CDRA Open letter

[chillee]

Without fans, there is no income, without income there is no team, without team there is no need for an owner.

Its a simple concept.

Ice Hockey in the UK has a limited fan base, even Cardiff in the 90's winning titles the crowd numbers where nothing great. A new rink and a title winning team is not going to make the club anything more than break even, in fact the very size of the rink indicates the developers don't expect numbers to improve greatly. People arn't about to pay ticket prices for a sport they have never watched just because it has won a title nobody outside the sport has ever heard off. TV companies are unwilling to place the sport on TV, why ? simple's, only a very very very small minority of peeps watch it.

So understanding you have a unique, small income source means you need to protect it, not alienate yourself from it. No fan wants to dictate how the club is run, afterall there not the owners, but dismissing them, underestimating them and frankly pi88 them right off is not really good business sense.

Someone really needs to stop with the amateur interviews, keep their comments in the office and start to employ PR people to massage the fans ego's, a turd can be polished if the person is kept unaware its a turd. ickle

 

[Amazepux]

As a fan of another club i actually think more highly of the devils fans than before as they have shown on here what the future success of the team means to them..i applaud those who want to standup for theyre club.. I also respect those who choose not to protest..

 

[KaneDevils]

It's obvious to me really. Fans from other teams have been drafted in to make up the numbers. As Ragan rightfully says, it is the small minority. I can't honestly think of any other reason.

Quite sad really. You have to question SOME people's agenda.

 

[Wannabe2]

It's obvious to me really. Fans from other teams have been drafted in to make up the numbers. As Ragan rightfully says, it is the small minority. I can't honestly think of any other reason.

Quite sad really. You have to question SOME people's agenda.

And who's paying for this drafting, or are these away fans so sad they ain't got anything else to do on a Thursday night, and they don't have work tomorrow, duh.

 

[KaneDevils]

See the picture on the Devils Panthers thread. They don't actually have to travel to cardiff and stand outside the rink.

God give me strength.

 

[Have Hope#35]

Great result for the Devils... Just out of curiosity how many people protested after?

 

[James]

Various estimates from 30~ to 120. General consensus is somewhere around 50.

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

Various estimates from 30~ to 120. General consensus is somewhere around 50.

I counted 95 after a few left for start of game, who else counted ? I know you opposed it James but its quite easy to count to 100, no need to be so dismissive, I was waiting for the Devils TV interview for that

 

[Have Hope#35]

Various estimates from 30~ to 120. General consensus is somewhere around 50.

I counted 95 after a few left for start of game, who else counted ?

Can't include the people getting a Pizza :lol:
Not many then!

 

[James]

Various estimates from 30~ to 120. General consensus is somewhere around 50.

I counted 95 after a few left for start of game, who else counted ? I know you opposed it James but its quite easy to count to 100, no need to be so dismissive, I was waiting for the Devils TV interview for that

I wasn't outside Jody, I was inside and only going on what I was told. Like I said the general consensus was around 50. I wasn't being dismissive only reporting what was said #inside. Fortunately it was a large crowd for a great game #inside.

 

[Soundwave1]

Various estimates from 30~ to 120. General consensus is somewhere around 50.

I counted 95 after a few left for start of game, who else counted ? I know you opposed it James but its quite easy to count to 100, no need to be so dismissive, I was waiting for the Devils TV interview for that

I was told 50-60 by people who were outside who I trust FWIW. Either way there were a lot more people inside I guess. Seemed like a big crowd for a midweek game and at least we were all treated to a beauty

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

Various estimates from 30~ to 120. General consensus is somewhere around 50.

I counted 95 after a few left for start of game, who else counted ? I know you opposed it James but its quite easy to count to 100, no need to be so dismissive, I was waiting for the Devils TV interview for that

I wasn't outside Jody, I was inside and only going on what I was told. Like I said the general consensus was around 50. I wasn't being dismissive only reporting what was said #inside. Fortunately it was a large crowd for a great game #inside.

Pleased it was a large crowd for a great game, its the long term I am concerned about as you know. Replacing long term week in week out customers is no easy task, they can't keep taking them for granted. Times are difficult and customers and sponsors can only be kept by working at relationships and providing a good product particularly in the leisure industry as these are the first cutbacks when family budgets are tight.

However you look at it 30, 50, 100, 120 unsatisfied customers is 30. 50, 100, 120 too many. If that many are prepared to stand out in the cold on a January night you can bet there are a few more who couldn't attend due to other reasons, feel it wouldn't change anything, were bullied in to tent by threats of you cant be a steward any more, or just didn't want to pick either side whatever. It still shows Ragan has under estimated the feeling against the way he represents the name of the Cardiff Devils and by association the City of Cardiff. We already have one Egomaniac representing a club in Cardiff

 

[Finny]

I did a quick estimate when I got there at 7.15ish and there was around 75. It increased to about 90 when a number left just before half past, and then increased again a couple of minutes latter bizarrely. At its most id say at least 100 maybe as many as 120. If you include the people who stayed for 10-15 mins before going in to catch the start of the game it could be as much as 150.

 

[DevilDom]

Really sad that some people are trying to turn this into a numbers game to discredit the protest.

I was there and the first count was 95 followed by another after more people had arrived which was over 100 (I didn't hear the final figure).

Whatever the figure it was a lot more than 20 and I also know more dissatisfied fans who chose not to express their dissatisfaction in that way. I am happy that a point was made and I hope (and pray) that management take note and perhaps makes some moves to improve the situation, however I won't be holding my breath.

Also like to add, I applaud the CDRA members who took the time to come out and take notes to feed back to management.

 

[Soundwave1]

Really sad that some people are trying to turn this into a numbers game to discredit the protest..

I'm not sure who this is aimed at, but to clarify that's not what I'm doing and sounds like it's not what James is doing. (perhaps it's happening on twitter?)

I'm merely reporting what I was told by friends I trust, who of course I'm going to believe over people i've never met (as we all would)

As I said, the main thing is everyone got to enjoy a fantastic hockey game, which for me at least is the reason I go to watch

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

Really sad that some people are trying to turn this into a numbers game to discredit the protest..

I'm not sure who this is aimed at, but to clarify that's not what I'm doing and sounds like it's not what James is doing. (perhaps it's happening on twitter?)

I'm merely reporting what I was told by friends I trust, who of course I'm going to believe over people i've never met (as we all would)

As I said, the main thing is everyone got to enjoy a fantastic hockey game, which for me at least is the reason I go to watch

And long may that continue, but some of the managements decision have danted the passion of some fans and that cannot be right

 

[toy_car_uk]

I also counted 95, I know Jason counted 94.

I heard 3rd hand during the protest, that people had been told if they left the BBT to join in the protest they would not be allowed to re-enter. I highlighted this to John-Paul Donovan, who straight away went to into the BBT to find out if this was the case. On his return he informed me he had been told it is normal practise not to let people leave/re-enter the BBT until after the end of the 1st. He also said he had been told no one had asked to leave. Since arriving home I have seen a report from someone that they where prevented from leaving the BBT to joining the protest.

If further cases of this happened, please say so. If you want to have the opportunity to express your concerns to John-Paul Donovan like the rest of us have, contact him via the CDRA.

I have also been advised some that wanted to join the protest did not for fear of repercussions. I don't want to go into too much detail as I don't want to lose their confidence. But one very worrying accusation that if true and I have no reason to doubt it, is frankly IMO bullying from within the club. I also heard 3rd hand that this same tactic had been used on others before hearing it from the persons it had been used on. I would urge them to speak up, get it out in the open and tackle the bully head on.

Can I ask the CDRA investigate a truly anonymously way of collecting feed back from anyone that may fear any form of reprisal for speaking out?

Last but no means least thank you to the members of CDRA who took the time to listen and take notes.

 

[toy_car_uk]

Out of interest, what are the protestors hoping to achieve by encouraging fans of other teams to join in on the protest?

I've just logged into twitter and there are more people from other teams than Devils fans seemingly tweeting #devilsoutside, have these away team fans been made aware of something the rest of us haven't?

I can't see what the end game is for this, are we hoping getting away team fans on board will stop them coming to Cardiff for away games in protest or something? How quickly do the club have to sort out whatever issues there are, or is the protest going to be an ongoing thing from now?

I can't and don't speak for everyone, but I took part in #DevilsOutside as I fear the actions of Ragan and Pope will continue drive many long term fans away from the club. Once they have gone it will be difficult to entice them back or replace them. I fear it is start of a downward spiral and as others in the community start to drift away it will ultimately lead to the demise of the Cardiff Devils. I hope tonight was successfully, and enough noise has been made to make the organisation realise they have a problem before its to late. The first step in addressing that problem is for Mr Ragan to acknowledge we have one.

My perception is that fans of other teams want to show support, not that they are being encouraged. I haven't seen any solicitation of from people taking part to fans of other clubs, I have however seen numerous fans saying they want to show support.

At no point have I seen anyone encouraging a boycott of games, either Devils fans or away fans. In fact, I am aware of some going to the game tonight because they took part in the protest, when original they where not planning to attend a mid week game.

At this time, there is no plans for a further protests. The ball is with Mr Ragan.

 

[KaneDevils]

Numbers game? But surely the amount of people #outside is relevant to most if not all. Which would explain why all the protesters each had a little count up, which is cute.
I still Don't get how supposed bad communication and arrogance from management can take away your passion for the best sport there is. Enjoy it while you can I say!

 

[DevilDom]

It is a numbers game because Paul Ragan has constantly dismissed the concerns of some fans by stating things like its only a minority or militia of 20 or so people. The fact that there was around 5 times that there and many others who couldn't be there will hopefully make him take heed. As I said I heard 2 counts confirming that. I also heard people had been put under pressure not to attend by the club which is ironic given the false accusation from PR that people were being bullied into attending.