The point is Paul I do agree with a lot of the issues people are expressing. If however there isn't a common goal or accord to the protest then in my opinion, which is just my opinion but may be shared with others, it is rendered worthless as the intent of those participating can't be gauged. Speak out on behalf of those who are planning on protesting. They haven't protested yet and can agree with you as the instigator by standing with you or choose not to participate but at least you'll have a unified voice. If it's going to be 'Ragan Out' say so, if its 'Better treatment for players' so be it. I have no intention of standing outside as I don't believe it's helpful and more likely to do harm than good. You plan on standing outside. That's your prerogative. At least make it worthwhile
CDRA Open letter
- Thread starter Sheincar
- Start date
The problem is one of message. Ragan turns around and says "I hear you brothers" what message is he hearing?
Do you want him to sit at the table and debate? Do you want him to sack someone who, until recently, was hailed as some sort of living embodiment of the Cardiff Devils?
You say "stop player mistreatment" but that is a very opaque and uncertain thing. What are the checks and balances? Who is the arbiter? The fans only know hearsay and rumour.
No-one is picking sides or trying to say that it is wrong to have a low opinion of the club, but when you send a message you need to make sure the message is clear.
If the message is "Sack Ragan" and/or "sack Pope" I wouldn't be marching as I don't think that is a constructive end goal at this juncture. If it's "sit and talk, there is a level of general unrest" then I'd probably be there with my "let's have a nice chat" banner.
Do you want him to sit at the table and debate? Do you want him to sack someone who, until recently, was hailed as some sort of living embodiment of the Cardiff Devils?
You say "stop player mistreatment" but that is a very opaque and uncertain thing. What are the checks and balances? Who is the arbiter? The fans only know hearsay and rumour.
No-one is picking sides or trying to say that it is wrong to have a low opinion of the club, but when you send a message you need to make sure the message is clear.
If the message is "Sack Ragan" and/or "sack Pope" I wouldn't be marching as I don't think that is a constructive end goal at this juncture. If it's "sit and talk, there is a level of general unrest" then I'd probably be there with my "let's have a nice chat" banner.
Couldn't agree more... Without a clear message the protest has no value at all, it's just a load of people having a moan (Social Media goes 'Live')! I for one will be avoiding the game all together as it's just too embarrassing and cringe worthy. Do I think Ragan is in the wrong, Yes! Is this the answer, Not by a long stretch.
I agree the club can do without over 100 paying fans, current sponsors and volunteers. Surely posts like yours are far more divisive than a group of fans showing displeasure in a way that does not affect fans attending the game?
If PR ignores the protest then those attending won't be put out as the status quo will remain, if the club decides to act with more respect for it's fans, players and sponsors then everybody wins?
If PR ignores the protest then those attending won't be put out as the status quo will remain, if the club decides to act with more respect for it's fans, players and sponsors then everybody wins?
James as already has been stated those who stand outside are doing so in protest at the way PR treats fans, sponsors and players with total disrespect. Also stated is that it is up to each individual as to wether they protest or not so why you got to keep on about it is pointless.
As already stated if you want to protest then you are welcome to stand outside and if you don't then nobody is forcing you. So please don't keep on.
Yes there are many other reasons that may be why people will stand outside but you fail to grasp the main reasons that those who will be outside are there for and by the way if someone is refusing to move from your spot that you have paid for then go and see a steward or security as they will assist you
Just a question to all - has anybody lost a friendship because of this protest going on as all I am reading is hostile and belittling comments from people against the protest ?
As already stated if you want to protest then you are welcome to stand outside and if you don't then nobody is forcing you. So please don't keep on.
Yes there are many other reasons that may be why people will stand outside but you fail to grasp the main reasons that those who will be outside are there for and by the way if someone is refusing to move from your spot that you have paid for then go and see a steward or security as they will assist you
Just a question to all - has anybody lost a friendship because of this protest going on as all I am reading is hostile and belittling comments from people against the protest ?
Now you are speaking for all the fans standing outside? That's not the reason Paul is standing outside according to the interview. If that's the common goal and reason then that's fine. Amusingly, as people no doubt realise, I have some disagreements with Mr Sullivan, which while not exclusively do include the way my company as sponsors, were treated by him when he was at the club. Funny old world
Exactly and as i said in another thread i dont believe Pope is doing Ragan any favours. He is the one with the agenda an unfortunately for some reason Ragan thinks the sun shines out of Pope posterior........
Whilst Ragan believes that it is only 20 people that are unhappy he'll carry on being dismissive and disrespectful. If it means not losing ST holders next year then surely it is better for him to acknowledge there is a problem now.
Whilst Ragan believes that it is only 20 people that are unhappy he'll carry on being dismissive and disrespectful. If it means not losing ST holders next year then surely it is better for him to acknowledge there is a problem now.
400 people stood outside the WNIR in 2001 when we were pulling in crowds of 1500-2000. Lots of damage done.
A year after that the guy who everyone stood outside against was back inside along with everyone else and in some quarters that man has been called for to return.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Also I should point out a number of people who will protest tomorrow have been invited for meetings all year with the management, and have either declined to show up, or arranged a time and then just not shown up at all. It takes two to tango as the saying goes. And let's be honest both sides have been as bad as each other this year.
Sadly all that's happening at the moment is each side is feeding each others failures. but you know what is going to end up happening? WE ARE ALL GOING TO LOSE. No one wins from this.
It's all really silly to be honest. It's an ice hockey team, who you pay to go watch ice hockey. There is still ice hockey going on, go watch it, it's a really good sport. Over 300 people enjoyed it by traveling 100's of miles on the weekend. Be a shame to lose all of that over some personal spats that have spilled over, and some over inflated egos (social media accounts especially).
Your all adults, pick up the phone talk to each other like men. But please don't run the risk of ruining something me and my family enjoy because you THINK your way is the best way.
That message is for ALL fans (myself included) and players and management.
A year after that the guy who everyone stood outside against was back inside along with everyone else and in some quarters that man has been called for to return.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Also I should point out a number of people who will protest tomorrow have been invited for meetings all year with the management, and have either declined to show up, or arranged a time and then just not shown up at all. It takes two to tango as the saying goes. And let's be honest both sides have been as bad as each other this year.
Sadly all that's happening at the moment is each side is feeding each others failures. but you know what is going to end up happening? WE ARE ALL GOING TO LOSE. No one wins from this.
It's all really silly to be honest. It's an ice hockey team, who you pay to go watch ice hockey. There is still ice hockey going on, go watch it, it's a really good sport. Over 300 people enjoyed it by traveling 100's of miles on the weekend. Be a shame to lose all of that over some personal spats that have spilled over, and some over inflated egos (social media accounts especially).
Your all adults, pick up the phone talk to each other like men. But please don't run the risk of ruining something me and my family enjoy because you THINK your way is the best way.
That message is for ALL fans (myself included) and players and management.
Respect is a very slippery concept, especially as it has to be mutual to be of any value. I'm not sure everyone respects or shows respect to PR.
I am NOT taking PR's side (I think both sides are wrong in part, right in part), just restating the plea in the Open Letter:
We urge both Management and the #DevilsOutside group to pause and reflect on the potentially damaging effects that an irreconcilable rift between some long-standing fans and management might have, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of issues involved.
Also, whilst acknowledging that any and everyone has a right to protest, we would suggest that public protest should be a last resort, and is, therefore, premature,
Like so many posters have said, be clear about what the problem actually is? Respect? Then let's define it at a face to face debate, Chaired by a Moderator to keep the discussion rational, and see if the gap can't be narrowed.
I am NOT taking PR's side (I think both sides are wrong in part, right in part), just restating the plea in the Open Letter:
We urge both Management and the #DevilsOutside group to pause and reflect on the potentially damaging effects that an irreconcilable rift between some long-standing fans and management might have, irrespective of the rights and wrongs of issues involved.
Also, whilst acknowledging that any and everyone has a right to protest, we would suggest that public protest should be a last resort, and is, therefore, premature,
Like so many posters have said, be clear about what the problem actually is? Respect? Then let's define it at a face to face debate, Chaired by a Moderator to keep the discussion rational, and see if the gap can't be narrowed.
But this protest is not just about PS it's about every fan that stands outside. PS has stated his reasons and made it known that they are his and his only. Everybody else has their reasons but are united in reasons already stated.
Whilst I understand your personal reasons about how your company was treated by PS during his time employed by the Devils you fail to state who the owner was then because if it was PR I wouldn't be surprised if it was him who is responsible more than PS for the way your company was treated as this seems normal practise for PR to treat sponsors, ask any of last years or this years sponsors just make sure it isn't any company that PR owns or has a stake in
Whilst I understand your personal reasons about how your company was treated by PS during his time employed by the Devils you fail to state who the owner was then because if it was PR I wouldn't be surprised if it was him who is responsible more than PS for the way your company was treated as this seems normal practise for PR to treat sponsors, ask any of last years or this years sponsors just make sure it isn't any company that PR owns or has a stake in
Direct questions to paul sullivan
Which players have been mis treated and in what way?
Which fans have been mis treated and what was their mistreatment because of?
Which sponsers were mis treated in which way?
Im tired of hearing about rumours and hearsay. Lets get some facts out! A "I cant tell you but they have been" answer here will continue this mindless round in circles debate for longer. But thats what im expecting. Iv not seen a single player or sponser name mentioned except conboy who I would have sacked for being stupid myself.
Which players have been mis treated and in what way?
Which fans have been mis treated and what was their mistreatment because of?
Which sponsers were mis treated in which way?
Im tired of hearing about rumours and hearsay. Lets get some facts out! A "I cant tell you but they have been" answer here will continue this mindless round in circles debate for longer. But thats what im expecting. Iv not seen a single player or sponser name mentioned except conboy who I would have sacked for being stupid myself.
I don't want to drag my company into this particularly, it's done and dusted years ago. Yes Ragan was in charge, no, it was nothing to do with him. I've spoken to Shannon about it since and although it's just Pauls word against mine now I'm fully aware of the whys and wherefores. If you are happy to speak up for everyone other than Paul, who has stated his own wishes, you can at least protest with a common voice.
Spot on. Iv said the similar things previous.
People in life love to be martyrs. Id not give some the opportunity.
Its a sport to watch. And for a couple of thousand to enjoy without the bollox.
If u dont like the game dont come.
If u dont like club politics keep out the loop
If u don't like your 'friends' being gassed because their shit/underperforming or stupid stop cosying up to players you puck bunny!
People in life love to be martyrs. Id not give some the opportunity.
Its a sport to watch. And for a couple of thousand to enjoy without the bollox.
If u dont like the game dont come.
If u dont like club politics keep out the loop
If u don't like your 'friends' being gassed because their shit/underperforming or stupid stop cosying up to players you puck bunny!