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- Thread starter Wannabe2
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#2,003
Keep up the great work Sir Steve of Cardiff, we are most certainly on our way, together I believe we are going to be unstoppable, we have it all going for us our new home is truelly bloody lovely, yes 10 yrs in the waiting was a bummer, but it really is a beautiful place to watch hockey, for me the best in the league when you take everything into consideration. This is truelly a great moment in time to be a Devils fan, comparable to day one when we queude for friggin miles around our new rink, excited to see something that was new and thrilling. So let's take the play-offs finish our season with a bang and prepare to rip the other pretenders apart next season, and together with our lovely new gaff and a Red Army that no other team can come close to let's kick rump. HAPPY HOCKEY DAYS.
I fully agree and well negotiated sir but the IAW holding 3088 plus the lack off rental overhead equating to say 1000 fans gives you a financial ticket revenue of 4088 a game. Panthers average over 5000 fans a season hence my take being if you have that % revenue share off the bar and food that goes some way to bridging that thousand fan difference. The main revenue difference is then merchandise and corporate. Panthers merchandise sales you would deduce would be higher with 2000 more fans so between the two clubs it then comes down to sponsorship.
The Devils are though now in a completely different financial league than ever before in the EIHL era. It's something the Panthers and Steelers fans seem to have completely not cottoned on to. It's quite amusing.
The Devils are though now in a completely different financial league than ever before in the EIHL era. It's something the Panthers and Steelers fans seem to have completely not cottoned on to. It's quite amusing.
Couldn't agree more, Wannabe. I feel so lucky to have a role in your team and your city. I certainly don't underestimate the work and loyalty that's been put in by so many incredible people that brought the arena and the team to where it is today. I feel a large responsibility to make sure that we do everything we can on our end to match that. Happy Hockey Days indeed...but much happier if we take home that playoff hardware!
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#2,006
There is of course other factors to consider, Nottingham and Sheffield are dumps to live in compared to beautiful, exciting and Vibrant Cardiff. Our club has confirmed it looks after players like no other, yes money is a factor, but enjoying where you live is also huge. That's a huge factor in how we have always been able to keep players that we have wanted to return. Voth being a prime example, big arena clubs had zero chance of signing him, Joey Martin and others returned for similar reasons.
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#2,007
Our team, and Our City Steve, you are now as Welsh as me and 3,000 other privileged and blessed people, Coming from Gods country twinned with Canada obviously it don't get much better than this. This incredible trip that we are all on is truelly something else, even the close season now is going to get the blood pumping around the veins, and what a great feeling that is, no hockey but a time full of excitement. HAPPY HOCKEY DAYS
If I read it right Centrum was a not for profit operstion - if so then the comparison is invalid. Please correct me if I am wrong
I would not compare speculative office/shop builds with a new leisure complex build with a 10 year (BBT) established client base which csn be grown
Seems your pessimism is leading you to false comparisons to justify your views - but as I say I am open to correction on Centrum
I would not compare speculative office/shop builds with a new leisure complex build with a 10 year (BBT) established client base which csn be grown
Seems your pessimism is leading you to false comparisons to justify your views - but as I say I am open to correction on Centrum
You're comparing the Centrum with IAW? Seriously?
Yes the Centrum was a similar size to IAW (albeit slightly smaller) but that's pretty much where the similarities stop.
Cardiff is a city of nearly 350,000 people. It's metropolitan surrounding area has a population of over 1 million.
The Centrum was in Prestwick. A town with a population of 15,000. The whole region of South Ayrshire only contains just over 100,000 people. When I visited it in 2001 I couldn't work out how it was financially viable. There just werent enough people there to use it on a daily basis. When the ISL started to get too expensive the Eagles went bust and there was no way to sustain the rink.
If they ever build a 3000 seat arena in Porth, I'll let you use this example again. Because that would be a far better comparison.
Yes the Centrum was a similar size to IAW (albeit slightly smaller) but that's pretty much where the similarities stop.
Cardiff is a city of nearly 350,000 people. It's metropolitan surrounding area has a population of over 1 million.
The Centrum was in Prestwick. A town with a population of 15,000. The whole region of South Ayrshire only contains just over 100,000 people. When I visited it in 2001 I couldn't work out how it was financially viable. There just werent enough people there to use it on a daily basis. When the ISL started to get too expensive the Eagles went bust and there was no way to sustain the rink.
If they ever build a 3000 seat arena in Porth, I'll let you use this example again. Because that would be a far better comparison.
When people suggested that 3000 wasn't big enough, I confidently said it would be. I have to admit I'm starting to doubt myself now.
You expect a big crowd for opening night, but I thought we'd struggle to sell out as it was same day as England v Wales. I was wrong. I was also wrong when I thought we'd see a drop the following night but again we sold out. And the following week v Nottm.
Of course it's still new and a novelty and we've played three games against big teams. The real test will be next season when we play Fife, Edinburgh etc. But even I am starting to look around before games and try to work out where we can add standing or maybe even a balcony like we did in the WNIR.
Although it should also be remembered that because the small plot of land allocated for it, this us as big as we could go without losing the second pad.
You expect a big crowd for opening night, but I thought we'd struggle to sell out as it was same day as England v Wales. I was wrong. I was also wrong when I thought we'd see a drop the following night but again we sold out. And the following week v Nottm.
Of course it's still new and a novelty and we've played three games against big teams. The real test will be next season when we play Fife, Edinburgh etc. But even I am starting to look around before games and try to work out where we can add standing or maybe even a balcony like we did in the WNIR.
Although it should also be remembered that because the small plot of land allocated for it, this us as big as we could go without losing the second pad.
It's completely valid.
You can compare it to an multi purpose arena built to replace an existing rink in a location that had a large user base, the first Wembley final Ayr fans filled 32 coaches. Whilst the population compared to Cardiff was smaller, what is more important is the % of users and potential growth within the population.
Looking at other arenas built & comparison of "fans" to population in my opinion Cardiff has missed an opportunity.
You can compare it to an multi purpose arena built to replace an existing rink in a location that had a large user base, the first Wembley final Ayr fans filled 32 coaches. Whilst the population compared to Cardiff was smaller, what is more important is the % of users and potential growth within the population.
Looking at other arenas built & comparison of "fans" to population in my opinion Cardiff has missed an opportunity.
So we now go on a different tack
Comparing to a multi purpose arena - IAW is not this
Lost opportunity - what is this?
I don't know Ayr but did it have a footbal team playing in a UK wide leauge, did it have a rugby club playing at the highest level with a long tradition and did it have a plethora of sporting venues for a wide variety of sport all of which are competition. In that context IAW is sized to compete and take its opportunity (as ever though it does depend on its management)
One thing I do know is that our sport does not live in the arens era anymore - just look at the history of Storm (and others but I know Storm) before donning the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia for a comparison
I'm giving up on this for now no foubt we will engage later
Comparing to a multi purpose arena - IAW is not this
Lost opportunity - what is this?
I don't know Ayr but did it have a footbal team playing in a UK wide leauge, did it have a rugby club playing at the highest level with a long tradition and did it have a plethora of sporting venues for a wide variety of sport all of which are competition. In that context IAW is sized to compete and take its opportunity (as ever though it does depend on its management)
One thing I do know is that our sport does not live in the arens era anymore - just look at the history of Storm (and others but I know Storm) before donning the rose tinted glasses of nostalgia for a comparison
I'm giving up on this for now no foubt we will engage later
So you're saying that IAW is going to fail because it's too small?
We tried explaining this to you before, that the Devils and IAW are run by different companies. The profitability of IAW will depend on it's daily use by other ice users. The Cardiff Devils are just a small part of that. Two pads means it can have twice as much use and a far better chance of being profitable.
I'm more than slightly bemused though by using the Centrum as a reason to back this up?
We tried explaining this to you before, that the Devils and IAW are run by different companies. The profitability of IAW will depend on it's daily use by other ice users. The Cardiff Devils are just a small part of that. Two pads means it can have twice as much use and a far better chance of being profitable.
I'm more than slightly bemused though by using the Centrum as a reason to back this up?
How many times has Ayr had an ice hockey team? And how many times have they gone bust because they were unsustainable?
Yes Ayr had the occastion support of around 2000 fans, but that tended to be when they were winning. After their ISL Grand Slam season the attendances dropped to below 2000 and so the team went bust. The Centrum went bust because it wasn't getting enough daily customers. Partially due to the fact that there is still an Ice Rink down the road in Ayr which caters for curling and figure skating.
Yes Ayr had the occastion support of around 2000 fans, but that tended to be when they were winning. After their ISL Grand Slam season the attendances dropped to below 2000 and so the team went bust. The Centrum went bust because it wasn't getting enough daily customers. Partially due to the fact that there is still an Ice Rink down the road in Ayr which caters for curling and figure skating.
The Devils use IAW on about 30 match nights a year. That is tiny in comparison to usage the rest of the year. There is no problem in selling the ice slots available and that is what the IAW business plan is based on. Anyone who thinks it is dependent on the Devils alone is deluded. Once and for all it is not a multi purpose arena. It is a twin pad purpose built ice rink where very occasional other events may take place.
Thank you Finney
I now see Centrum Ayr was a commercial operation as opposed to the Centrum Columbus which I referenced (interestingly there are comparisons - e.g. wrong part of town as redevelopment got underway)
Whilst it makes little difference to the conclusions most of us on here reach I am disappointed that, given the invitation, Electra did not correct me
As I suspect most of us recognise there is a lot of emotional shooting from the hip without real attention to detail
I now see Centrum Ayr was a commercial operation as opposed to the Centrum Columbus which I referenced (interestingly there are comparisons - e.g. wrong part of town as redevelopment got underway)
Whilst it makes little difference to the conclusions most of us on here reach I am disappointed that, given the invitation, Electra did not correct me
As I suspect most of us recognise there is a lot of emotional shooting from the hip without real attention to detail
Finny suggested the capacity issue, l simply asked if he believes that.
The IAW is pretty much a copy of the Centrum.
The IAW is promoted as a multi purpose arena, hence their reference to hoping to attract non ice events. Boxing being mentioned.
The Centrum also attracted the likes of Torvill & Dean, circus acts and motorcycle exhibitions.
It's difficult to correct people here, as has been more than demonstrated.
The IAW is pretty much a copy of the Centrum.
The IAW is promoted as a multi purpose arena, hence their reference to hoping to attract non ice events. Boxing being mentioned.
The Centrum also attracted the likes of Torvill & Dean, circus acts and motorcycle exhibitions.
It's difficult to correct people here, as has been more than demonstrated.