Surely Enough Is Enough

[Ocko]

Why shouldn't they be allowed to 'paper over the cracks' though? This is a business that needs media about good things like signings or a good result. Do you expect them to dwell on decisions continually admitting they got it wrong? Of course not, they make their decision and move on.

Seeing as there are clearly two sides to this whole shambles. But to the militia, mafia* or whatever else you call yourselves what do you hope to achieve? This is a serious question because PR for all his faults is trying to move the club forward, albeit in a strange way sometimes but that is clearly his intention; he has a financial stake in it after all so he isn't deliberately destroying the club. So what is the agenda of Jody etc? It seems to me that it is to bad mouth the club at every opportunity, what is the aim of it all? You may say that it's PR not the Cardiff Devils itself but PR is the owner of the devils and it does reflect on the club.

*That was a joke, I know how easily offended people are on here!

 

[Paul Sullivan]

A fair question but I can only speak for myself.

I think that everyone has their tipping point of when 'enough is enough' for them. We clearly reached mine in the way Gerad was mistreated. However to distill down all of the issues to just that one, like in the posts I see where people say ' I disagree with the way G was treated but....' and then move on as if it were the only issue, is inaccurate.

Whilst some will happily name-call those fans who speak out, I don't do the reverse.

There is no 'we that we call ourselves', there just happens to be a decent number of supporters speaking against PR and BP. Neither can I speak for Jody or anyone else. What I do know however, from calls, emails, twitter feeds and online forums, is that far more people than just Jody and I feel similarly.

Actually this thread has so far provided some of the best debate about this of any. Irony at work.

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

You may say that it's PR not the Cardiff Devils itself but PR is the owner of the devils and it does reflect on the club.

And equally what Paul and Brent do reflects on the club's name and reputation. The club being (as I see ) the great fans and the playing staff that represent it. The management play their part in backing that team and should act in a way that makes the playing staff proud to represent the name and the fans proud to cheer for the name and hopefully for them make a profit in doing so

 

[Ocko]

Jody, I agree and they are ultimately the ones who publicly (at least in media sense) represent the club the most and whilst their actions many of us don't agree with, myself included, I do think the name of the club is being dragged further through the mud by its own fans. It's like we're airing our dirty laundry all the time ; there's even Devils fans supporting and encouraging opposition fans slagging us off, it's just a bit crass and doesn't sit well with me. I just don't see what end result will be achieved with all this bad mouthing, its only the club and Cardiff Devils name that will suffer, which I'm sure none of us want. People should be encouraged to attend not put off with the whole media circus and bandwagon of cancelling direct debits and not going to games, the players don't deserve an empty rink and neither do the players who built the legacy of the club over the past 27 years.

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

Jody, I agree and they are ultimately the ones who publicly (at least in media sense) represent the club the most and whilst their actions many of us don't agree with, myself included, I do think the name of the club is being dragged further through the mud by its own fans. It's like we're airing our dirty laundry all the time ; there's even Devils fans supporting and encouraging opposition fans slagging us off, it's just a bit crass and doesn't sit well with me. I just don't see what end result will be achieved with all this bad mouthing, its only the club and Cardiff Devils name that will suffer, which I'm sure none of us want. People should be encouraged to attend not put off with the whole media circus and bandwagon of cancelling direct debits and not going to games, the players don't deserve an empty rink and neither do the players who built the legacy of the club over the past 27 years.

OCKO I agree to some extent, it is difficult to seperate the two, every time strange and understandable decisions are made there doesn't seem to be any lessons learned and it reverts to same old. I don't know what it will take to break the cycle but GOING FORWARD just doesn't cut it any more and it is extremely frustrating. It is why History is taught in schools, to hopefully eradicate the mistakes of the past and providing a better future.
Good to be involved in real debate on this forum.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Jody, I agree and they are ultimately the ones who publicly (at least in media sense) represent the club the most and whilst their actions many of us don't agree with, myself included, I do think the name of the club is being dragged further through the mud by its own fans. It's like we're airing our dirty laundry all the time ; there's even Devils fans supporting and encouraging opposition fans slagging us off, it's just a bit crass and doesn't sit well with me. I just don't see what end result will be achieved with all this bad mouthing, its only the club and Cardiff Devils name that will suffer, which I'm sure none of us want. People should be encouraged to attend not put off with the whole media circus and bandwagon of cancelling direct debits and not going to games, the players don't deserve an empty rink and neither do the players who built the legacy of the club over the past 27 years.

I believe that highlighting the opinions of fans from other teams is important, as frankly the arguably delusional state of our management about how their decisions are viewed by (in their minds) a tiny amount of Devils fans proves they are not correct in this.

Likewise, the cancellation of Direct Debits has been as a result of the Management's own actions, not because I retweeted someone or Jody disagreed with Paul Ragan on the Inferno. also, I keep mentioning us two - there are a lot more than that.

People 100% should be encouraged to attend. Have you seen ANYTHING from the Club in the last month on web, social media or in print that has been doing that?

That's not down to the critical fans, that's down to them. They should be grateful that Terry Phillips isn't Bob Westerdale. He would be drooling from both sides of the mouth if he was handed this many under-arm dolly droppers from the Steelers.

 

[jimmy snels]

Now that you are not directly invoved do you attend games?

Quite frankly im not sure exactly what you hope to achieve other than pulling more people away from ice hockey in cardiff? Both jody and yourself have more than had your say. Now give it a rest for gods sake and let fans who enjoy talking about hockey talk it.

 

[rolf]

Yeah he does. I have seen him there, why do you ask?

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Now that you are not directly invoved do you attend games?

Quite frankly im not sure exactly what you hope to achieve other than pulling more people away from ice hockey in cardiff? Both jody and yourself have more than had your say. Now give it a rest for gods sake and let fans who enjoy talking about hockey talk it.

I have been to most games so far this season, buying my ticket each time. Other games I have viewed the webcast and paid. Do I get a 'real fan' badge? I think next year is my silver anniversary as a Devil so perhaps I should wait

And just a small point of order - EVERY Devils fan is directly involved in our current situation.

 

[jimmy snels]

Because alot of the other posters who are slating all things devils haven't been and was intrested. I figure if you dont vote you cant talk politics. If you dont go to games u cant talk hockey!

 

[jimmy snels]

Now that you are not directly invoved do you attend games?

Quite frankly im not sure exactly what you hope to achieve other than pulling more people away from ice hockey in cardiff? Both jody and yourself have more than had your say. Now give it a rest for gods sake and let fans who enjoy talking about hockey talk it.

I have been to most games so far this season, buying my ticket each time. Other games I have viewed the webcast and paid. Do I get a 'real fan' badge? I think next year is my silver anniversary as a Devil so perhaps I should wait

And just a small point of order - EVERY Devils fan is directly involved in our current situation.

Well done on still attending. And congratulations on silver star status. But I reiterate continuing on and on from here will not help anyone

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Because alot of the other posters who are slating all things devils haven't been and was intrested. I figure if you dont vote you cant talk politics. If you dont go to games u cant talk hockey!

Understandable but, forgive me, naive. You are in that comment fairly glibly writing off decades and decades as Devils fans for some of the opinions that have been aired.

I believe they have voted in more than enough elections to have their opinions heard. Let's not get into a discussion about attending games, or how many. They are always ugly and often one-sided.

We have this last week seen two individuals who have fought tirelessly for our new home labelled 'cretins' for caring about the Devils.

 

[Sheincar]

Because alot of the other posters who are slating all things devils haven't been and was intrested. I figure if you dont vote you cant talk politics. If you dont go to games u cant talk hockey!

Not sure exactly who this is aimed at but, as one of those frequently accused of being negative towards the club ( not the team), I've been to every game this season using my paid for ST.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Now that you are not directly invoved do you attend games?

Quite frankly im not sure exactly what you hope to achieve other than pulling more people away from ice hockey in cardiff? Both jody and yourself have more than had your say. Now give it a rest for gods sake and let fans who enjoy talking about hockey talk it.

I have been to most games so far this season, buying my ticket each time. Other games I have viewed the webcast and paid. Do I get a 'real fan' badge? I think next year is my silver anniversary as a Devil so perhaps I should wait

And just a small point of order - EVERY Devils fan is directly involved in our current situation.

Well done on still attending. And congratulations on silver star status. But I reiterate continuing on and on from here will not help anyone

Err, thanks, I think?

'Continuing on'. Hmmmm. What I have been doing is challenging the hyperbole, mismanagement, insults, spin and downright lies that the Club have been producing. I'll make a covenant with you now: If they stop doing that, I'll stop pointing it out.

 

[jimmy snels]

Nope im saying I dont see why if your so uninterested in hockey to not even attend since the start of the season hardly then just give it up and let people go watch a game, meet up with friends and frankly just have a laugh. I dont care who's in charge I really dont want to be close to a mercenary player from north America and know his favourite sandwich. I appreciate the good others HAVE done. I appreciate others opinions. But frankly they have been aired and its an endless moaning circle.

 

[Paul Sullivan]

Nope im saying I dont see why if your so uninterested in hockey to not even attend since the start of the season hardly then just give it up and let people go watch a game, meet up with friends and frankly just have a laugh. I dont care who's in charge I really dont want to be close to a mercenary player from north America and know his favourite sandwich. I appreciate the good others HAVE done. I appreciate others opinions. But frankly they have been aired and its an endless moaning circle.

If you are implying I want to be close to the players, you have the wrong man. I know some of them sure, but there are plenty of others (most of them not the 'militia') who would be at the front of the carrot-carrying queue instead of me.

And I would suggest a very simple and well-known online forum rule to you then:
If you don't like it, don't read it. Either avoid the posters, or the threads, or the fora completely. The mere fact you are posting on the subject subject you do care about certain things.

 

[Sheincar]

No sure where Paul has said he's uninterested in hockey. In fact I would suggest that the reason some of us bang on so much about the misdemeanours of the club because we care so much about hockey in general and our team in particular. I also object to the notion that if we're against what the club is doing it's because we regard ourselves as bestest friends with the players. That is simply untrue. Yes some fans are close to players, but that's simply because they've been around the club for so long, either by helping out or as former sponsors.

 

[jimmy snels]

I agree I do care. I care about the team surviving and this destruction from BOTH sides is disgusting.

Im fully aware you wouldn't be first paul but what im pointing out my enjoyment is winnibg a game, hopefully quite physically, talk crap with cookiesnaughtyboy, noodles and the temmes and generally have a good night out.. Its just time to move on and get back to enjoying the game. As I have said before I prefered your involvement in MNE which I thought was a positive of a Saturday/sunday. But after an initial WTF and comment on here I left it lie and moved on.
G is gone, we've moaned.... u know whats next! ;-)

Sheincar: I didn't say paul wasnt I said I was happy he still attended?? I know he has done tons for the club and miss his MNE. But I think its time to move on

Im leaving this now, we've both had our say. Or people will start accusing me of being negative about people being negative :lol: r

 

[Paul Sullivan]

I agree I do care. I care about the team surviving and this destruction from BOTH sides is disgusting.

Im fully aware you wouldn't be first paul but what im pointing out my enjoyment is winnibg a game, hopefully quite physically, talk crap with cookiesnaughtyboy, noodles and the temmes and generally have a good night out.. Its just time to move on and get back to enjoying the game. As I have said before I prefered your involvement in MNE which I thought was a positive of a Saturday/sunday. But after an initial WTF and comment on here I left it lie and moved on.
G is gone, we've moaned.... u know whats next! ;-)

Sheincar: I didn't say paul wasnt I said I was happy he still attended?? I know he has done tons for the club and miss his MNE. But I think its time to move on

Im leaving this now, we've both had our say. Or people will start accusing me of being negative about people being negative :lol: r

ALl fair enough points and a good debate, however I would disagree on one.

To just 'move on' is a tacit acceptance of this mismanagement and derogatory behaviour.

Just because it's ugly, difficult and none of us like it, doesn't mean they should get a free pass to keep on doing it.

Thanks for your comments on the MNE side of things. I really do appreciate them.

 

[DevilDom]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread in an attempt to move on, I'm also not sure if I count as "militia" or not as I tend to just judge each situation as I see it. However, I feel I need to add some support to Paul, Jody, & Sheincar. I'm a season ticket holder who is extremely unhappy about many of the things mentioned already in this thread. One high profile signing won't paper over the cracks for me either.