The Arena Manchester used is one of the busiest in the world. Granted without Manchester Storm thanks to some poor business management by the owner, but the facility thanks to its concept has been a success. I hope IAW is successful and the current situations at the Devils remains. lf wanting a larger successful facility and a secure successful Hockey sport in Cardiff and the UK is boring, well l can live with that. If Ice Sheffield is making a profit, even doing the events shown in the photo, then good for them, would those same events held at the IAW make it profitable, I'd prefer you to show the figures generated as opposed to photos to prove a point not relevant to the issue, as stated Sheffield is charity run, non for profit and also part of a much larger organisation, IAW does not have that option.
New Arena
- Thread starter StevenBletsoe
- Start date
I clearly stated the opinions are pre, that's before the current situation. So adding the changes since new ownership indicates you have read very little or failed to comprehend my views, which are continuing in my opinion written here. Cardiff now has IAW, the rink clearly built. Will the building remain a rink if it losses money, l have no idea. Are the chances it will loose money, in my opinion yes. Will the owners of the rink fund the loss, in my opinion, no. Will the whole project, ski slope, hotel and retail complete, in my opinion, no. Would a complex with multiple applications and facilities either as one arena or adjacent buildings, the rink being one, yes. Should this have been done yrs ago, yes, in my opinion, the several various designs and operators who pulled out of the current development specs proves the concept is flawed. It's taken far to long to get to this stage. Add the celtic manor plans to have a conference facility puts extra stress on the IAW as it's proposed 4,000 seater.
In making the statement IAW will not make a profit but a loss do you feel you have a correct grasp on the income streams of the facility. I ask as the WNIR was in profit. The BBT is in profit. Why would they cost historical and new revenue streams at a loss. You seem to believe the main pad will run as a conventional arena business plan. I seem to think I'll be skating on it twice a week paying ice time costs for the pleasure. Ice time costs that will cover overheads plus a bit of cream on top. Just what is this fatally flawed business plan that scares you so much.
I think I've finally worked out what you are trying to say.
Instead of building a twin-pad ice rink that can be used for multiple ice sports, as well as an indoor ski-slope and snowbox - you would have built a 12,000 seat arena that could be used to host ice hockey games but it's primary function would be concerts and exhibitions?
So it would have been no use for public skating, junior hockey, figure skating, rec hockey, curling etc.
Fair enough. I think you are totally wrong but that's your opinion.
There is one main problem with your idea though - and that is where the 12,000 Entertainment Arena would be built. Because it couldn't be built on the Sports Village site. Due to an EU grant that was used to reclaim the land it had to be used for sport. In fact I think it had to be used for water, ice and snow sports.
So your idea is completely independent of what is being built at the ISV. If a 12,000 arena in the city centre is viable then it will go ahead. The construction of IAW will have no impact on it as the overlap between the two projects is minimal.
Instead of building a twin-pad ice rink that can be used for multiple ice sports, as well as an indoor ski-slope and snowbox - you would have built a 12,000 seat arena that could be used to host ice hockey games but it's primary function would be concerts and exhibitions?
So it would have been no use for public skating, junior hockey, figure skating, rec hockey, curling etc.
Fair enough. I think you are totally wrong but that's your opinion.
There is one main problem with your idea though - and that is where the 12,000 Entertainment Arena would be built. Because it couldn't be built on the Sports Village site. Due to an EU grant that was used to reclaim the land it had to be used for sport. In fact I think it had to be used for water, ice and snow sports.
So your idea is completely independent of what is being built at the ISV. If a 12,000 arena in the city centre is viable then it will go ahead. The construction of IAW will have no impact on it as the overlap between the two projects is minimal.
Last time I checked, the Ice Arena will be part of a larger complex. It is Phase 1 of a multi-phase development which also includes a snow slope (one of the deliverable requirements for EU funding) and snow-play area, restaurants and retail units, conference/meeting facilities, hotel, parking for the whole development (including existing pool and other facilities) and possibly a few more bits as well.
Where's your argument?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Where's your argument?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
There are always "issues" in one form or another...it's part and parcel of any such development. If you think you know something tangible/concrete then please feel free to share, rather than "I know something no-one else knows".
Excuse my cynicism but you seem to have a tendency to come on here and spout negative comments about anything and everything to do with the development.
Anyone would think that you have a vested interest in its failure.
Excuse my cynicism but you seem to have a tendency to come on here and spout negative comments about anything and everything to do with the development.
Anyone would think that you have a vested interest in its failure.
So IAW is built as an ice-sports facility.
Based on assumptions...Cardiff gets a 12K seat multipurpose venue (as well as existing Motorpoint and St. David's Hall). Newport gets a 4K seat multipurpose venue. Bristol gets a 4K seat multipurpose venue. (Of course, let's also assume that for some reason neither of these projects is dogged by the "inadequacies" of the developers and council in this case, and that all will sail through planning stages and development without a single delay or hiccup).
How exactly does either of those 3 impact a dedicated ice-sports facility? Extra competition? For what? Let's set aside Newport and Bristol for a second...and a new 12K seat venue in Cardiff...Even with existing facilities in Cardiff there would be competition for "venues requiring seating for large numbers for events". In the simplest possible terms...their intended function/purpose is different. Not the same business model. Not the same market.
Based on assumptions...Cardiff gets a 12K seat multipurpose venue (as well as existing Motorpoint and St. David's Hall). Newport gets a 4K seat multipurpose venue. Bristol gets a 4K seat multipurpose venue. (Of course, let's also assume that for some reason neither of these projects is dogged by the "inadequacies" of the developers and council in this case, and that all will sail through planning stages and development without a single delay or hiccup).
How exactly does either of those 3 impact a dedicated ice-sports facility? Extra competition? For what? Let's set aside Newport and Bristol for a second...and a new 12K seat venue in Cardiff...Even with existing facilities in Cardiff there would be competition for "venues requiring seating for large numbers for events". In the simplest possible terms...their intended function/purpose is different. Not the same business model. Not the same market.
Like l stated time will tell. The bay area is the dumping ground for projects that needed to be moved. We have what was once sold as an Olympic Village, now we have a winter sports complex. Surrounded by A pool and white water complex, Toys R Us and Morrisons.
Other cities are doing far better. The only hotel group to show interest in the "Tower" have pulled out, the city and bay area has more than enough food outlets and shops. What this area needs is not what is proposed, phase 2 is far from being built, businesses are not interested. Personally I'd love a ski slope, he'll I'd love a multi purpose venue to include other winter sports, but does Wales have enough people with the cash to spend on skiing etc to justify a viable business. In my opinion no.
Am l wrong, it's possible, situations change. It's not about being right or wrong, it's simply my opinion, gained from speaking to peeps involved in the feasibility studies and business likely to be attracted. Does Todd's and the new owners ambition stop here, no l don't in my opinion believe it does, is that good for Cardiff, it's an amazing opportunity not just for Cardiff but for UK Ice Hockey. It's my opinion but in my opinion Cardiff needs to get behind it and hate it or not in my opinion the Devils deserved and should have had far more support and a large arena. will Cardiff support and grow. That's the issue, the new arena opening I'd be surprised if attendances don't go hyper and people left disappointed.
I'm not happy with the slogan Happy Hockey Day, l want f88)in amazing hockey day. I want a proper game with a professional structure, more home grown talent, better ref's, proper player conditions and basically hockey eutopia.
Sorry if that's wrong, but hey, tough.
In my opinion I'm not alone in those goals.
Other cities are doing far better. The only hotel group to show interest in the "Tower" have pulled out, the city and bay area has more than enough food outlets and shops. What this area needs is not what is proposed, phase 2 is far from being built, businesses are not interested. Personally I'd love a ski slope, he'll I'd love a multi purpose venue to include other winter sports, but does Wales have enough people with the cash to spend on skiing etc to justify a viable business. In my opinion no.
Am l wrong, it's possible, situations change. It's not about being right or wrong, it's simply my opinion, gained from speaking to peeps involved in the feasibility studies and business likely to be attracted. Does Todd's and the new owners ambition stop here, no l don't in my opinion believe it does, is that good for Cardiff, it's an amazing opportunity not just for Cardiff but for UK Ice Hockey. It's my opinion but in my opinion Cardiff needs to get behind it and hate it or not in my opinion the Devils deserved and should have had far more support and a large arena. will Cardiff support and grow. That's the issue, the new arena opening I'd be surprised if attendances don't go hyper and people left disappointed.
I'm not happy with the slogan Happy Hockey Day, l want f88)in amazing hockey day. I want a proper game with a professional structure, more home grown talent, better ref's, proper player conditions and basically hockey eutopia.
Sorry if that's wrong, but hey, tough.
In my opinion I'm not alone in those goals.
What cities are doing far better than Cardiff? You often hear people from Swansea and Bristol complaining that Cardiff is getting things that they should.
The ski slope isn't just for Wales though. It will attract people from the South West and Avon area. The next nearest indoor facility would be either Milton Keynes of Tamworth I think? The same with the twin-pad ice rink.
If a 12,000 arena is viable for Cardiff it will still be built. But not at the expense of an ice rink or ski-slope. If we are selling out the rink every week and a bigger arena is built too - surely there is nothing stopping the club playing some games there too as a trial?
So everyone would be happy.
The ski slope isn't just for Wales though. It will attract people from the South West and Avon area. The next nearest indoor facility would be either Milton Keynes of Tamworth I think? The same with the twin-pad ice rink.
If a 12,000 arena is viable for Cardiff it will still be built. But not at the expense of an ice rink or ski-slope. If we are selling out the rink every week and a bigger arena is built too - surely there is nothing stopping the club playing some games there too as a trial?
So everyone would be happy.
I would love a 12,000 seat arena full of Devils fans - but not at the expense of a twin pad facility ideally suited to all ice users. A big arena has no benefit to the juniors, rec teams or figure skaters.
As Finny has said, if it is feasible it will be built. If we outgrow 3,100 and the option of the 12,000 seat is there for the Devils I'm sure it will be looked at. At this stage the priority was not the Devils but for all ice users, not that the Devils are losers in it - far from it.
Personally I do think the big arena will happen. The council are keen (completely different to the unwanted ice rink situation) and the CIA is old, an eye sore and not big enough. Whether we end up there at some point I have no idea.
As Finny has said, if it is feasible it will be built. If we outgrow 3,100 and the option of the 12,000 seat is there for the Devils I'm sure it will be looked at. At this stage the priority was not the Devils but for all ice users, not that the Devils are losers in it - far from it.
Personally I do think the big arena will happen. The council are keen (completely different to the unwanted ice rink situation) and the CIA is old, an eye sore and not big enough. Whether we end up there at some point I have no idea.