Giants Vs Devils - League - 6th Nov 22 - 16:00 FO

[terry hunt]

I agree Moggy i was not a fan of Dupont as a player but the club also had him lined up as a future coach.
The Skalde problem and other issues outside his control have not allowed him to progress.He obviously would not refuse the job when offered and the Playoff win probably gave the club false idea about his readiness.
I suspect he was handed the squad and may realise that our explayers coming back was not a good idea.
I wonder if he had an hand in gassing Carruth and Register who were 2 of our best players.He knew these players but would have had little knowledge of Bowns,Martin and Jardine.
I suspect we need new blood if our budget permits but who do you change.
We appear to have a strong bench with Hendo,Franny and TK to back him.
If this was a soccer team i suspect we would have a clear out but looking at other EIHL clubs that doesnt seem to have worked for them.

 

[august04 2.0]

A few words and thoughts following on from yesterday.

Players have exposed themselves now, going to be make or break for a few of them - if it's not already too late, that is.

https://www.dai-sport.com/dismal-devils-defeat-puts-roster-under-the-spotlight/

Good piece there.

 

[moggy#9]

I agree Moggy i was not a fan of Dupont as a player but the club also had him lined up as a future coach.
The Skalde problem and other issues outside his control have not allowed him to progress.He obviously would not refuse the job when offered and the Playoff win probably gave the club false idea about his readiness.
I suspect he was handed the squad and may realise that our explayers coming back was not a good idea.
I wonder if he had an hand in gassing Carruth and Register who were 2 of our best players.He knew these players but would have had little knowledge of Bowns,Martin and Jardine.
I suspect we need new blood if our budget permits but who do you change.
We appear to have a strong bench with Hendo,Franny and TK to back him.
If this was a soccer team i suspect we would have a clear out but looking at other EIHL clubs that doesnt seem to have worked for them.

I think that the club needs to be clear here that no one can be above criticism. There's been far too much sentimentality among the fan base, and some unpalatable decisions could end up getting made in the coming days, weeks and months.

 

[moggy#9]

Good piece there.

Credit where it's due. It can be a fine line to tread between saying what needs to be said and upsetting people in authority. I think this article does that.

 

[kingmo19.1]

We seem to be the Man Utd of the EIHL at the moment, a few square pegs in round holes and unpredictability in terms of results.

We seem capable of beating the majority of teams but evidently are not as strong as Guildford, Sheffield or Belfast this season.

I guess the powers that be have 2 Choices:-

1. Keep going with what we’ve got and hopefully improve as we progress.

2. Switch out 2-3 players.

Certainly a tricky one! Would be interested in what people think.

So let’s hear what folks think.

You are the GM:-

How long would you be prepared to stick with option 1 ?

If option 2 would be your direction, where do you strengthen ?

 

[Kevlar68]

I think the problem is all the leagues are in full swing now and if the players we took on board were the best out there for what our game plan was who is left out there to sign?
We have picked up the odd great player but we need more than one.
Also if there was better coaches out there in pre-season but they have found teams who will we pick up if Dupont was to go and would they want to coach the team we have?
So many questions, it's not so cut and dried.

 

[kingmo19.1]

Fully understand Kev. Just annoys me that the threads after a loss descend into slanging matches with sweeping generalisations (ie, somebody said this team is shit). I’m interested to hear how people propose things are turned around - let’s hear solutions! Easy to call out the management/coach/team, but let’s hear YOUR solution!

Anyone bold/brave enough to provide it ?

 

[Pembo]

I think we’ve seen a lot of passion in this thread. Realistically financially it’s going to be hard to out recruit Belfast and Sheffield as budgets are not the same and they get usually about twice the gate we can when full. These days we’re realistically competing against the mid tier teams with a punchers chance of a cup or playoff win. Last nights result should be a reminder of what it must be like to be a Panthers fan season in season out so no matter how hard it gets we should always be thankful we don’t support Nottingham [shudders]….

 

[Ejercito Rojas]

I seem to remember losing to m Nottingham 0-8 at home when Lord was here.
Yes it hurts has fans . But calling players shit no good gas the lot of them ect is not doing any good IMO.
This is the time to.get behind them show are support be loud and proud on Sunday night.
Game over move on let the team on and off the ice sort it out.

Yes, I remember it well. We were awful that night and everything the Panthers tried ended up in our net or so it seemed.
But, and here’s the difference, that performance that lead to that defeat was a blip, a one off, one of very few defeats that season.
The next weekend we got back on the horse and continued to steam roller the opposition on the way to a comfortable league title.

You talk about pride but where was the pride last night.
The team just quit!!!!!
Dupont was almost in tears in his interview.

Yes I’ll be there in my seat next weekend supporting my team but please don’t talk to me about pride!

 

[moggy#9]

Yes, I remember it well. We were awful that night and everything the Panthers tried ended up in our net or so it seemed.
But, and here’s the difference, that performance that lead to that defeat was a blip, a one off, one of very few defeats that season.
The next weekend we got back on the horse and continued to steam roller the opposition on the way to a comfortable league title.

You talk about pride but where was the pride last night.
The team just quit!!!!!
Dupont was almost in tears in his interview.

Yes I’ll be there in my seat next weekend supporting my team but please don’t talk to me about pride!

Yes, even the best seasons have blips. What we're witnessing here are a lot of chickens coming home to roost.

 

[OJLloyd2]

I admit I stopped watching after goal 7, but I have watched most games this season either in person or on the TV.

There are unfortunately a number of areas of concern.

1. Goaltending
Our starting goalie has a 90.00 save percentage, with a gaa of 3.2. That’s not good.
Backup has better stats, but I’m not sure a lot can be read into the Challenge Cup games.
Last season we gave up more shots, but our keeper kept us in a lot of games. We don’t seem to have that, and we certainly didn’t against Belfast.
There is also a lot to be said for our goalies being hung out to dry by the defence.

2. Defence
This is the area that concerns me the most right now. On Sunday we were, to be frank, dreadful.
Are these players suddenly awful? No. But the mass quitting that happened on Sunday was not acceptable.
I think our +/- has is somewhat misleading, and are artificially lifted by some high scoring games. I would suggest we are missing a shutdown defender, and we are seeing 2 or 3 players simply not performing at the required level. At times against Belfast we looked completely lost, and teams have quite often looked like they were on the PP in our zone whilst 5on5.

3. Attack
We have 7 players currently on our around a point per game. That’s usually a pretty good sign.
Of course we have to say the same about inflated score lines as we did about +/- for defenders. But it seems to suggest we score but can’t stop the other team scoring more than us.

Obviously you can dig deeper into stats and make arguments everywhere.

But the conclusion I came to on Sunday (and after the recent losses against Nottingham, Sheffield and Belfast) is that we probably need:

1. A new goalie.
2. At least one, but probably two defenders (with at least one Dman being gassed).
3. An effective second/third line forward, with one of the current crop being gassed.
4. A return to some more effective lines. CCS, Reid/Martin/Crandall for instance.

 

[moggy#9]

Fully understand Kev. Just annoys me that the threads after a loss descend into slanging matches with sweeping generalisations (ie, somebody said this team is shit). I’m interested to hear how people propose things are turned around - let’s hear solutions! Easy to call out the management/coach/team, but let’s hear YOUR solution!

Anyone bold/brave enough to provide it ?

I think that there might be a very big gap between what some of us might want and what might be practical. In terms of playing staff at least one defenceman needs to be replaced by a big body stay at home player, at least one forward needs to be replaced by someone who can actually visibly contribute and manage a game.

Realistically we might not be able to replace Dupont mid season, but we can reassess the style of game. Ideally that would mean more physicality, but if we had to become a trap team to avoid a repeat of last night, then so be it. Some actual leadership from the "leaders" on the team would be good too.

 

[jenks33]

To be fair i've got sympathy for Dupont. He wouldn't have been my choice as Head Coach but i believe our roster would look a lot different if the re-signings/new signings were his call. You just have to watch a couple of his pre-season interviews and you can just tell he wasn't completely satisfied with this roster. I think we would have a few more bigger bodies/grittier players if it was down to him.
I assume Todd and maybe Franny dealt with re-signing players during the 6 week gap between sacking Skalde and hiring Dupont. I think it's fair to say Todd likes to bring a core group of players back but he got it slightly wrong this time in my opinion. There are at least 3 players that were on last seasons roster that are very lucky to be here and unfortunately for Todd the return of Bowns/Jardine/Martin hasn't been a success so far.
As far as changes i think it's going to be difficult. Let's be honest you're not going to see dramatic changes mid-season and as we saw last season (with Coughler) sometimes just bringing in one player can really change things. If they were to gas anybody i think i'd be a bit nervous at the moment if i was Crawford or Thompson. Even though our PP has been poor we're still scoring enough goals to justify keeping the forward group as it is. I know Brittain and Penny haven't set the world alight but one has been inured and the other has improved. Reid and Crandall have been disappointing but i can't see them going anywhere. Looking at our D obviously Richie is fine and i can't see Louis, Batch or Jardine going anywhere (Jardine has been disappointing but he doesn't look fit to me). That leaves the other two...Although Crawford's points look good i think his vision on the PP has been disappointing and we've seen issues with his defensive game + discipline. After a bright start it's been a bit of a struggle for Thompson as well. He was brought in as a steady eddie that doesn't put a foot wrong. I'm not sure that's been the case lately.

I appreciate some members won't like to see me discussing names but there have been a couple of posts asking people to be honest regarding changes etc so that's just my opinion.

 

[lloyd_jeff]

I really feel sorry for Dupont, I think he was placed in an awkward situation, after Skalde got sacked he lost the couple of years to assist and grow. Now he’s in a position that will cause him stress & id be surprised if his confidence isn’t in pieces. Not only that, it’s not a great start to a coaching career elsewhere. I feel he’s gonna be the only victim in this, unless he pulls out some major changes and turns it around, then he’ll be our hero.

 

[osh]

To be fair i've got sympathy for Dupont. He wouldn't have been my choice as Head Coach but i believe our roster would look a lot different if the re-signings/new signings were his call. You just have to watch a couple of his pre-season interviews and you can just tell he wasn't completely satisfied with this roster. I think we would have a few more grittier players if it was down to him.
I assume Todd and maybe Franny dealt with re-signing players during the 6 week gap between sacking Skalde and hiring Dupont. I think it's fair to say Todd likes to bring a core group of players back but he got it slightly wrong this time in my opinion. There's at least 3 players that were on last seasons roster that are very lucky to be here and unfortunately for Todd the return of Bowns/Jardine/Martin hasn't been a success so far.
As far as changes i think it's going to be difficult. Let's be honest you're not going to see dramatic changes mid-season and as we saw last season (with Coughler) sometimes just bringing in one player can really change things. If they were to gas anybody i think i'd be a bit nervous at the moment if i was Crawford or Thompson. Even though our PP has been poor we're still scoring enough goals to justify keeping the forward group as it is. I know Brittain and Penny haven't set the world alight but one has been inured and the other has improved. Reid and Crandall have been disappointing but i can't see them going anywhere. Looking at our D obviously Richie is fine and i can't see Louis, Batch or Jardine going anywhere (Jardine has been disappointing but he doesn't look fit to me). That leaves the other two...Although Crawford's points look good i think his vision on the PP has been disappointing and we've seen issues with his defensive game + discipline. After a bright start it's been a bit of a struggle for Thompson as well. He was brought in as a steady eddie that doesn't put a foot wrong. I'm not sure that's been the case lately.

I appreciate some members won't like to see me discussing names but there have been a couple of posts asking people to be honest regarding changes etc so that's just my opinion.

I agree with the above and give you credit for naming names where necessary. There is no doubt in my mind that changes are needed, not major changes but certainly at least one new D ( preferably 2 ) and one forward and you have already mentioned those walking a tightrope at this time. I’m sure our owners, coach, management and back room staff are all as disappointed and hugely embarrassed by last nights pitiful showing ( on top of many other very lethargic team performances this season ) will they be brave enough to make changes ? Who knows at this time, but let’s face it, I would say the vast majority of fans - certainly those I speak with - and many of those on this forum are crying out for changes to be made. Let’s not shy away either from the fact that previous returning favourites Martin, Bowns and Jardine are letting themselves down with inconsistant performances that just don’t inspire a poor performing team.

 

[Mooney#16]

A whole bunch of the forwards should be on immediate notice in fairness and I include Brits in that. Beyond Martin, Coughler and Brandt I would be ripping all of them a new one. Too inconsistent, too peripheral, lack of compete, lack of physicality, lack of hockey iq and a lack of commitment to play in the dirty areas of the game like the slots and net fronts. The forwards really need the riot act reading especially Reid, Crandall, Brittain, Penny and Duggan who are being carried by others while stealing shifts of the likes of Brandt.

I don’t actually have a huge issue with the D as Jards is clearly playing banged up and doing what he can and the rest are doing ok but the puck just keeps coming back at them due to ineffective puck retention in the forwards. Crawford seems to need to sharpen up a bit and do things with more purpose and authority. My main criticism of the d is they don’t control the slot well enough. You can’t stop a shot being taken but you can win the battles for rebounds by tying up the opposition better.

Battle drills all around this week. This team needs to play with a chip on its shoulder and a major F you complex towards opposition teams.

 

[JC23]

A whole bunch of the forwards should be on immediate notice in fairness and I include Brits in that. Beyond Martin, Coughler and Brandt I would be ripping all of them a new one. Too inconsistent, too peripheral, lack of compete, lack of physicality, lack of hockey iq and a lack of commitment to play in the dirty areas of the game like the slots and net fronts. The forwards really need the riot act reading especially Reid, Crandall, Brittain, Penny and Duggan who are being carried by others while stealing shifts of the likes of Brandt.

I don’t actually have a huge issue with the D as Jards is clearly playing banged up and doing what he can and the rest are doing ok but the puck just keeps coming back at them due to ineffective puck retention in the forwards. Crawford seems to need to sharpen up a bit and do things with more purpose and authority. My main criticism of the d is they don’t control the slot well enough. You can’t stop a shot being taken but you can win the battles for rebounds by tying up the opposition better.

Battle drills all around this week. This team needs to play with a chip on its shoulder and a major F you complex towards opposition teams.

It’s interesting to me that you name Martin as someone who is in the “doing well” camp, but not Cox or Sanford…

Personally Martin has been a massive let down, along with Jardine.

 

[moggy#9]

It’s interesting to me that you name Martin as someone who is in the “doing well” camp, but not Cox or Sanford…

Personally Martin has been a massive let down, along with Jardine.

I was going to basically say the same thing. Be careful criticizing Martin though. There'll be people out with pitchforks for you.

 

[Rempel16]

It’s interesting to me that you name Martin as someone who is in the “doing well” camp, but not Cox or Sanford…

Personally Martin has been a massive let down, along with Jardine.

It's a tough call, but I think Mooney is spot on.

Cox and Sandford are great when they're on it, but how often are they on it? Belfast and Coventry games recently (both at home), I didn't notice either until late in the game. Many of their points are scored in bunches (multi goal and multi assist games)

Martin has come back into a team that is playing a different style, expectedly, and he's been required to adapt to that - but the compete level is there and his form has improved greatly since the early season.

 

[JC23]

It's a tough call, but I think Mooney is spot on.

Cox and Sandford are great when they're on it, but how often are they on it? Belfast and Coventry games recently (both at home), I didn't notice either until late in the game. Many of their points are scored in bunches (multi goal and multi assist games)

Martin has come back into a team that is playing a different style, expectedly, and he's been required to adapt to that - but the compete level is there and his form has improved greatly since the early season.

I get what you’re saying.

For me personally, I can’t see past the fact that without Sanford (and Coughler admittedly) we’d have scored no real number of goals this season so far. Coughler has 15, Sanford 16 the closest player to them goals wise? Brodie Reid, with 8 goals, who has now dropped down to our third line.