New Devils Jerseys

[moggy#9]

Sorry, I have to disagree. Cardiff has a unique culture, which is very different from the rest of Wales. As someone born in the city, as were my parents and grandparents, I am immensely proud of cardiff, but personally feel little identification with the rest of Wales. I understand however that some do.

Regarding the name 'Devils', true it might not have had much to do with Cardiff originally (something like 'mariners' doesn't really have the same ring), but after 35 years it's now an established tradition. In hockey terms. To me, a dragon just means Deeside (or maybe Rouen, or maybe some place in China), or even worse the Coventry logo, and their mascot.

If you're referring to what I think you are on Twitter, it's hardly representative, nor a massive sample. It seem odd to go from communicating in a way that everyone understands to one that immediately confuses, or even alienates, the large proportion of the population who, like myself, don't speak Welsh and have no interest in it. This is particularly odd as the job of a media person is to make information more accessible, not less.

With regards to the team colours, yes they were the same as the Welsh flag... Until they weren't. At the time of our club's formation new jersey was the new NHL team. Therefore the equipment colours were easy to come by. In the years since then things have varied quite a bit as it's been less necessary to stick to NHL patterns. We've had shirts that drop the green completely in favour of black, and it looks like we now have some grey.

No doubt I should now brace for some abuse and name calling.

 

[Kevlar68]

I also like the line "the fundamentals of the club was built on Welsh identity " when we first started there was just one welsh player.
Look at all that Welshness in the team

 

[Samael]

Couldn't have said it better myself Moggy.

I would much prefer to see imagery of the Devil or to a lesser extent the city of Cardiff on the Jersey. We are not a football club, we are not a rugby club. We are an ice hockey club with a unique fanbase, the fact we are based in Wales really is a non starter for me. Belfast don't bang on about being the only NI team in the league do they? Simply put because they are in the same position as us in that they have to play with the limited competition that is in Britain.

The thing l would say to all the 'Cymru am byth' lot, who l believe are in the vocal minority here, clamoring for dragons and to have leeks, lovespoons and daffodils festooned all over club merch is that we only have one actual Welsh born player on the ice so to be thumping the drum of patriotism seems, to me at least, farcical. Sing the anthem yes, but please don't try and ram your nationalism down the throats of people who are just here to enjoy a hockey match.

Let's just see what the Jersey looks like now eh? I just hope it looks cool and is striking. Not the boring red white and green stripes we usually get, which from the tease it doesn't look like it will be.

 

[Earnie]

I don’t see anyone banging the drum. The one who has covered the subject mostly so far is you. (Samael) Just leave things be.

 

[Samael]

Well coming from someone who finds the Welsh language to be 'poetic' l don't suppose you would see it that way.

This is a forum for debate, you might not agree with my opinion but don't try and tell me not to express said opinion. What is the point of a forum otherwise.

 

[Devil94]

I also like the line "the fundamentals of the club was built on Welsh identity " when we first started there was just one welsh player.
Look at all that Welshness in the team

The name and the colours of the club. They're pretty fundamental issues if you ask me when creating a team from scratch.
And it's quite tough to pick players from a country the game isn't even played in yet, don't you think?

 

[JC23]

The name and the colours of the club. They're pretty fundamental issues if you ask me when creating a team from scratch.
And it's quite tough to pick players from a country the game isn't even played in yet, don't you think?

What’s the excuse for only one Welsh born player on the team full time 36 years later then?

 

[Devil94]

What’s the excuse for only one Welsh born player on the team full time 36 years later then?

Well that's a completely different issue, but I would think the reason is obvious for most. The number of Brits required in the league now being very low is the main reason, and with the drastic increase in quality from 36 years ago, it's still a very small pool of players from Wales who are good enough to play at the level required.

 

[Samael]

It isn't a different issue at all, you said previously you are 'delighted with the increase in Welshness'. Things haven't changed since 86. Ice hockey was a minority sport in Wales and the UK then and it is now. We are called the Cardiff Devils, not Cythraul Caerdydd. In fact the present logo doesn't even carry the word Cardiff. I don't understand why it is so important to be recognised as a Welsh team in a league that is predominantly played by North Americans. Team branding should have nothing to do with nationality at club level.

 

[jenks33]

I'm a very proud Cardiffian (probably more proud to call myself a Cardiffian than a Welshman) but i'm slightly surprised at the anti Welsh Language/Anti Wales posts on here to be honest. Back in the mid 90s there couldn't have been more than 5 or 6 welsh medium primary schools in Cardiff and there was 1 welsh medium secondary school. Now there are 17 primary schools and 3 secondary schools, so it's very unfair to call it a dying language. There are also 26 new Welsh medium primary schools being built around Wales.

And by the way i certainly wouldn't call myself one of these 'Cymru am byth' types or whatever people want to call them. I have always been English first language and i'm not one to get particularly offended when people joke about the welsh language. I just don't agree that it's a dying language, i think it's an old fashioned opinion to call it a dying language.

As far as the Devils go i totally get why they play on the whole 'Only welsh club' thing. It's much, much easier to market the club as a Welsh team rather than just a Cardiff team. Let's not forget the Devils have done school visits all over South East Wales - from Porthcawl to Newport all the way up to Merthyr so why not use 'Welsh Club' more than 'Cardiff Club'. Ice Hockey is a niche sport so if TK and the team feel they can get more bums on seats by marketing us as a Welsh Team rather than a Cardiff team then it doesn't bother me. That doesn't mean that i want a big dragon on the shirt rather than a Devil, i agree with you Samael that the Thomson shirt back in the mid 00's wasn't a great shirt in my opinion.

And I think it's unfair to compare us to Belfast. National identity has clearly always been a sensitive subject in Northern Ireland so i'm sure that's why they steer away from it.

 

[Devil94]

It's a shame that a select few feel threatened by a few Welsh words and a dragon on a shirt. If seeing the Welsh dragon on shirt reminds you of an amateur hockey team, a team in France we have no connection to or a team in China then god help you. Does seeing the Devil on the jersey remind you of the Solent Devils too? No one is talking about changing it to being the Welsh national hockey side, it's just small subtle changes that makes a deeper connection with the community we represent, that's all it is. We are the capital city of Wales for goodness sake, with fans from all over Wales.
The idea that Cardiff has a unique culture to Wales is just laughable. I've never heard that one before. I haven't seen a tourist over from Newport looking around thinking 'wow this is such a different culture from home.' Cardiff culture is Welsh culture. I can't believe I have to actually type that.

There's a very real reason why Belfast don't recognise or promote their nationality. I'm going to pay you the compliment of assuming you actually knew that but chose to ignore to attempt to make your point.

The phrase ' Private Gentleman's club' was used by another poster on a different thread, I believe about Saturday night games. I'm afraid it's becoming fairly obvious that is the mindset of some. We need to snap out of that sharpish if we want to continue to grow within the community and be more recognised as a sports club and for our achievements, and the sport as a whole in Wales.

 

[Samael]

I'm not anti Welsh, l'm just not interested in shallow attempts, which let's be honest, is what it is, to fly the flag in a sport that has nothing to do with Welsh culture.

As for the Belfast argument, that's a fair point but aside from the ridiculous rebranding of the Glasgow clan with the braveheart rip off and perhaps Fife's occasional use of tartan, you don't see any other clubs putting forward their nationality for marketing purposes do you?


Edit for the benefit of devil94, l find your opinion 'laughable' that you consider people to be threatened by the use of Welsh imagery and that you dismiss the fact that Cardiff has a culture all of its own. I grew up in Cardiff in the 80s and 90s. Moved to the valleys in the early 00s and l can tell you Cardiff certainly has its very own unique atmosphere brought on by the fact it is very cosmopolitan. If you can't see that then perhaps it's because you haven't got the experience. Much like London feels like a country within a country.

 

[jenks33]

I'm not anti Welsh, lm just not interested in shallow attempts, which let's be honest, is what it is, to fly the flag in sport that has nothing to do with Welsh culture.

As for the Belfast argument, that's a fair point but aside from the ridiculous rebranding of the Glasgow clan with the braveheart rip off and perhaps Fife's occasional use of tartan, you don't see any other clubs putting forward their nationality for marketing purposes do you?

Clearly i don't disagree that the game of Ice Hockey isn't very 'Welsh' at all but the 20 odd players that play for the Devils next season will be representing the Capital City of Wales. I genuinely don't see the big issue if there's a Welsh Dragon on their shirt when they go out an play.

 

[pjj365]

There are frequent complaints about lack of media coverage which will continue if we go into ourselves and ignore our location in Cardiff AND Wales
There is no Welsh heritage - true. But if we can market ourselves as THE Welsh club by a tip,of the hat with the odd dragon or bit of language then, surely, it can only be to the good

 

[moggy#9]

Ah, but the growth was on the back of compulsion. When I was I secondary school in the early 80s most people dropped it like a hot potato as soon as they could. I'd never even actually met a native Welsh speaker until I went to university in treforest. Today my daughter's are compelled to study it up to 16. According to them very few children in their schools have any interest - even those who have been put though Welsh medium primary schools.

To me the imposition of Welsh has felt very much like a nationalist agenda being pushed upon the city. Others might disagree, but it's just the way I feel.

Anyway, the language issue is by the by. Cardiff culture should be respected. Don't even get met started about people calling Caroline Street "chippy lane".

 

[Devil94]

Ah, but the growth was on the back of compulsion. When I was I secondary school in the early 80s most people dropped it like a hot potato as soon as they could. I'd never even actually met a native Welsh speaker until I went to university in treforest. Today my daughter's are compelled to study it up to 16. According to them very few children in their schools have any interest - even those who have been put though Welsh medium primary schools.

To me the imposition of Welsh has felt very much like a nationalist agenda being pushed upon the city. Others might disagree, but it's just the way I feel.

Anyway, the language issue is by the by. Cardiff culture should be respected. Don't even get met started about people calling Caroline Street "chippy lane".

And what part of a dragon and Welsh is not respecting 'Cardiff Culture'?

 

[Earnie]

Now maybe some of you will understand why I said ‘leave it be’.
Pretty obvious really!

 

[moggy#9]

It's a shame that a select few feel threatened by a few Welsh words and a dragon on a shirt. If seeing the Welsh dragon on shirt reminds you of an amateur hockey team, a team in France we have no connection to or a team in China then god help you. Does seeing the Devil on the jersey remind you of the Solent Devils too? No one is talking about changing it to being the Welsh national hockey side, it's just small subtle changes that makes a deeper connection with the community we represent, that's all it is. We are the capital city of Wales for goodness sake, with fans from all over Wales.
The idea that Cardiff has a unique culture to Wales is just laughable. I've never heard that one before. I haven't seen a tourist over from Newport looking around thinking 'wow this is such a different culture from home.' Cardiff culture is Welsh culture. I can't believe I have to actually type that.

There's a very real reason why Belfast don't recognise or promote their nationality. I'm going to pay you the compliment of assuming you actually knew that but chose to ignore to attempt to make your point.

The phrase ' Private Gentleman's club' was used by another poster on a different thread, I believe about Saturday night games. I'm afraid it's becoming fairly obvious that is the mindset of some. We need to snap out of that sharpish if we want to continue to grow within the community and be more recognised as a sports club and for our achievements, and the sport as a whole in Wales.

No distinct Cardiff culture? That's pretty ignorant of the city's history. Perhaps this is the sort of awareness we lost when the industrial and Maritime museum was torn down to make way for mermaid quay and the assembly.

You might want to acquaint your self with the contributions of people from Ireland, the west indies, Asia and other places, who built the city and who's influence made the city the wonderful multicultural place that it is. If you're not convinced there several statues around the city commemorating the fact.

 

[moggy#9]

And what part of a dragon and Welsh is not respecting 'Cardiff Culture'?

It about subsuming Cardiff in all things Welsh.

 

[Samael]

There are frequent complaints about lack of media coverage which will continue if we go into ourselves and ignore our location in Cardiff AND Wales
There is no Welsh heritage - true. But if we can market ourselves as THE Welsh club by a tip,of the hat with the odd dragon or bit of language then, surely, it can only be to the good

I agree with this, anything that raises club and sport profile in Wales is a good thing. Personally though l think moving to a larger arena after several years of league dominance is the only way that will happen. Increasing the club's 'Welshness' with the odd dragon or Welsh verse on the inside of a jersey collar will not make a bit of difference to the clubs fortune's imo.