Update from Ragan
- Thread starter Koop11
- Start date
I kind of agree with what your saying, (there's always a but) but, all paying fans are important to a club, I appreciate ST holders inject a larger sum into the club in one go and for this they save money, and rightfully so. But further advantages I think are rewarding deeper pockets rather than loyalty. Having a ST makes you no more loyal/important than a fan who goes every week and pays on the door.
Re: Re: Update from Ragan
There are some attractive direct debit options these days, which spreads the cost over the season.
KaneDevils said:
Not everyone has the money to buy one up front RTD, for whatever reason. Is it fair that they should miss out because they are not so flush with the dough? Were not all tories you know!
Not knowing you I wouldn't question your judgement, your spelling however. :lol: (only joking)
Not knowing you I wouldn't question your judgement, your spelling however. :lol: (only joking)
I think Paul's roundup has been informative on several levels for the fans but clearly some big questions have arisen also.
I think also that an emotive subject - seating - has cropped up from something that I would suspect he didn't mean to even hint at. I read that as him wanting every ST holder to also be a supporters club member (which he would, it would seem, want to call the Red Army - which makes sense in many ways). Now whether that is a cost added on or whether it is something the club builds into ST's in the future I don't know.
However, for all of the high profile decisions that have caused division in recent years I doubt that Paul or anyone at the club would have a group with a membership <100 people choose seats over a group of >600 members. It read to me as aspirational that one would automatically be the other. At least I do hope so. I could be very wrong of course and I don't know his plans but I do know seat location is probably the most emotive issue for most Devils fans, even more than recruitment and our (hopefully previously) iffy power play
Hopefully the CEO Corner will be a regular event in the weeks heading up to the start of the season and the valid questions raised above can be addressed.
I think also that an emotive subject - seating - has cropped up from something that I would suspect he didn't mean to even hint at. I read that as him wanting every ST holder to also be a supporters club member (which he would, it would seem, want to call the Red Army - which makes sense in many ways). Now whether that is a cost added on or whether it is something the club builds into ST's in the future I don't know.
However, for all of the high profile decisions that have caused division in recent years I doubt that Paul or anyone at the club would have a group with a membership <100 people choose seats over a group of >600 members. It read to me as aspirational that one would automatically be the other. At least I do hope so. I could be very wrong of course and I don't know his plans but I do know seat location is probably the most emotive issue for most Devils fans, even more than recruitment and our (hopefully previously) iffy power play
Hopefully the CEO Corner will be a regular event in the weeks heading up to the start of the season and the valid questions raised above can be addressed.
As far as I am aware Red Army Travel does not make a profit - it is run for the benefit of fans that want to travel away as a group as cheaply as possible. The money used to sponsor a player has come from the a combination fund raising events on trips and the deep pockets of 1 or 2 people who run the trips and want to help the club.
I agree with you that its a typical PR statement where he tries to sneak things through without properly thinking about all parties involved.
I agree with you that its a typical PR statement where he tries to sneak things through without properly thinking about all parties involved.
I think it's very well known that Red Army Travel is not for profit.It simply started off as a service to get away travel organised as this had not been organised for many years either by CDSL or any other group.
The cost is set as low as possible to afford all fans the chance to go and indeed unlike previous travel kids are welcomed and pay approximately half the cost of an adult.
If in the event we manage to fill the coach any monies over the cost of the trip go back as prizes that are given free to the fans that travel.
We hope to extend it to even more games this year and have already commited to sponsoring Ben Davies and this great forum. Again its fairly well known that the cost of sponsoring has been split 3 ways with myself and Luke paying out of our own pockets and the other 3rd by fans that travel with the chance to get to win any benefits given such as Ben's shirt.
The cost of sponsoring this forum again is from Luke and I's pockets,not that's anybodies business and it's a small way to help the club and that's guys that provide such a great platform for us all.
As discussed with Brent should there be any funds carried forward come the end of the season these will be donated to DCF.
Plain and simple we want to provide a fun trip for fans like ourselves to go to away games,help the club with a little bit of sponsorship when the current climate is tough and give the guys some much deserved support on the road.
Ask any player what it feels like having a big group of fans backing them on the road?
The cost is set as low as possible to afford all fans the chance to go and indeed unlike previous travel kids are welcomed and pay approximately half the cost of an adult.
If in the event we manage to fill the coach any monies over the cost of the trip go back as prizes that are given free to the fans that travel.
We hope to extend it to even more games this year and have already commited to sponsoring Ben Davies and this great forum. Again its fairly well known that the cost of sponsoring has been split 3 ways with myself and Luke paying out of our own pockets and the other 3rd by fans that travel with the chance to get to win any benefits given such as Ben's shirt.
The cost of sponsoring this forum again is from Luke and I's pockets,not that's anybodies business and it's a small way to help the club and that's guys that provide such a great platform for us all.
As discussed with Brent should there be any funds carried forward come the end of the season these will be donated to DCF.
Plain and simple we want to provide a fun trip for fans like ourselves to go to away games,help the club with a little bit of sponsorship when the current climate is tough and give the guys some much deserved support on the road.
Ask any player what it feels like having a big group of fans backing them on the road?
Paul Sullivan said:
I think Paul's roundup has been informative on several levels for the fans but clearly some big questions have arisen also.
I think also that an emotive subject - seating - has cropped up from something that I would suspect he didn't mean to even hint at. I read that as him wanting every ST holder to also be a supporters club member (which he would, it would seem, want to call the Red Army - which makes sense in many ways). Now whether that is a cost added on or whether it is something the club builds into ST's in the future I don't know.
However, for all of the high profile decisions that have caused division in recent years I doubt that Paul or anyone at the club would have a group with a membership <100 people choose seats over a group of >600 members. It read to me as aspirational that one would automatically be the other. At least I do hope so. I could be very wrong of course and I don't know his plans but I do know seat location is probably the most emotive issue for most Devils fans, even more than recruitment and our (hopefully previously) iffy power play
Hopefully the CEO Corner will be a regular event in the weeks heading up to the start of the season and the valid questions raised above can be addressed.
I think also that an emotive subject - seating - has cropped up from something that I would suspect he didn't mean to even hint at. I read that as him wanting every ST holder to also be a supporters club member (which he would, it would seem, want to call the Red Army - which makes sense in many ways). Now whether that is a cost added on or whether it is something the club builds into ST's in the future I don't know.
However, for all of the high profile decisions that have caused division in recent years I doubt that Paul or anyone at the club would have a group with a membership <100 people choose seats over a group of >600 members. It read to me as aspirational that one would automatically be the other. At least I do hope so. I could be very wrong of course and I don't know his plans but I do know seat location is probably the most emotive issue for most Devils fans, even more than recruitment and our (hopefully previously) iffy power play
Hopefully the CEO Corner will be a regular event in the weeks heading up to the start of the season and the valid questions raised above can be addressed.
which is the 27th game we've paid for?
will there be mini ST?
what are the CC ticket packages?
is there a package ticket for the friendlies?
what are the arrangements for meet the players?
what are the shirt sponsorship arrangements?
In other words the usual questions that don't get answered until the last opportunity.
Good questions all.
At the risk of stating the obvious though whilst these answers should absolutely be in the public domain, there are lines of communication to the club more direct than posting here.
And as mentioned earlier, hopefully this is the first of several updates that answer the above, and more.
At the risk of stating the obvious though whilst these answers should absolutely be in the public domain, there are lines of communication to the club more direct than posting here.
And as mentioned earlier, hopefully this is the first of several updates that answer the above, and more.
I think I opened a can of worms...ooops!
Still can't see how people who won't/don't/can't commit to a season ticket using one of a number of flexible options should get first choice on a seat they may or may not use every game?!!
STH Should have first choice based on current location. Behind home bench gets first choice there, behind sin bin likewise etc etc...not rocket science...!
Still can't see how people who won't/don't/can't commit to a season ticket using one of a number of flexible options should get first choice on a seat they may or may not use every game?!!
STH Should have first choice based on current location. Behind home bench gets first choice there, behind sin bin likewise etc etc...not rocket science...!
Which is why I said they should be in the public domain.
However if something *is* that obvious and fans really want the answer then asking the question directly might help. Repeatedly criticising - however justified - will simply engender a trench mentality in some cases.
Not defending here, merely pointing out that the 'you answered these questions (jerseys, price increases etc) what about these' posts could only serve to further negativity . If the answer is desired that much it would be sought from the source, would it not?
Once again I agree with you that this information would be useful and should be public. However if the folk running the club have missed something there are two options:
Ask them for the info
Have a go about their mistake.
The first might get the answer, the other arguably vents the spleen and no more.
However if something *is* that obvious and fans really want the answer then asking the question directly might help. Repeatedly criticising - however justified - will simply engender a trench mentality in some cases.
Not defending here, merely pointing out that the 'you answered these questions (jerseys, price increases etc) what about these' posts could only serve to further negativity . If the answer is desired that much it would be sought from the source, would it not?
Once again I agree with you that this information would be useful and should be public. However if the folk running the club have missed something there are two options:
Ask them for the info
Have a go about their mistake.
The first might get the answer, the other arguably vents the spleen and no more.
your spot on kanedevil, you obviously don't know me. 1, sorry about the spelling, in a rush, didn't check ( as the norm ) WD . 2, have never been as you put it flush with dough, it's not so much what you earn it's what you do with it, and every summer i buy my season ticket. 3, never have and never will be a torie, disapointed red. that's me. 4, how is any one going to miss out, there will be 3,000 plus seats, there are about 600 s/t holders and a few hundred that buy there tickets week to week, most of these don't go every week so why should these supporters get to pick a seat over a season ticket holder when thay don't go every week ? how will that work ? when we moved to the tent we as s/t holders had to meet at the rink one evening to go sit in the stands a chose a seat. that's how it should be. i pay hundreds less over the years to watch all the games than some one who does not go to all the games but has to pay full price. if picking a seat is that impotant to people BUY A SEASON TICKET.
WD . 2, have never been as you put it flush with dough, it's not so much what you earn it's what you do with it, and every summer i buy my season ticket. 3, never have and never will be a torie, disapointed red. that's me. 4, how is any one going to miss out, there will be 3,000 plus seats, there are about 600 s/t holders and a few hundred that buy there tickets week to week, most of these don't go every week so why should these supporters get to pick a seat over a season ticket holder when thay don't go every week ? how will that work ? when we moved to the tent we as s/t holders had to meet at the rink one evening to go sit in the stands a chose a seat. that's how it should be. i pay hundreds less over the years to watch all the games than some one who does not go to all the games but has to pay full price. if picking a seat is that impotant to people BUY A SEASON TICKET.In regards to season ticket holders.
For me for far too long our season ticket holders have not been given value due to the vocal minority of non season ticket holders who feel hard done by.
Indeed the reason Red Army Travel is independant is because at one point they were invited to do it on behalf of the club but backed out over a spat over a season ticket holders only event which had to be cancelled to include everyone.
In other sports season ticket holders get a lot more preferential treatment and the non season ticket holders do not kick off as much.
The club should not be frightened to give season ticket holders more benefits because fans who cant/wont get one will feel left out. It is sadly one of those facts we have to deal with.
There have been plenty of seasons where I have not got a season ticket but went to every home game that was my choice for a variety of reasons. However When i did get a season ticket i felt absoloutly no benefit other than a little bit of saving and that for me is wrong imo. We need Season tickets to have that incentive as they drive the club in the off season.
For me for far too long our season ticket holders have not been given value due to the vocal minority of non season ticket holders who feel hard done by.
Indeed the reason Red Army Travel is independant is because at one point they were invited to do it on behalf of the club but backed out over a spat over a season ticket holders only event which had to be cancelled to include everyone.
In other sports season ticket holders get a lot more preferential treatment and the non season ticket holders do not kick off as much.
The club should not be frightened to give season ticket holders more benefits because fans who cant/wont get one will feel left out. It is sadly one of those facts we have to deal with.
There have been plenty of seasons where I have not got a season ticket but went to every home game that was my choice for a variety of reasons. However When i did get a season ticket i felt absoloutly no benefit other than a little bit of saving and that for me is wrong imo. We need Season tickets to have that incentive as they drive the club in the off season.
I think your point about non ST holders having sway is more telling than the ones about ST benefits Gazza.
Even on the highest price (the current one) a ST now represents a saving of £2.78 per game. That's not a 'little' saving. If you purchased one on the End of season offer (which IIRC was extended a little) then you would be enjoying a saving of £5 per game. That's definitely not a small saving.
One thing that surprised me, if the number is accurate, was the 190 ST holders from last year who have not renewed. I find it interesting as the signings this off-season certainly have people more excited than last Summer's, and the conference re-shuffle and overall expectation of excitement level meant I would have thought that number would have been significantly lower.
Do you think a couple of extra discounts or benefits would sway those 200 people if the financial savings were not already? (genuine question as something has stopped them). We are one more year away from the liquidation so I don't feel confidence would be lower than last Summer.
I personally feel that it's not the casual fan that has the most buying power. I believe it is those people who have genuine reasons for missing games, therefore nullifying a season ticket. They might make 20 games every year but a ST is no benefit to them. I am a huge proponent of mini season tickets and my preference to help those people (and the Club) would have been this:
10 game mini season ticket
One section numbered N1, N2, N3 and N4
One section numbered S1 to S6.
The N tickets can only be used for Northern conference Games, S for the South. It might offer some consistency of attendance and if the savings were right the purchaser wouldn't mind as they would still get more of the 'big' games.
However - and I haven't seen the numbers - if there are significant savings on packs of flex tickets then great. I think the Club's issue this year (even though travel is better) will be trying to level out the attendance instead of having 2000 for Coventry and 900 for Fife.
Even on the highest price (the current one) a ST now represents a saving of £2.78 per game. That's not a 'little' saving. If you purchased one on the End of season offer (which IIRC was extended a little) then you would be enjoying a saving of £5 per game. That's definitely not a small saving.
One thing that surprised me, if the number is accurate, was the 190 ST holders from last year who have not renewed. I find it interesting as the signings this off-season certainly have people more excited than last Summer's, and the conference re-shuffle and overall expectation of excitement level meant I would have thought that number would have been significantly lower.
Do you think a couple of extra discounts or benefits would sway those 200 people if the financial savings were not already? (genuine question as something has stopped them). We are one more year away from the liquidation so I don't feel confidence would be lower than last Summer.
I personally feel that it's not the casual fan that has the most buying power. I believe it is those people who have genuine reasons for missing games, therefore nullifying a season ticket. They might make 20 games every year but a ST is no benefit to them. I am a huge proponent of mini season tickets and my preference to help those people (and the Club) would have been this:
10 game mini season ticket
One section numbered N1, N2, N3 and N4
One section numbered S1 to S6.
The N tickets can only be used for Northern conference Games, S for the South. It might offer some consistency of attendance and if the savings were right the purchaser wouldn't mind as they would still get more of the 'big' games.
However - and I haven't seen the numbers - if there are significant savings on packs of flex tickets then great. I think the Club's issue this year (even though travel is better) will be trying to level out the attendance instead of having 2000 for Coventry and 900 for Fife.
I'm one of the ones who can't commit to every single game. Therefore I choose not to get a season ticket.
I have been in the past but circumstances change.
I would have absolutely no problem in STH having extra perks. After all they have made a commitment to the club and without them we wouldn't be moving forward. Perhaps give all STH holders membership to the CDSL for free. If anyone else wants to join for the perk of being first to select a seat then they can.
It all seems to me like a money making exercise, offer CDSL members first choice, create panic, get a rush of new members paying another £10 just to get a benefit they should all ready have.
I have been in the past but circumstances change.
I would have absolutely no problem in STH having extra perks. After all they have made a commitment to the club and without them we wouldn't be moving forward. Perhaps give all STH holders membership to the CDSL for free. If anyone else wants to join for the perk of being first to select a seat then they can.
It all seems to me like a money making exercise, offer CDSL members first choice, create panic, get a rush of new members paying another £10 just to get a benefit they should all ready have.
Gazza has it about right - there needs to be more tangible benefits for the ST to sweeten the deal.
I renewed before the end of the season, but considered it very carefully. It's a long old trek to Cardiff on a Sunday night, and the thought of being able to pick a choose seemed attractive... it is only because those I sit with renewed that I also took the plunge.
That saving is pervasive, but it is the deferred benefit conundrum. The saving is only really apparent at the end of the season (if at all).
The club could offer a few perks that would cost them little, or even nothing. Open practice sessions, social events just for season ticket holders, maybe a discount off Devils merch.
If non-ST holders don't like it, tough. Quit your mewling, or get a ST.
I renewed before the end of the season, but considered it very carefully. It's a long old trek to Cardiff on a Sunday night, and the thought of being able to pick a choose seemed attractive... it is only because those I sit with renewed that I also took the plunge.
That saving is pervasive, but it is the deferred benefit conundrum. The saving is only really apparent at the end of the season (if at all).
The club could offer a few perks that would cost them little, or even nothing. Open practice sessions, social events just for season ticket holders, maybe a discount off Devils merch.
If non-ST holders don't like it, tough. Quit your mewling, or get a ST.