2011/12 Rumours Thread - Absolute nonsense spotted!
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
This is what I don't understand about Devil's fans, you (as a whole not Gazza272 individually) don't seem to be able to understand when someone is past it, I'll admit that 2/3 seasons ago when I started watching the EIHL Voth was a force to be reckoned with, as a player and an enforcer, however his decline has been rapid, most likely helped by a sudden jump in the quality of the league as a whole (ON ice, definitely not gonna be off it), and this last season he was slow on the play and about as much of an enforcer as my 6 year old niece could manage!
He is past it, and why you would rather keep him than take a younger grittier, faster, points scoring scrapper of a player I don't know!
I get there's all the history (apparently you all want him to be mayor of Cardiff), but the good teams don't get caught up in history, they create it as they march on forward, Voth is not a player that is a part of that in my opinion.
For those more familiar with the NHL, the Islander's, Oiler's and Senator's are perfect examples teams desperately trying to claw to their history and not strive to the future, how are they doing?
Should note that this isn't meant as an attack on Voth, as I feel more or less the same about Stevie! and a few other players from other teams!
He is past it, and why you would rather keep him than take a younger grittier, faster, points scoring scrapper of a player I don't know!
I get there's all the history (apparently you all want him to be mayor of Cardiff), but the good teams don't get caught up in history, they create it as they march on forward, Voth is not a player that is a part of that in my opinion.
For those more familiar with the NHL, the Islander's, Oiler's and Senator's are perfect examples teams desperately trying to claw to their history and not strive to the future, how are they doing?
Should note that this isn't meant as an attack on Voth, as I feel more or less the same about Stevie! and a few other players from other teams!
Because me Voth isnt past it.
You look at our run in when the first line went off the boil. Who stepped up? Finny will be able to help me out but Voth went on a massive points run toward the end of the season.
Also who did he have to enforce against last year? Brad Cruickshank? :lol: But he still was an enforcer the game we played Coventry live on sky summed Brad up perfectly and showed his worth within the first few minutes he got in Zanons face and we didnt see Zanon for the rest of the game and then Voth scored a peach of a goal and generally did what he wanted on the ice.
Much like yoru criticism of our fans opposition fans will never truly learn the frustration of how Voth has also had to adapt his game over the years with the ref bullseye on his back (although I admit that isnt totally undeserved) You only have to look at that phantom game penalty he received in the sky dome for a check near the boards to see the evidence of that. But you know what Voth DID change his game this past year which many players in his role wouldnt be good enough to do.
38 points from 50 games doesnt indicate past it to me.
You look at our run in when the first line went off the boil. Who stepped up? Finny will be able to help me out but Voth went on a massive points run toward the end of the season.
Also who did he have to enforce against last year? Brad Cruickshank? :lol: But he still was an enforcer the game we played Coventry live on sky summed Brad up perfectly and showed his worth within the first few minutes he got in Zanons face and we didnt see Zanon for the rest of the game and then Voth scored a peach of a goal and generally did what he wanted on the ice.
Much like yoru criticism of our fans opposition fans will never truly learn the frustration of how Voth has also had to adapt his game over the years with the ref bullseye on his back (although I admit that isnt totally undeserved) You only have to look at that phantom game penalty he received in the sky dome for a check near the boards to see the evidence of that. But you know what Voth DID change his game this past year which many players in his role wouldnt be good enough to do.
38 points from 50 games doesnt indicate past it to me.
I'll give Voth credit, based on that not being a bad point total, and that he did attempt to change his game (not in my opinion as successfully as in yours), Points are just one facet of the game which tell us almost nothing really, he is slow getting back into the defensive zone all the time, a critisicm I often give to Matzka aswell, In the Play-off final his lack of pace really showed when he consistently couldn't recieve the long pass given up many icing calls in the 2nd and 3rd periods (I use the playoffs only as a specific example because this is something he does on a full ice pad a lot from what I've been able to see of him), that is in no way an accusation that he is to blame for the final, because I blame the coaching for that one.
I refuse to talk about refereeing regarding a specific player as the referee's in this league are on a whole so poor that they can't even tell the difference between a trip and a hook (which shouldn't be hard based on name alone) Voth may get it off the ref's in this league but so do so many others, and ironically the one true "good ref" in our league gets abuse of the GB coach and I've barely heard of, nevermind seen him reffing since. So reffing is a moot point in reality.
With regards to Zanon, it doesn't take much for him to disappear for most of a game, usually all it takes is a good start.
And to me a good enforcer is the enforcer who doesn't need to fight (what Weller was), for me Voth has a habit of spending too much time looking for the fight with the wrong guys, I rarely see him step toe to toe with a guy who'd actually challenge him, even in past seasons I felt he left this to guys like Jarvis. And I am not talking about McMorrow here, he was a fighter not an enforcer, in real ice hockey they aren't the same thing
I refuse to talk about refereeing regarding a specific player as the referee's in this league are on a whole so poor that they can't even tell the difference between a trip and a hook (which shouldn't be hard based on name alone) Voth may get it off the ref's in this league but so do so many others, and ironically the one true "good ref" in our league gets abuse of the GB coach and I've barely heard of, nevermind seen him reffing since. So reffing is a moot point in reality.
With regards to Zanon, it doesn't take much for him to disappear for most of a game, usually all it takes is a good start.
And to me a good enforcer is the enforcer who doesn't need to fight (what Weller was), for me Voth has a habit of spending too much time looking for the fight with the wrong guys, I rarely see him step toe to toe with a guy who'd actually challenge him, even in past seasons I felt he left this to guys like Jarvis. And I am not talking about McMorrow here, he was a fighter not an enforcer, in real ice hockey they aren't the same thing
Jarvis never wanted to fight, he only fought Voth because Brad went for him over a cheapshot, Brad will fight anyone if the case needs it, he has turned the other cheek when it was the right thing to do for the team, the same as he has taken some dumb penalties. He never fought Sgroi as the time wasnt right, and he never fought Lepine for the same reasons, who else has he avoided. Anyway like most players some fans are behind them and some aint.
I vaguely recall seeing him fight someone in his second season with us - I can't remember who, I can vividly recall expressing my suprise at how much he had lost it, as he was hammering down blows - he seemed such a slow to anger, placid guy. I was suprised he didn't drop his gloves more, I know he wasn't by any means an enforcer but he certainly had size on his side.
If it comes to me who he fought I'll post it here...
If it comes to me who he fought I'll post it here...
Your post is littered with spurious points that arn't really backed up by reality, however these two I must take particular exception to.
(1) Matzka was excellent at working back to the defensive zone, with his back checking a particular strength and for me possibly one if not the best at doing this in the league.
(2) Last season Voth did exactly the right thing on the enforcing front - he hardly fought at all and only did so when absolutely necessary. This may or may not have been as a result of his hand injury but in the 2nd half of the season it meant we saw the benefit of a full import roster for most games. There was no one worth fighting with perhaps the exception of Hoffman who didn't really want to know or Lepine - anyone else willing to fight would have been a down trade and therefore, Voth rightly skated away from most potential fights.
(1) Matzka was excellent at working back to the defensive zone, with his back checking a particular strength and for me possibly one if not the best at doing this in the league.
(2) Last season Voth did exactly the right thing on the enforcing front - he hardly fought at all and only did so when absolutely necessary. This may or may not have been as a result of his hand injury but in the 2nd half of the season it meant we saw the benefit of a full import roster for most games. There was no one worth fighting with perhaps the exception of Hoffman who didn't really want to know or Lepine - anyone else willing to fight would have been a down trade and therefore, Voth rightly skated away from most potential fights.
In the sense of going toe to toe, I was referring specifically to just standing up for team mates, not necessarily dropping the gloves, it's rare for me to ever think it's time to drop the gloves.
Please highlight my spurious claims and I'll endeavour to defend them more to your liking, I thought I made it fairly clear that most of my statement was personal opinion, but i suppose i'm always up for a challenge
On (1), that your opinion and your welcome to it, all I can suggest is we agree to disagree. In my opinion he was soft on the puck in the defensive end, and that's when you managed to get him back there.
On (2), in re-reading my own post i notice i said "to me a good enforcer is the enforcer who doesn't need to fight (what Weller was)" so in that respect you may consider your arguement right, but I believe Weller's presence was all the enforcement needed for the most part and will continue to do so.
Much like I will continue to be confused by many hockey fans of this team who refuse to even allow a critiscm of Voth, i think i shall quote Winston Churchill as his words seem appropriate for my stance on Voth.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things"
Apologies for waffling a bit. And I want to emphasise that again my statement is personal opinion, I'm open to debate and discussion, but to call any individual's opinions spurious is about as arrogant a statement as I can imagine.
Please highlight my spurious claims and I'll endeavour to defend them more to your liking, I thought I made it fairly clear that most of my statement was personal opinion, but i suppose i'm always up for a challenge
On (1), that your opinion and your welcome to it, all I can suggest is we agree to disagree. In my opinion he was soft on the puck in the defensive end, and that's when you managed to get him back there.
On (2), in re-reading my own post i notice i said "to me a good enforcer is the enforcer who doesn't need to fight (what Weller was)" so in that respect you may consider your arguement right, but I believe Weller's presence was all the enforcement needed for the most part and will continue to do so.
Much like I will continue to be confused by many hockey fans of this team who refuse to even allow a critiscm of Voth, i think i shall quote Winston Churchill as his words seem appropriate for my stance on Voth.
"Criticism may not be agreeable, but it is necessary. It fulfills the same function as pain in the human body. It calls attention to an unhealthy state of things"
Apologies for waffling a bit. And I want to emphasise that again my statement is personal opinion, I'm open to debate and discussion, but to call any individual's opinions spurious is about as arrogant a statement as I can imagine.