Signing an NHLer a no brainer???

O

osh

Well-Known Member
#62
#62
Paul Sullivan said:
You seem to mistake my faith in G and Franny for believing they would not make a change if they (and they are in charge) felt it necessary. Not so. Please feel free to show me where they have had the Devils doing anything other than punching above their weight in the last few years and I will happily accept another correction of opinion. No doubt in bold typeface to give it that little extra gravitas ;)
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Paul, trying to belittle my response just because it is in boldface doesn't wash with me. My answers to your post were in bold typeface not to 'give it that extra gravitas' as you suggest, but simply to make it clear to readers where I am addressing your post, nothing sinister in that and quite sensible I would have thought! Now, to address your response to my post I will do the same by typing my aswers in bold lettering for exactly the same reasons below.
 
O

osh

Well-Known Member
#63
#63
Paul Sullivan said:
Osh, you could have saved yourself so much time of you just posted 'Sack the Coaches and some players' :cool: Don't try and put words in my mouth Paul, I have mentioned sacking players yes, but no mention of sacking coaches, if I thought that I certainly would have posted it! I have in previous seasons
It's interesting how you can actually think you can correct an opinion, as opposed to merely listing a different or opposing one. But it's good to know we have a barometer at the Devils to measure all of our thoughts and opinions on. Phew. You lose me there, it's called debate, and I am in no way trying to change your opinion, the fact I don't agree with everything you post seems to irritate you, so be it.

You make some valid points also, Thank you so much, which ones exactly?
however where I totally lose you is that you are analysing the performances of the team whilst simultaneously dismissing all other results fro all other teams. Surely the only measure of how any team performs is within the context of its own competition? Exactly, and you state that you don't think the Devils are doing bad, it's just that other teams are doing better :DWD I haven't mentioned expectations at all, I have simply stated that the team are not performing to their hyped up capabilities.

So how could you possibly assess the Devils and discard other results? Thats the part that makes no sense to me. You are totally unprepared to give any credit for how we play to our opposition then? I am giving full credit to other teams as they seem to have more team spirit, grit and determination in their rosters than we do. I can forgive losing to better teams, but cannot forgive under par performances from players who appear to be not bothered to put in the effort required of them. Some just aren't good enough and have to go otherwise fans will react by staying away.
Wow. Were you expecting us to be so dominant that it didn't matter who anyone else signed or who we played on any given night? I knew expectations were high but I never expected anything that lofty My expectations were never high, all my previous posts have stated that I saw us ending up mid table or just above, not good enough to challenge for a championship and maybe fortunate to make the play offs, I stand by that comment[/b]FWIW I haven't spoken to either G or Franny regarding NHL'er availability. You confuse me also by saying you are sure that I am honest but that that is the only response I could make, as I am close to the team? Lucky for me the only option I had was my honest opinion then. Again, phew. I never mentioned whether you had or hadn't spoken to G or franny about NHL eligibility players, and I firmly believe you are too close to the team to express opinions that I - any many others - have about the current squad.


It will be interesting to see what unfolds in the coming weeks. I think this group can turn things around. Though as that's just an opinion I am sure you may well correct it for me :lol: I have no intention of trying to change your opinion on this or anything else, I sincerely hope you are right, if no changes are made they are the ones we will be depending won't they. However, I don't think this group can turn things around.

You seem to mistake my faith in G and Franny for believing they would not make a change if they (and they are in charge) felt it necessary. Not so. Please feel free to show me where they have had the Devils doing anything other than punching above their weight in the last few years and I will happily accept another correction of opinion. No doubt in bold typeface to give it that little extra gravitas ;)
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I haven't mentioned anything about past seasons, you have, its not part of my posts. Put it this way, the team certainly aren't punching above their weight this season are they? If some of our performances could be compared to a boxing match, the trainer would have thrown in the towel in many games ( just like some of our players seemed to have done!)

Oh yes, by the way, I think it's time to bring in a decent available NHLer who will instill a bit more muscle and pride in our team, it would most definately be an incentive for bigger crowds.
 
Koop11

Koop11

Well-Known Member
#64
#64
In general I agree that if you can get an NHLer on the terms that Drew Miller has allegedly signed for then yes, of course it makes good business sense. The Weller effect brought massive crowds to Cardiff but Weller helped bring success and that is what kept the crowd figures up that season – a winning team.

There are however other factors that needs to be considered for sustainable crowd numbers and that includes good marketing, fair ticket prices, accessibility to the venue and a good product on the ice. An NHLer would be a boost short term but not necessarily long term.

The season after Weller left, the crowds dwindled again - an average team. This season, a better team on paper (although has under performed in a few games) but ticket prices are up and marketing not at the level it perhaps once was.

We have to come back to the harsh facts. In reality we have no right to be playing at this level. We average say 1300 fans in a rink that is falling apart, not appropriately designed to host hockey, is not the most accessible and offers very limited cooperate facilities for long term investment.

IMO, until assurances that planning permission has been accepted on the new rink and maybe other ongoing factors are sorted then I don’t see there being huge investment into the squad. From business perspective, I can understand that. Speculate to accumulate is important but it’s a balance. We speculated to accumulate in the 2010-2011 season and look what happened that summer (although I think much of that was down to the poor decision to purchase a heavily debted Sheffield Steelers).
 
Paul Sullivan

Paul Sullivan

Well-Known Member
#65
#65
osh said:
I haven't mentioned anything about past seasons, you have, its not part of my posts. Put it this way, the team certainly aren't punching above their weight this season are they? If some of our performances could be compared to a boxing match, the trainer would have thrown in the towel in many games ( just like some of our players seemed to have done!)
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However you do question their recruiting and tactical ability. I was asking you to back that up by showing where the Devils have done anything other than overachieve compared to others under their stewardship. Or are you disregarding their track record as being just as irrelevant as the rosters and abilities of our opponents?

Goes towards the accused's competence, m'lud ;)

As for the bold typeface, there is a quotation feature that means you don't need to do it.
 
O

osh

Well-Known Member
#66
#66
Paul Sullivan said:
osh said:
I haven't mentioned anything about past seasons, you have, its not part of my posts. Put it this way, the team certainly aren't punching above their weight this season are they? If some of our performances could be compared to a boxing match, the trainer would have thrown in the towel in many games ( just like some of our players seemed to have done!)
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However you do question their recruiting and tactical ability. I was asking you to back that up by showing where the Devils have done anything other than overachieve compared to others under their stewardship. Or are you disregarding their track record as being just as irrelevant as the rosters and abilities of our opponents?

Goes towards the accused's competence, m'lud ;) Your usual arrogant, patronising self, and I'm certainly competent in debating any subject with you without trying to be as smug as you

As for the bold typeface, there is a quotation feature that means you don't need to do it.
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Yes indeed I do question their recruiting and tactical ability. Some players are playing to their full capability and give their all out on the ice. Others aren't playing well and don't give their all. I am not impressed by some of the players that have been recruited, I back it up by saying we are under achieving this season m'lud. :DWD Tactically, surely you don't think we are convincing on D do you? Our PP is poor, our PK is poor, we don't clear the defensive zone with any authority, apart from one line, we are not convincing going forward. As for the bold preface, please don't tell me how I need to make myself clear when replying to posts, I answered your question reasonably. I think we're done on this one don't you, let's just agree to disagree and see how others view the current situation eh.
 
Paul Sullivan

Paul Sullivan

Well-Known Member
#68
#68
Osh,

Obviously smileys are lost on you when injecting some light-heartedness into a debate.

You want to just talk facts? OK.

You say Devils performances are bad (you don't stipulate whether you mean the wins in Sheffield, home to Sheffield, against Coventry and against Nottingham are also so lets assume you do) yet you ignore the context of our opposition and their performance. That is completely illogical.

You question the ability of our coaches yet fail / refuse to highlight where in their stewardship they have done anything other than a good job for the Devils given their resources.

You make it personal once again instead of about just the post. A luxury I don't have and you have refused to debate this in the real world with your own brand of arrogance and patronisation about being in my company. Pot, kettle.

It will be interesting to see whether / how you answer Finny's question, with (if at all) any specifics on how we should be above three teams who have spent considerably more than us on wages. Though I would point out that perhaps figure in Braehead's wage bill is higher than ours, as is Coventry's (albeit an injured roster). We're above them, but as you don't think their performances are in any way relevant in order to suit your criticism of G and Frany no doubt you will ignore that other fact.

In the absence of your willingness to focus on facts such as these I would say you and I are done on this subject yes. Unless you ever pop up in the real world and it can be discussed there. I doubt it.

But please don't presume to tell me what topic I am done on just because my opinion doesn't suit your version of our situation.
 
Foxy

Foxy

Well-Known Member
#70
#70
If only there was as much passion and attitude shown on the ice lol where's the popcorn smilee when you want one. :D

I do think bringing in an NHL'r would be a good idea id even settle for Weller coming back into the team.

The D for some reason this season so far are not clicking and although Osaer has been left out to dry on a number of occasions i do wonder whether it was a mistake letting Lyle go and not going for the extra import out front.

We cant go on like we are for too many more games or we wont be going for any silverwear this year which i believe was Ragans intention. Maybe not the league but.........
 
G

Gaz G

Well-Known Member
#71
#71
For me it's definately time to gas someone and bring in some new blood. Yes we have won a couple of games against Sheffield, Coventry and Nottingham but we are clearly struggling. An NHLer would work for me even if it is only for a short time. Would give the team a boost, the fans a boost and the attendances a boost hopefully kick starting our season.

Paul, if you reply to this post, please don't be as patronising and smug as you have been in response to osh's comments. I don't have the time to get into it.
 
O

osh

Well-Known Member
#72
#72
Finny said:
Where did you expect us to be in the tables then osh?
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Oops, sorry Finny, I missed this earlier. I had based my pre season hopes on a normal one system league set up, not the two tiered conference system that was announced pre season. As already stated, I expected us to have a mid table or slightly higher finishing position by the end of the season. I had no expectations at all as to where we would be at this stage of the season. So, if we end up mid table or slightly above, that will do for me. If we are even higher, even better, lower than mid table would be disappointing. All of that was before NHL players became available, which is what the topic is all about. To put it into context, If we were playing to our full capabilities and players were doing their best irrespective of losing games, it wouldn't bother me too much. The fact is, we aren't playing consistently good enough, there must be reasons for it, I and other forum members have voiced their opinions on the team performances. They aren't good enough and a lot of fans agree.
Strange that a lot of forum members don't seem willing to post on this subject.
How do you think we are doing this season Finny, are you happy with every player, are you happy to keep the present team until the end of the season? If finances allow, would you bring in an NHLer or good AHLer?
 
Paul Sullivan

Paul Sullivan

Well-Known Member
#73
#73
*sigh*

Why would I even disagree Gaz? I said I have total faith in G and Franny. If they think we should make a change I would support that 100%. I wonder whether the people thinking a change is necessary feel they have not already considered this themselves? I would be amazed if they hadn't.

No need to get personal either. Osh didn't have time or inclination to debate the facts, it (Osh is pretty gender non-specific) just seemed to want to pick holes more in my opinion than have a reasoned debate about performances, opposition and our League position.

Thankfully you don't. I've stated my thoughts, and backed them up a further few times. Some people seem to want to disagree with the ideas more based on where they come from than the merit of them themselves.

http prerogative I guess.
 
Paul Sullivan

Paul Sullivan

Well-Known Member
#74
#74
osh said:
Finny said:
Where did you expect us to be in the tables then osh?
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Oops, sorry Finny, I missed this earlier. I had based my pre season hopes on a normal one system league set up, not the two tiered conference system that was announced pre season. As already stated, I expected us to have a mid table or slightly higher finishing position by the end of the season. I had no expectations at all as to where we would be at this stage of the season. So, if we end up mid table or slightly above, that will do for me. If we are even higher, even better, lower than mid table would be disappointing. All of that was before NHL players became available, which is what the topic is all about. To put it into context, If we were playing to our full capabilities and players were doing their best irrespective of losing games, it wouldn't bother me too much. The fact is, we aren't playing consistently good enough, there must be reasons for it, I and other forum members have voiced their opinions on the team performances. They aren't good enough and a lot of fans agree.
Strange that a lot of forum members don't seem willing to post on this subject.
How do you think we are doing this season Finny, are you happy with every player, are you happy to keep the present team until the end of the season? If finances allow, would you bring in an NHLer or good AHLer?
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That's a great post. Good to hear the expectation and insight. Hopefully we can maintain or improve on current positioning then and we are all happy. :D
 
G

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#75
#75
Paul Sullivan said:
*sigh*

Why would I even disagree Gaz? I said I have total faith in G and Franny. If they think we should make a change I would support that 100%. I wonder whether the people thinking a change is necessary feel they have not already considered this themselves? I would be amazed if they hadn't.

No need to get personal either. Osh didn't have time or inclination to debate the facts, it (Osh is pretty gender non-specific) just seemed to want to pick holes more in my opinion than have a reasoned debate about performances, opposition and our League position.

Thankfully you don't. I've stated my thoughts, and backed them up a further few times. Some people seem to want to disagree with the ideas more based on where they come from than the merit of them themselves.

http prerogative I guess.
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Calling you Patronising and Smug isnt a personal attack as such as it is an observation.

I've said it to you in the past and now two other posters have noted it as well. Maybe IT is better to take this advice on board and adjust how you speak to people? Rather than continuing to tell them they are some how attacking you?

If people feel that you are like this they should feel free to do so. Every time someone calls into question your character your default to your usual types of 'HTTP perogative' and 'attack the post not the poster' I would equally say that I find your posting style to be quite rude at times which is just as bad as 'attacking the post not the poster'

I'm no angel I'll give anyone that! Difference Is i will hold my hands up to that every day of the week and twice on Sundays. But not once have I ever seen you type 'i'm sorry if i came accross that way' it's always 'poor me, please stop attacking me' Sometimes you are at fault you know? Just like we all are at some stage!

You get out what you put in imo. And I think the whole please stop attacking the poster thing should be brought up by people whom are never guilty of such a thing. Which is essentially no one on hockey forums!

we're all in this together!
 
A

A#45

New Member
#77
#77
At the risk of interjecting into an argument that is none of my business...

The golden rule of marketing is not to alienate those who you are trying to reach. Existing customers are the most valuable resorce you have to promote your business. They are usually passionate about the product and keen to promote it. Arguing with them on a forum is not the best way forward.

You either change the product or try to change the way the customers perceive the product. I think you are spending too much time trying to do the latter.

The new marketing girl has alot on her plate - the very best of luck to her!
 
voth26

voth26

Well-Known Member
#78
#78
Guys no disrespect but i'm getting a tad fed up of reading posts between people who seem to have an issue with how a post is written,or how a post is perceived? can we get back on topic about SHOULD WE SIGN A NHL'ER thank you
 
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