.
Third, the main problem in junior development is the fact that there are very few clubs that have good ex players as coach, as most want to coach at ENL or above but that is changing as there were a few ex Devils and a present Devil at the last coaching course run in Cardiff who have all said that they want to give back to the kids what they have learned which will be great if it is Cardiff where they decide to coach but first they must find out if they will be paid to do this. At the moment too many parents coach juniors and whilst it is great that these people give up their time to do this it must be said that this is not the same as having an ex player, who has been there and done it, coach the juniors.
Whilst you are quick to blame the EIHA they have done a million times more for junior development than the EIHL would ever do. The owners haven't yet grasped how good it would be for their business if GB had a team in the Olympics or Pool A as then the sport would gain more tv coverage thus hopefully leading to bigger crowds, imports and tv coverage of the league.
Lastly, I think the mix of duals and Brit born players in the GB senior team is about right and wouldn't like to see that changed and I also think going down to 8 imports in our league would kill the sport as there isn't enough quality Brits to support your request and if it wasn't for the GB Supporters club I doubt if GB would even have any teams.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
rogue123 said:
Second, the funding has always been a problem. The BOA will not provide any funding until the team qualifies for the Olympics. By the way they only missed out on qualifying for the Olympics by 1 or 2 games so to say the state of the national team is bad is a gross miss statement !

Lastly, I think the mix of duals and Brit born players in the GB senior team is about right and wouldn't like to see that changed and I also think going down to 8 imports in our league would kill the sport as there isn't enough quality Brits to support your request and if it wasn't for the GB Supporters club I doubt if GB would even have any teams.
I'd only say it can't really be a gross mis statement to say the GB program is below standard for precisely the reason that it is under financed by supporters and willing contributors. It should be far more professional than that and it's for those reasons BOA refuse to flush there money away on a system it has no faith in.

I'm not knocking the players across any of the age groups or sexes as they have worked hard to get there and represent the country with pride. I just feel the system has let them down from fulfilling on potential that was there say 10 years ago. Hockey in the UK could be so much more. Maybe I'm a dreamer but I honestly believe it and no element of perceived restriction washes for me. It's about determination, expertise, commitment and execution.

At the end of the day guys coming out of the OHL going into the draft leave with BMI figures in single digits and outstanding gym scores. They are still learning the game and the trade of being a pro hockey player but the commitment to give themselves the best chance in the game is there. That's not about talent but determination. GB kids need to have these excuses removed. The required level has to rise. The mindset has to fundamentally root and branch be more professional but also funding to make facilities available to allow the path to be open.

Couldn't agree more on the coaching perspective. Reinvestment by pros has to be a paramount push.
 
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