Real Radio on Tuesday
- Thread starter mazza03
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Shouldn't be 'spreading' dangerous rumours OF ANY KIND! :x And all rumours are 'unsubstantiated' until they are confirmed....but can do an aweful lot of damage to confidence of fans and the organisation. :x Look at the unneccessary fuss it's already caused. What do you think the Club think about this? If this 'rumour' has originated from someone close to the Devils' organisation, it hardly illustrates individual integrity or discretion does it? I'm sure if the organisation wanted their budgets, players' wages and other pertinent business to be in the public domain, they would have made an announcement themselves. :roll:
Firstly, and very importantly, the person who mentioned the player budget cut to me was NOT a member of either the playing or coaching staff of the Cardiff Devils. I think this needs clarification as I would hate for anyone to mis-interpret that. However, the individual is someone who I consider very credible and has always been accurate in their information. Clearly I am not the only one who has heard this.
Given there was an increase in attendances last season, and coupled with the increase in ticket prices next season, I would have envisaged the playing budget would have at least stayed the same. On the one hand I have no issue if there was a cut to the budget as I appreciate the club has to do what is necessary to be financially viable to survive at EIHL level.
However, when I saw on this thread Paul Ragan being quoted as saying on Real Radio that he was 'putting a lot of money in to the club', it made me question where exactly that money has been invested if the playing budget is being cut back? As a supporter I feel there should be an evaluation of the amount of office staff the club employ and their roles, as I feel they are becoming a drain on finances which could be better spent putting the best team possible on the ice. I am led to believe that Nottingham (a side with three times our fan base), employ just three people in their office, which includes the owner who pops in for the odd day on a consultancy basis. I would also say in spite of how many office staff the Devils employ, the customer service is terrible, as I and a number of others can sadly testify.
First, I'd like to thank Centre Ice for replying and explaining his comments which have caused ' a bit of discussion'.
I could be wrong, but I think the "putting a lot of money into the club" was more to do with the bid for the new arena, rather than the day to day running of the club.
In which case that wouldn't affect the wages we were paying or the office staff we employ.
I really do feel though that cutting the number of office staff would be a backwards move and see the club possibly go backwards after two years of improvements. I've posted before that attendances are going up and up and IMO the staff are more than earning their worth.
Sacking staff and using that money to spend extra on players is just a short term fix. It could cause our attendances to drop and then next season we either have to keep sacking people til we have no office staff, or reduce our wage budget again and again until we are fighting with Hull and Newcastle at the bottom of the league.
I have no idea how many staff Nottingham employ, but I do find it hard to believe that it is just 3. So that would be Neil Black, Gary Moran and just one other?
Yet their own website suggests they also employ Simon Moor to deal with sponsorship. Sarah Longdon who is their secretary/administrator. And an unnamed person who deals with marketing and events.
So that would actually be 5 people?
It should also be worth remembering that Nottingham haven't had the problems we have and instead of having to rebuild its fanbase were able to go from a 2800 seater sold-out most weeks to a state of the art 6000 seat arena next door.
Plus, as far as I'm aware they have no junior development organisation connected to them.
Unless their match night entertainment has improved since I last went there - it is pretty much non-existant.
They have the worst website in the league with no video highlights or photos etc.
And according to their fans they don't have the best customer relations either.
I could be wrong, but I think the "putting a lot of money into the club" was more to do with the bid for the new arena, rather than the day to day running of the club.
In which case that wouldn't affect the wages we were paying or the office staff we employ.
I really do feel though that cutting the number of office staff would be a backwards move and see the club possibly go backwards after two years of improvements. I've posted before that attendances are going up and up and IMO the staff are more than earning their worth.
Sacking staff and using that money to spend extra on players is just a short term fix. It could cause our attendances to drop and then next season we either have to keep sacking people til we have no office staff, or reduce our wage budget again and again until we are fighting with Hull and Newcastle at the bottom of the league.
I have no idea how many staff Nottingham employ, but I do find it hard to believe that it is just 3. So that would be Neil Black, Gary Moran and just one other?
Yet their own website suggests they also employ Simon Moor to deal with sponsorship. Sarah Longdon who is their secretary/administrator. And an unnamed person who deals with marketing and events.
So that would actually be 5 people?
It should also be worth remembering that Nottingham haven't had the problems we have and instead of having to rebuild its fanbase were able to go from a 2800 seater sold-out most weeks to a state of the art 6000 seat arena next door.
Plus, as far as I'm aware they have no junior development organisation connected to them.
Unless their match night entertainment has improved since I last went there - it is pretty much non-existant.
They have the worst website in the league with no video highlights or photos etc.
And according to their fans they don't have the best customer relations either.
Finny your post again is spot on, Paul as you say was refering to the new arena when he mentioned about putting a lot of time and money into this adventure. Panthers game night entertainment is way way behind ours and thats a fact, as is most others in the league i may add, that doesnt mean that ours cant get better mind you, as nothing should ever stand still.
As Finny says, Paul Ragan's investment in the Club appears to be to help long term stability and more to do with the exciting prospect of a new home for the team, a big commitment and investment. Many supporters would feel secure in that knowledge and the Club is very lucky to have that kind of backing. 
What right has anyone got to suggest to Paul HOW he should invest his money? It's his perogative to do as he sees fit or is advised by professionals.
It's very easy for 'would-be armchair owners and coaches' to suggest that they could recuit better and to advise a successful proven businessman to sack the backroom staff! :lol:
What right has anyone got to suggest to Paul HOW he should invest his money? It's his perogative to do as he sees fit or is advised by professionals.
It's very easy for 'would-be armchair owners and coaches' to suggest that they could recuit better and to advise a successful proven businessman to sack the backroom staff! :lol:
If you'd written that he had invested in the arena, then I would not have even responded to this thread.
No, but the amount we are spending on office wages impacts on how much is left towards the playing budget.
I believe if any business consultant who went in to the club assessed all the office staff, and their duties at the end of the season, they could have seen that some staff were not required and their 'duties' could have been incorporated by others. This is not a short term fix, but prudent business management. The 'savings' could be invested in next season's playing budget as ultimately the club will prosper by how good the product is on the ice.
It could be very possible that maybe they were not including Black or Moran when they informed me of three staff. However, they were adamant it was three. Even allowing for them and making it five, it is still a few staff less than ours. Can anyone actually tell me now how many we employed by the end of the season and their job titles?
What is our match night entertainment, a couple of kids having a scrimmage and the odd highlight on the screen? I think the Nottingham announcer is excellent by the way.
I wouldn't expect their customer relations to be perfect, but they do have more than 3 times our fan base, and less staff to deal with them. Our customer service is terrible. I've said it before and I'll say it again in the future. The Devils as a business need to remember their a minority sport, with a small fan base, in a recession. All the more need to nurture their customers and not treat them so badly.
No, but the amount we are spending on office wages impacts on how much is left towards the playing budget.
I believe if any business consultant who went in to the club assessed all the office staff, and their duties at the end of the season, they could have seen that some staff were not required and their 'duties' could have been incorporated by others. This is not a short term fix, but prudent business management. The 'savings' could be invested in next season's playing budget as ultimately the club will prosper by how good the product is on the ice.
It could be very possible that maybe they were not including Black or Moran when they informed me of three staff. However, they were adamant it was three. Even allowing for them and making it five, it is still a few staff less than ours. Can anyone actually tell me now how many we employed by the end of the season and their job titles?
What is our match night entertainment, a couple of kids having a scrimmage and the odd highlight on the screen? I think the Nottingham announcer is excellent by the way.
I wouldn't expect their customer relations to be perfect, but they do have more than 3 times our fan base, and less staff to deal with them. Our customer service is terrible. I've said it before and I'll say it again in the future. The Devils as a business need to remember their a minority sport, with a small fan base, in a recession. All the more need to nurture their customers and not treat them so badly.
Apologies, but I was trying to listen and type as quickly as possible.
Does that not also though affect how much additional money we bring into the club, and so how much extra we might be able to add to the wagebudget? I think I worked out before that in the second half of the season we saw our average attendance increase by around 100 per game. That's around £1000 extra a week. Seems pretty good to me - so if we are having a wage budget reduction that can only mean we were spending beyond our means last season.
But you don't have any proof of that do you?
People have mentioned how we have more office staff now than we have in the past 10 years. Well the fact is that over the past ten years our averages attendancs fell and fell and only increased in the last two seasons. The last two seasons when we have employed more office staff.
I'm sure one person could do 'two jobs' but they certainly wouldn't be able to do spend as much time on those jobs. Say one person is arranging 5 school visits a day, and another is arranging meetings with 5 companies a day. Now one person could be sacked and the other do both jobs - but the simple fact is they would only be able arrange half the visits or meetings that were done in the past.
I also find it interesting that you suggest a Business Consultant would suggest they need less staff, whilst two millionaire businessmen have suggested otherwise. Plus in my experience a Business Consultant always tells you that you can save money just so they can get their fee.
Does that not also though affect how much additional money we bring into the club, and so how much extra we might be able to add to the wagebudget? I think I worked out before that in the second half of the season we saw our average attendance increase by around 100 per game. That's around £1000 extra a week. Seems pretty good to me - so if we are having a wage budget reduction that can only mean we were spending beyond our means last season.
But you don't have any proof of that do you?
People have mentioned how we have more office staff now than we have in the past 10 years. Well the fact is that over the past ten years our averages attendancs fell and fell and only increased in the last two seasons. The last two seasons when we have employed more office staff.
I'm sure one person could do 'two jobs' but they certainly wouldn't be able to do spend as much time on those jobs. Say one person is arranging 5 school visits a day, and another is arranging meetings with 5 companies a day. Now one person could be sacked and the other do both jobs - but the simple fact is they would only be able arrange half the visits or meetings that were done in the past.
I also find it interesting that you suggest a Business Consultant would suggest they need less staff, whilst two millionaire businessmen have suggested otherwise. Plus in my experience a Business Consultant always tells you that you can save money just so they can get their fee.
It certainly was. I haven't been to Nottingham for several seasons but the last time I did I can only remember some bloke in the crowd pretending to ride a horse when a certain piece of music went on.
Nottingham have a superb venue which on its own is probably good enough to keep fans happy. We play out of a tent with poor sightlines and we need something extra to keep fans coming back. I enjoy watching the pre-game videos, interviews and match replays. I'd like to see even more and hopefully we shall see some new things introduced this coming season.
Nottingham have a superb venue which on its own is probably good enough to keep fans happy. We play out of a tent with poor sightlines and we need something extra to keep fans coming back. I enjoy watching the pre-game videos, interviews and match replays. I'd like to see even more and hopefully we shall see some new things introduced this coming season.
Not counting the coach I see eight people listed on the Devils website, and I'm sure there are more than that as I know of at least one, maybe two others not noted on there, so I guess it's either nine or 10 office staff. Any clarification Finny, you were quick to check Nottingham's?
I'd love to hear Phil Thomas's take on the office situation, as I'm sure I'm right in saying there were considerably less on the payroll when Phil was manning the office when the Devils had crowds in excess of 2,000.
The club needs to allocate as much funds as possible to icing the best quality team they can, not creating office positions that are not needed.
You also keep quoting Finny 'millionaire buisnessman.' With respect to Matt Burge, who I think is a great guy, is he considered a succesful millionaire businessman at the moment? As from what I read, the media would beg to differ.
I'd love to hear Phil Thomas's take on the office situation, as I'm sure I'm right in saying there were considerably less on the payroll when Phil was manning the office when the Devils had crowds in excess of 2,000.
The club needs to allocate as much funds as possible to icing the best quality team they can, not creating office positions that are not needed.
You also keep quoting Finny 'millionaire buisnessman.' With respect to Matt Burge, who I think is a great guy, is he considered a succesful millionaire businessman at the moment? As from what I read, the media would beg to differ.
I don't know. Despite accusations on here that I have in depth knowledge of the club - I really don't. I too have looked on the website and as you say there are 7 people on there or 8 if Fleur Burge is still involved with the club (????)
There certainly were less office staff on the payroll when Phil Thomas was manning it. I should know as I was doing the website voluntary - hence why it was only ever updated on weekends and the occasional evening. And that was just basic stuff, nowhere near the amount of videos, photos or news updates we get now.
However, unless Phil was working at the club before we dropped from the ISL without me knowing, then we were never averaging over 2000 fans then. That is no slant on Phil, more a theory that if he had more staff working with him then we could have are attracted more fans into the WNIR.
But they are only not needed in your opinion. Can we really survive on crowds of 1500? In my opinion - definately not. We need to keep increasing our fanbase each season so that when we leave the Tent we are somewhere near 1800. Moving to a new arena should help give a massive attendance boost (just look at the Cardiff City Stadium effect) so that in a couple of years time we are matching Coventry with 2500 crowds, but that's not going to happen without staff actively seeking new fans and new sponsors.
Being declared bankrupt and actually being bankrupt are two different things. If Matt Burge wants to swap his house, cars and savings with me I'd be more than happy to.
There certainly were less office staff on the payroll when Phil Thomas was manning it. I should know as I was doing the website voluntary - hence why it was only ever updated on weekends and the occasional evening. And that was just basic stuff, nowhere near the amount of videos, photos or news updates we get now.
However, unless Phil was working at the club before we dropped from the ISL without me knowing, then we were never averaging over 2000 fans then. That is no slant on Phil, more a theory that if he had more staff working with him then we could have are attracted more fans into the WNIR.
But they are only not needed in your opinion. Can we really survive on crowds of 1500? In my opinion - definately not. We need to keep increasing our fanbase each season so that when we leave the Tent we are somewhere near 1800. Moving to a new arena should help give a massive attendance boost (just look at the Cardiff City Stadium effect) so that in a couple of years time we are matching Coventry with 2500 crowds, but that's not going to happen without staff actively seeking new fans and new sponsors.
Being declared bankrupt and actually being bankrupt are two different things. If Matt Burge wants to swap his house, cars and savings with me I'd be more than happy to.
This is a great read from two very nice, passionate intelligent Devils thru and thru fans, this is the sort of thing that keeps us different from any other hockey fans on the friggin planet. At the end of the day you just gotta love it, passion passion passion, keep it going lads its friggin awesome. Never a dull moment on the Inferno, and may that go on and on, dont you just love it, different people with different views from different places, but with a common love of the same thing, our beloved club.
HAPPY HAPPY HOCKEY DAYS.
HAPPY HAPPY HOCKEY DAYS.
Finny's arguement for correct staffing and the justification for investing in crucial areas of the business is spot on.
As he rightly says, in order for the Club to GROW, it has to constantly find sponsorship and greater means of revenue. To maximise those opportunities, any business would have to employ sufficient numbers of staff with the right skills to cope with the workload. Shannon and Brent cannot run the Club on their own! Some 'would-be Alan Sugars' think it's easy to run a business - just attend a few meetings, issue a few press statements and keep banging on about future success to keep the supporters happy :roll: I think not. Ever thought that one reason why some posters don't get immediate or any responses to E-mails they send to the Devils' office is simply because the office team is swamped with the workload? :?
If you want a 'one man and his dog only' operation, you may as well just dream about success in business because you are not ever going to see it. I'm firmly in the camp of leaving those individuals/professionals with the investment capacity, influence and responsibility to make those decisions.
As he rightly says, in order for the Club to GROW, it has to constantly find sponsorship and greater means of revenue. To maximise those opportunities, any business would have to employ sufficient numbers of staff with the right skills to cope with the workload. Shannon and Brent cannot run the Club on their own! Some 'would-be Alan Sugars' think it's easy to run a business - just attend a few meetings, issue a few press statements and keep banging on about future success to keep the supporters happy :roll: I think not. Ever thought that one reason why some posters don't get immediate or any responses to E-mails they send to the Devils' office is simply because the office team is swamped with the workload? :?
If you want a 'one man and his dog only' operation, you may as well just dream about success in business because you are not ever going to see it. I'm firmly in the camp of leaving those individuals/professionals with the investment capacity, influence and responsibility to make those decisions.