Latest rink update
- Thread starter Wannabe2
- Start date
So frustrating to see such delays again, more so after all thé hard work put in by those fans who have campaigned on our behalf for so long. We were led to believe that it was just a matter of dotting the i's and crossing the t's and the work would have started some time ago. Quite honestly, if the project doesn't start until January as has been suggested, we won't even be in a new rink for the start of the 15/16 season.
Not being rude, but there never have been 'delays'. The fact is that planning permission was only released in June (following the signing of a legal agreement whereby Greenbank has to pay for new crossings and footpaths amongst other things, in association with the development of the Ice Arena). Since then, we've been busy designing the detail of the Arena so we can get it costed. I think a start on site within six months of getting planning permission is pretty miraculous personally, especially when you look at the pace of other development in Cardiff.
I have no idea from where others get their facts, but I would not place too much store by them. It remains the case that we hope to get a formal contract in place for the Ice Arena in December, and this has not changed since Day One. Greenbank really can't be held responsible for dates and promises proffered by other parties.
I have no idea from where others get their facts, but I would not place too much store by them. It remains the case that we hope to get a formal contract in place for the Ice Arena in December, and this has not changed since Day One. Greenbank really can't be held responsible for dates and promises proffered by other parties.
You're certainly not being rude, very informative in fact. However, despite what you say, there definitely has been delays for many years! I certainly haven't mentioned anyone by name who is responsible for this latest delay. You have taken it upon yourself to speak on behalf of Greenbank, well done. Lets hope you can keep us informed a little more in the future eh
still can't believe you are still only in the design stage in order to get it costed! Unbelievable really.
"Since then, we've been busy designing the detail of the Arena so we can get it costed". Ok with out being rude or stupid and this is a genuine question but when Greenbank were selected to build the new rink I assumed that they would have already done the design and costing stage before hand, how can you put your company forward to erect a building that is going to cost your company around £16 million give or take a few pounds either side, and not have an idea of what it's going to cost when it comes to build the thing!!!
I'm assuming because Greenbank will not be the sole builder of this project. i.e Greenbank will put out to tender groundwork, roofing, carpentry, etc and subcontract all their work. Quantity Surveyors will price everything from the cost per brick for labour and materials up to the biggest items. It isnt as simple as a builder turning up giving a rough price and just cracking on. It's like building a house, the house building company will not do all the work themselves they will give it out to various different contractors. The new rink may not be exclusively like this but this is what most projects are like now.
There will be tenders, sectional agreements with utilities and local authority (pkus ecological and educational supplements) which will have been imposed by planners, all of which now need to be factored in and which will affect the viability and budgets for the build. Then after you've tweaked the design to meet planning stipulations you can put things out to tender and see how the tender estimates affect your anticipated costs. As the contract is for more than £4.3M tenders may need to be invited via the Official Journal of the European Union unless they can carve it all up into agreements for smaller amounts. Planning is only the end of the beginning!
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Greenbank are obviously going to complete this build within the terms of the Development Agreement and have previously indicated they would try to be well ahead of that date, perhaps they may have been a little over optimistic but they will still complete within the timescales set out in that agreement.
Others may have been a little over optimistic too, possibly without knowing the terms of the Development agreement. There was allways going to be some slack in there in a development of this size, it would be foolish not to think that, too much positivity maybe ?
The main issue now, as OSH rightly says, is the conditions that we have to put up with until the completion date of the arena, the start date is irrelavent.
Greenbank could just go and dig the car park up and say 'There you are we have started'It won t bring the completion date nearer
Others may have been a little over optimistic too, possibly without knowing the terms of the Development agreement. There was allways going to be some slack in there in a development of this size, it would be foolish not to think that, too much positivity maybe ?
The main issue now, as OSH rightly says, is the conditions that we have to put up with until the completion date of the arena, the start date is irrelavent.
Greenbank could just go and dig the car park up and say 'There you are we have started'It won t bring the completion date nearer
Quite clearly this is a delay! Scrolling back through the "Latest Rink Update " topic, , it has been quoted time and time again that we would be playing out of our rink by next December 2014. That is obviously not going to happen is it? So, as stated, yet another delay, no matter how you try to dress it up as anything else. It seems to be one excuse after another, but as long as we get a rink we have to accept what is happening. Even Paul Ragan is unhappy about it.
Obviously Osh I bow down to your obvious experience as a Captain of the property and construction industries, but I can't understand where you get the moral right to criticise a company that is trying to create a tangible sporting legacy for Cardiff: not only for the Devils, but for all if the Ice Community including all the amateurs and children who pay their money for the love of the sport.
Most of the delays occurred long before Greenbank's involvement. Greenbank only received planning permission on 17 June, and have committed to commence a build out of the Arena within 6 months of this. Compare that with other development in Cardiff such as Bayscape and the Glass Needle. All the more exceptional when Greenbank knows it may lose £13m on the project.
Although Paul Ragan may feel this affects his 'business', there are wider concerns for the development: namely, making it fit for purpose for all users, including new users for curling, speed skating and, most importantly to me, children and the disabled. We have to cost out every plug, light fitting, seat, refrigeration unit and suchlike with subcontractors and, like it or not, this takes time.
It's no crime to be ignorant, but when ignorance is expressed so forcefully, one has to question your motives. It is essential that this development moves forward and that people understand the issues.
Best wishes
Most of the delays occurred long before Greenbank's involvement. Greenbank only received planning permission on 17 June, and have committed to commence a build out of the Arena within 6 months of this. Compare that with other development in Cardiff such as Bayscape and the Glass Needle. All the more exceptional when Greenbank knows it may lose £13m on the project.
Although Paul Ragan may feel this affects his 'business', there are wider concerns for the development: namely, making it fit for purpose for all users, including new users for curling, speed skating and, most importantly to me, children and the disabled. We have to cost out every plug, light fitting, seat, refrigeration unit and suchlike with subcontractors and, like it or not, this takes time.
It's no crime to be ignorant, but when ignorance is expressed so forcefully, one has to question your motives. It is essential that this development moves forward and that people understand the issues.
Best wishes
