There are too many other alteranatives on a Sat, yes the regular die hards will go, but there are so many young people at the games and they have lots of things to do on a Sat, plus competing with the football etc etc. Later face offs , Xmas parties coming up the list just goes on, to me its financial suicide to play so many Sat games, just hope the lesson has been learnt.
Where have our fans gone?
- Thread starter DevilDom
- Start date
Excellent points, Wildthing.
Don't know whether it was just co-incidence in previous years, but Sunday night became 'Hockey Night' in Cardiff. Rather than clashing with other sporting events in the city, a Sunday evening game would be the perfect way round off the weekend.
Happened a lot in the Matt Burge era and early 2000's.
This year's scheduling is particularly weighted towards Saturday evenings - more people than not have other commitments. I know nothing about the influence/input that clubs can have in the game schedule meeting before the start of the season - and perhaps the thinking was that home games Saturday avoided the team travelling to an away game beforehand?
What I do know is that a family of 3 (and sometimes 4) who sit next to me cannot make any Saturday games this season (although they attend all the others) because of commitments. Whilst you can't please all the people all of the time with scheduling, it's not rocketscience to calculate the loss of regular revenue from just the one example I've given.
Don't know whether it was just co-incidence in previous years, but Sunday night became 'Hockey Night' in Cardiff. Rather than clashing with other sporting events in the city, a Sunday evening game would be the perfect way round off the weekend.
Happened a lot in the Matt Burge era and early 2000's. This year's scheduling is particularly weighted towards Saturday evenings - more people than not have other commitments. I know nothing about the influence/input that clubs can have in the game schedule meeting before the start of the season - and perhaps the thinking was that home games Saturday avoided the team travelling to an away game beforehand?
What I do know is that a family of 3 (and sometimes 4) who sit next to me cannot make any Saturday games this season (although they attend all the others) because of commitments. Whilst you can't please all the people all of the time with scheduling, it's not rocketscience to calculate the loss of regular revenue from just the one example I've given.
To take the Saturday v Sunday point though, how many families don't attend because of the late evening on the Sunday?
Personally, I think there should be a balance between the two. There should also be consideration given to the City games, and try to avoid clashes. Where the games fall on the same day, there should be a deal to give a discount to City fans - tempt them to make the short hop to the tent.
I also think matinee games. Not every week, but some of the Sunday (and maybe even non-City clashing Saturday) games should be an early afternoon face-off. This makes them more family friendly, and also leaves the evening free for the fans after.
No schedule will favour everyone perfectly, so the whole thing needs balance.
I've got a colleague taking up the ticket offer this Sunday, but he has worries about the finish time. The kids are quite young, and he has over an hour after the game finishes to get back to Ammanford. They are likely to come again (the kids are already hooked on the idea of hockey, never mind seeing the game), but I doubt they would go to many Sunday games. School night etc etc.
Personally, I think there should be a balance between the two. There should also be consideration given to the City games, and try to avoid clashes. Where the games fall on the same day, there should be a deal to give a discount to City fans - tempt them to make the short hop to the tent.
I also think matinee games. Not every week, but some of the Sunday (and maybe even non-City clashing Saturday) games should be an early afternoon face-off. This makes them more family friendly, and also leaves the evening free for the fans after.
No schedule will favour everyone perfectly, so the whole thing needs balance.
I've got a colleague taking up the ticket offer this Sunday, but he has worries about the finish time. The kids are quite young, and he has over an hour after the game finishes to get back to Ammanford. They are likely to come again (the kids are already hooked on the idea of hockey, never mind seeing the game), but I doubt they would go to many Sunday games. School night etc etc.
Given our business, Pub owners, Saturday nights are a virtual impossibility for us. If the home games had been predominently Sundays we would have bought Season tickets.
I dont think given the facility we play from the ticket price is justified and particularly if you have a family cost will in today's climate play a part!
I dont think given the facility we play from the ticket price is justified and particularly if you have a family cost will in today's climate play a part!
Was wondering if anyone would make the point Stub did about Sunday being a school night for families.
I have seen positive and negative feedback for Sat or Sun games in my time, with no conclusive majority either way. My perception - and that's all it is - from that feedback is that long-term fans think we are a Sunday club and newer fans seem as / more likely to go out / bring their family out / on a Saturday. I don;t think there's a real single answer, but I would like to see us control our fixtures better anyway from a travel / opposition / give the team an advantage if possible perspective.
As for the point made about Belfast charging less than us for an arena ticket - frankly that's a stupid argument.
Arenas can, and I believe should always be cheaper than rinks if they are competing against one another. Let's say we sold out at £17.50. That's £17.50 x 2313 = £40,477.50.
That's never happened and never will, but it's easier maths....
Belfast at £15.50? £15.50 x (let's be conservative) 5,000 = £77,500
It's a no brainer that whilst some think you can charge more for a better facility, if a rink is trying to compete on the ice with the commercial capabilities of an arena it MUST charge more. There is a reason Tony Smith knows he can charge naff all for tickets if he wanted to in Shuff - they have up to 10,500 seats to fill if necessary.
And as is often said by some fans here and on THF - cheaper tickets guarantees higher attendance. Doesn't it?
Wasn't our pre-book price the same last year to watch the record breaking Devils? Not once did I EVER see somebody say "It's way too expensive to watch our boys steamroller the entire Elite League every week. I'm not coming any more."
Fact is we just recently exceeded the average attendance of the last WNIR season in the BBT. That frankly is a big deal for our modest sized club.
Welsh Rugby did well at the RWC. The City aren;t doing too badly. The Blues are just starting the HC and Welsh football is having a renaissance under Speed. when you add in the bonkers scheduling, a team not playing as well as it could and Bonfire night / bad press / a n other factors it's amazing we've had the crowds we have had, despite the best efforts of the management.
I still believe our best bet is ticket offers by the club, to the fans, to bring more newbies in. I would rather see a £5 a ticket deal for STH's to bring a noob than a Groupon deal. The supporters are the best and most direct chance the club has to grow the attendances. I am very interested in tomorrow's crowd.
I have seen positive and negative feedback for Sat or Sun games in my time, with no conclusive majority either way. My perception - and that's all it is - from that feedback is that long-term fans think we are a Sunday club and newer fans seem as / more likely to go out / bring their family out / on a Saturday. I don;t think there's a real single answer, but I would like to see us control our fixtures better anyway from a travel / opposition / give the team an advantage if possible perspective.
As for the point made about Belfast charging less than us for an arena ticket - frankly that's a stupid argument.
Arenas can, and I believe should always be cheaper than rinks if they are competing against one another. Let's say we sold out at £17.50. That's £17.50 x 2313 = £40,477.50.
That's never happened and never will, but it's easier maths....
Belfast at £15.50? £15.50 x (let's be conservative) 5,000 = £77,500
It's a no brainer that whilst some think you can charge more for a better facility, if a rink is trying to compete on the ice with the commercial capabilities of an arena it MUST charge more. There is a reason Tony Smith knows he can charge naff all for tickets if he wanted to in Shuff - they have up to 10,500 seats to fill if necessary.
And as is often said by some fans here and on THF - cheaper tickets guarantees higher attendance. Doesn't it?
Wasn't our pre-book price the same last year to watch the record breaking Devils? Not once did I EVER see somebody say "It's way too expensive to watch our boys steamroller the entire Elite League every week. I'm not coming any more."
Fact is we just recently exceeded the average attendance of the last WNIR season in the BBT. That frankly is a big deal for our modest sized club.
Welsh Rugby did well at the RWC. The City aren;t doing too badly. The Blues are just starting the HC and Welsh football is having a renaissance under Speed. when you add in the bonkers scheduling, a team not playing as well as it could and Bonfire night / bad press / a n other factors it's amazing we've had the crowds we have had, despite the best efforts of the management.
I still believe our best bet is ticket offers by the club, to the fans, to bring more newbies in. I would rather see a £5 a ticket deal for STH's to bring a noob than a Groupon deal. The supporters are the best and most direct chance the club has to grow the attendances. I am very interested in tomorrow's crowd.
To me, the big problem with the walk-up price is the fact it is used as the headline price - and that then puts people off.
Really, how many people pay £17.50 a ticket? You have up to 2 hours before faceoff to buy your ticket before it goes up to £17.50.
We need to ensure that fans know about the other pricing. We need Groupon style deals, ideally without using Groupon (as Groupon take such a huge cut).
We also need "mini-season tickets". Flex tickets used to be a great deal, but now there is no financial incentive to buy them. Yes, they are cheaper that the walk-up price, but there is no great saving over buying on the day. Make it worth my while to get a 10 flex pack for Clare - I'll use them.
If people are picking and choosing their games, let them. Build deals for them - but get the cash up front to make them feel that they have to attend.
The problem with the deal for Sunday is the need to present a voucher to buy the ticket. That is a big barrier. Especially as there seems to be a 2 hour limit (I may be wrong, I have given my voucher away). If there are limits to the online and phone booking systems, we need to find a way around them. I could imagine a system to buy the tickets through the website, with a season ticket number - limiting the number of cheap tickets bought against the ST number.
Really, how many people pay £17.50 a ticket? You have up to 2 hours before faceoff to buy your ticket before it goes up to £17.50.
We need to ensure that fans know about the other pricing. We need Groupon style deals, ideally without using Groupon (as Groupon take such a huge cut).
We also need "mini-season tickets". Flex tickets used to be a great deal, but now there is no financial incentive to buy them. Yes, they are cheaper that the walk-up price, but there is no great saving over buying on the day. Make it worth my while to get a 10 flex pack for Clare - I'll use them.
If people are picking and choosing their games, let them. Build deals for them - but get the cash up front to make them feel that they have to attend.
The problem with the deal for Sunday is the need to present a voucher to buy the ticket. That is a big barrier. Especially as there seems to be a 2 hour limit (I may be wrong, I have given my voucher away). If there are limits to the online and phone booking systems, we need to find a way around them. I could imagine a system to buy the tickets through the website, with a season ticket number - limiting the number of cheap tickets bought against the ST number.
Double post
I think this stands up IF we are selling out the BBT. We aren't - and therefore the best way to increase our takings is to get people through the door (but not at any price).
Let's say that our recent attendances were at £17.50 for every ticket, we'd have taken £21,000 on 1200. If we sold out at £10 a ticket that would be £23,130. So we'd be better filling the place at a £10 - and we get nowhere near £17.50.
Once we are selling out the barn every game, then start making the competitive budget argument.
I think this stands up IF we are selling out the BBT. We aren't - and therefore the best way to increase our takings is to get people through the door (but not at any price).
Let's say that our recent attendances were at £17.50 for every ticket, we'd have taken £21,000 on 1200. If we sold out at £10 a ticket that would be £23,130. So we'd be better filling the place at a £10 - and we get nowhere near £17.50.
Once we are selling out the barn every game, then start making the competitive budget argument.
You have to factor in that the arena's cost far more to rent out over the course of a season.. Giants are around 15,000 grand down each home game before tickets are sold.. I doubt the Devils have that same problem. I think it was Simm's that said both Belfast and Nottingham start around £300,000 grand behind all the rink teams at the start of a season due to arena rent..
I agree with Stub that if you drop prices to around £14/15 and get more people in the door your onto a winner. More fans better atmosphere
I agree with Stub that if you drop prices to around £14/15 and get more people in the door your onto a winner. More fans better atmosphere
Last season we had the best team playing in Cardiff for a number of years, went on a world record winning run that included us being in the title hunt right until the end, and won virtually every home game. The team included an ex-NHLer, the leagues' top scorer, and one of the most compelling players you'll ever see (Michel).
Despite all of this we still didn't come close to selling out most weeks (was it 1 or 2 official sell outs?)
For that reason, I believe ticket prices must have been a factor.
Our rink is garbage (not the Devils fault) and asking people to pay the same prices as places like Nottingham and Belfast is ludicrous. In most seats you can only see 2/3rds of the ice and for £16 or £17.50 that is a total rip off.
Without a salary cap, I don't believe we can compete for a title with these teams while encouraging a growing fan base (instead of relying on the same faces too turn up whatever the price), but I don't think we should be trying to.
Buy a team with a few skill guys and a bunch of others who'll work their socks off and keep the crowd entertained and I'm sure we'd still win most of our home games (there's plenty of games against non-arena teams we can match on budget. Winning entertainingly at home is the key IMO. Most new fans don't care how the team got on the night before in Fife.
The value for money issue has been compounded by the fact that this year the team is playing horrible hockey and there's a bunch of guys who don't seem to be giving it 100%. I'm sure we could have at least afforded a more hard-working team (and probably a better team) on the same budget.
I certainly don't feel comfortable asking my friends to come to a game having to tell them it's £16/£17.50 a ticket.
Finally, I don't think comparing it with the pricing of other sports locally is ideal. Going to watch the Blues is going to watch top level club rugby (crackin' win yesterday by the way). Despite being in the championship, Cardiff City is still playing in one of the better league's in the world. Elite league hockey's around league 2 football level It's also an unknown for most people and forking out big dosh for something you don't know much about is always going to be a tough call.
Despite all of this we still didn't come close to selling out most weeks (was it 1 or 2 official sell outs?)
For that reason, I believe ticket prices must have been a factor.
Our rink is garbage (not the Devils fault) and asking people to pay the same prices as places like Nottingham and Belfast is ludicrous. In most seats you can only see 2/3rds of the ice and for £16 or £17.50 that is a total rip off.
Without a salary cap, I don't believe we can compete for a title with these teams while encouraging a growing fan base (instead of relying on the same faces too turn up whatever the price), but I don't think we should be trying to.
Buy a team with a few skill guys and a bunch of others who'll work their socks off and keep the crowd entertained and I'm sure we'd still win most of our home games (there's plenty of games against non-arena teams we can match on budget. Winning entertainingly at home is the key IMO. Most new fans don't care how the team got on the night before in Fife.
The value for money issue has been compounded by the fact that this year the team is playing horrible hockey and there's a bunch of guys who don't seem to be giving it 100%. I'm sure we could have at least afforded a more hard-working team (and probably a better team) on the same budget.
I certainly don't feel comfortable asking my friends to come to a game having to tell them it's £16/£17.50 a ticket.
Finally, I don't think comparing it with the pricing of other sports locally is ideal. Going to watch the Blues is going to watch top level club rugby (crackin' win yesterday by the way). Despite being in the championship, Cardiff City is still playing in one of the better league's in the world. Elite league hockey's around league 2 football level
It's also an unknown for most people and forking out big dosh for something you don't know much about is always going to be a tough call.If you crunch the numbers, the potential earnings are still far beyond what a rink team could hope for.
But Belfast, Sheffield and Nottingham should be really interested in what the "rink" teams are doing, and how many they are getting through the doors. No-one will pay to see the Giants beat up every other team week in, week out.
A hell of a lot of sense here. Personally (and I know I've said this a lot of times) I'd rather see the Devils loose everyweek in close fought, exciting games than roll over all the other teams every week. What made the streak compelling was the competitive nature of the games. They weren't easy wins, and you wanted to see if you could keep it going.
Close games, even with a "lower level of hockey" would probably get more bums on seats than the current "technical" games. Trap hockey is effective (ask the Philly Flyers) but not exactly exciting to watch.
True, very true - but it is our interest to do something about the Tent. Yes, we can't alter the layout, but we can do a lot to improve the match night experience (and I'm not talking the music and lights). You would hope that the club and planet ice could sit down and make stuff happen. Yes it is a tent, but it should be a fortress with an amazing atmosphere - where I can also get something decent to eat and drink and want to pass my time.
But Belfast, Sheffield and Nottingham should be really interested in what the "rink" teams are doing, and how many they are getting through the doors. No-one will pay to see the Giants beat up every other team week in, week out.
A hell of a lot of sense here. Personally (and I know I've said this a lot of times) I'd rather see the Devils loose everyweek in close fought, exciting games than roll over all the other teams every week. What made the streak compelling was the competitive nature of the games. They weren't easy wins, and you wanted to see if you could keep it going.
Close games, even with a "lower level of hockey" would probably get more bums on seats than the current "technical" games. Trap hockey is effective (ask the Philly Flyers) but not exactly exciting to watch.
True, very true - but it is our interest to do something about the Tent. Yes, we can't alter the layout, but we can do a lot to improve the match night experience (and I'm not talking the music and lights). You would hope that the club and planet ice could sit down and make stuff happen. Yes it is a tent, but it should be a fortress with an amazing atmosphere - where I can also get something decent to eat and drink and want to pass my time.
Keep playing your games on a Saturday to your peril Devils, we are a Sunday hockey team, believe me we are a sunday team always have been but maybe not much longer.I only buy 3 season tickets a drop in the ocean but wont buy them next season for sure, 3 of us have missed 5 games already thats £180 down the swanee so far.
It is dangerous to label a team a "Saturday team" or a "Sunday team". I'm sure there are plenty of fans who wont turn up if the matches were purely Saturday, and likewise purely Sunday.
Just because we traditionally played on a Sunday doesn't mean we always should - there probably should be a spread.
Which is also why I think we should be doing a great flex package for 10 flex tickets, and pushing a "build your own season ticket" idea. Especially now, and after the summer - it would allow fans to commit to what they can commit to.
If we were purely Sunday, I would guess that the group of 4 I'm in would probably not renew.
Just because we traditionally played on a Sunday doesn't mean we always should - there probably should be a spread.
Which is also why I think we should be doing a great flex package for 10 flex tickets, and pushing a "build your own season ticket" idea. Especially now, and after the summer - it would allow fans to commit to what they can commit to.
If we were purely Sunday, I would guess that the group of 4 I'm in would probably not renew.
who said they are the best, not me. lack of fans ,down to price ,rink in middle of nothing, poor and long bus service, poor food and drink in rink , poor parking puddles of mud and water every few yards. when rink has a sell out you cannot walk around,juniors changing by toilets and pen box .have a fire drill at that time,and find out your dead ,just think about it centre doors penarth side ,supporters club ,gents toilets , steve lyles desk, stairs to upper level ,vidio crew,benches by fire doors,die hard fans put up with this but new blood may want better,sorry folks after 25 years getting to old to moan about it any more, ps when can i buy next years season tickets,thank u devils for years of fun and fails ,
I've not managed a game since pre season, partially due to a new baby, but speaking as a relatively new fan (last 2 seasons) I'd like to see some kind of multi game package of tickets, as I live too far away to be a season ticket holder and attend every game week in week out
Also Sunday only games would be very restrictive for me as they finish so late with the drive home would make it past midnight when I get back, I usually stay in a hotel nearby on Saturday nights,, make a weekend of it
I think all in tho fans would like to see the back of the BBT and into a new arena, the experience of a proper arena , such as Nottinghams arena is second to none and I think would help no end with the whole match night experience
Also Sunday only games would be very restrictive for me as they finish so late with the drive home would make it past midnight when I get back, I usually stay in a hotel nearby on Saturday nights,, make a weekend of it
I think all in tho fans would like to see the back of the BBT and into a new arena, the experience of a proper arena , such as Nottinghams arena is second to none and I think would help no end with the whole match night experience
Wannabe2 said:
El baby what you think about our average/ boring team now we just beat the best team in the league at there gaff, not bad for a so so team.