Increased activity outside IAW …..

Finny

Well-Known Member
Interesting how people get different views from Johnson’s press conference today.

For some it’s a chance to have another dig at Drakeford and the Welsh Government.

For me, sadly, it was the suggestion that we might not get a full EIHL season.
“Things are getting worse, enjoy your summer as we might have to go back into lockdown this winter”

Worst possible people in charge at the worst possible time.
 

RedDevil17

Well-Known Member
For some it’s a chance to have another dig at Drakeford and the Welsh Government.
Quite rightfully so. One thing’s for sure is that Drakeford aka the tinpot dictator will be under even more intense scrutiny after July 19th. The data in Wales doesn’t justify the need for any real restrictions anymore. Deaths are low. As Boris and co have said, it’s time to learn to live with COVID just as we do any other disease.
 
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Have a look at current infection rates - they are going through the roof in some areas of Wales especially Cardiff. eg close to 700 per 100k in Cathays

As far as Scotland reopening on 4 August is concerned, how can that happen when Scotland has the highest rate of infection in the whole of Europe.

Ask anybody in England whether they was Mark Drakeford or Boris Johnson in charge.

I hope that politicians or health professionals dont read this forum as it would give the wrong impression of what Devils fans are about.

Before anyone asks I am a card carrying member of the Labour Party
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
I can’t believe people are still banging on about case rates as an excuse to keep restrictions in Wales.
Just to avoid any accusations of political bias, these graphs were produced by The Guardian no less, data correct up to 1st July.
1625525244312.jpeg
 
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kingmo19.1

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #365
Have a look at current infection rates - they are going through the roof in some areas of Wales especially Cardiff. eg close to 700 per 100k in Cathays

As far as Scotland reopening on 4 August is concerned, how can that happen when Scotland has the highest rate of infection in the whole of Europe.

Ask anybody in England whether they was Mark Drakeford or Boris Johnson in charge.

I hope that politicians or health professionals dont read this forum as it would give the wrong impression of what Devils fans are about.

Before anyone asks I am a card carrying member of the Labour Party
Respect your opinion, however, cases are not the main focus any longer - it’s the number of deaths that is now the important factor.

The successful vaccine program has broken the earlier correlation between cases and associated high death rates per the graphs posted above.

To be honest, I don’t think 90% of people are adhering to the rules anyway, so they are more or less useless.
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
I hope that politicians or health professionals dont read this forum as it would give the wrong impression of what Devils fans are about.

Before anyone asks I am a card carrying member of the Labour Party
I don’t think it gives the wrong impression at all. My money is on opinion here absolutely reflecting the thoughts of the Devils fan base, whether they agree with you or not - or whether that fits in with your socialist agenda or not.
 

NathanG

Active Member
The most vulnerable are vaccinated and there hasnt been a recored death in how many days now? Wasn't that the aim to vaccinate the most vulnerable in order not to overwhelm the NHS? I don't care what the Tories do in England, Drakeford is our problem and he's shown a lack of leadership, in my opinion. He just tip toes behind Brois. It's quite pathetic really.

In case anyone was wondering. I didn't vote Labour, never have, never will.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Quite rightfully so. One thing’s for sure is that Drakeford aka the tinpot dictator will be under even more intense scrutiny after July 19th. The data in Wales doesn’t justify the need for any real restrictions anymore. Deaths are low. As Boris and co have said, it’s time to learn to live with COVID just as we do any other disease.
How did you come to the conclusion that no real restrictions are needed anymore?

After watching last night's press conference and listening to other medical experts, the overwhelming consensus seems to be that some restrictions are still required in England. Both medical experts agreed that they will continue to wear masks in public for the foreseeable future.

Obviously the situation in Wales is a bit better at the moment, but from the Welsh Government's briefing yesterday it sounded like we might get a slight easing of restrictions but some would be still in place.
Yes we need to live with the virus, but that doesn't mean we just give up and try not to save people's health.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
I can’t believe people are still banging on about case rates as an excuse to keep restrictions in Wales.
Just to avoid any accusations of political bias, these graphs were produced by The Guardian no less, data correct up to 1st July.
But that graph wasn't produced to show why restrictions should be scrapped.
It was produced to show how the vaccine is working and why we don't need to go into lockdown (yet) despite the rapid increase in cases.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Respect your opinion, however, cases are not the main focus any longer - it’s the number of deaths that is now the important factor.
Disagree. The most important factor is hospitalisations - as this gives us the earliest possible indicator that something is 'going wrong'. If we wait for an increase in deaths it's already too late to save people.

The successful vaccine program has broken the earlier correlation between cases and associated high death rates per the graphs posted above.
In last night's briefing Vallance/Whitty said "the vaccine has weakened the correlation between cases and deaths but not broken it.
To be honest, I don’t think 90% of people are adhering to the rules anyway, so they are more or less useless.
That seems to be a bizarre argument to use. I'm not sure we should be basing rules and laws on the most stupid and selfish of people?From my own personal experience the majority of people are still obeying the rules.
You think 90% aren't?
Maybe that shows the difference in the company we both keep?
 
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moggy#9

Well-Known Member
Disagree. The most important factor is hospitalisations - as this gives us the earliest possible indicator that something is 'going wrong'. If we wait for an increase in deaths it's already too late to save people.


In last night's briefing Vallance/Whitty said "the vaccine has weakened the correlation between cases and deaths but not broken it.
That seems to be a bizarre argument to use. I'm not sure we should be basing rules and laws on the most stupid and selfish of people?From my own personal experience the majority of people are still obeying the rules.
You think 90% aren't?
Maybe that shows the difference in the company we both keep?[/QUOTE]
I think that relying on people's judgement has been problematic throughout the pandemic. That said the emphasis should be on how we can have something like normality, but with reasonable safety measures.

Perhaps the answer is to lockdown the under 30s.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
The most vulnerable are vaccinated and there hasnt been a recored death in how many days now?
Oh Nathan. When will you learn not to post the first thing that comes into your head in the early hours of the morning.
2 deaths were reported yesterday. So in answer to your question: 0 days.

Wasn't that the aim to vaccinate the most vulnerable in order not to overwhelm the NHS? I don't care what the Tories do in England, Drakeford is our problem and he's shown a lack of leadership, in my opinion. He just tip toes behind Brois. It's quite pathetic really.
That has to be one of the most laughable comments I've seen on here in a long time. Maybe ever.
Drakeford has shown leadership throughout the pandemic. That's why polling has consistently shown him to be the most popular leader in the UK. It's why Labour increased their share of the vote in May. Throughout the pandemic Drakeford has been clear what the rules are and why he has taken those decisions. You might not agree with him, but he has been clear and shown leadership.

Johnson on the other hand has shown very little leadership. But that's what you get when you vote for Populism.
"Go to work. Don't go to work. Stay at Home. Don't stay at home. Wear a mask. Unless you don't want to wear a mask"

Last night's press conference was one of the most embarrassing examples of a lack of leadership I've ever seen. Scientific and medical advisors openly disagreeing with government policy whilst the Prime Minister bumbled through his speech which was basically
"We've messed up and things are getting worse. But we're going to cancel all restrictions because we said we would. I'll be on off holiday by then though. See you back in Lockdown in the Autumn."
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
Wonder how many people are like me, one minute let’s get on with lifting restrictions, the next wondering if we should wait a wee bit longer. Not knowing what is going to happen to our club, and if we are going to be fine don’t help, and is a biased thing towards lifting things as we are missing the game and matchnight so much, however on the flip side peoples health is obviously the priority and the last thing we want is a set back. I’m worried about lifting everything in one go, masks although I hate wearing one maybe should be kept for awhile. Money and the economy is obviously huge in moving forward and I do believe we are going to have to live with this thing, but another set back could be the final straw for many. My head is back and forth like a bloody pendulum, if we had a definate date which can’t happen would be a bonus, but it’s the not knowing which is the bummer, there’s certainly good reasons for moving on, and good reasons for hanging fire, is my reason for moving on hockey based, if so is that a poor reason. Would be good to hear your views, although we have had many so far and how many of you guys are in the middle, also is it an age thing. Take good care all.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
I think that relying on people's judgement has been problematic throughout the pandemic. That said the emphasis should be on how we can have something like normality, but with reasonable safety measures.

Perhaps the answer is to lockdown the under 30s.
Listening to the medical and scientific experts, the advise appears to be to continue to relax restrictions slowly and carefully. Overall, hospitalisations and deaths are staying low. But in some areas where cases are highest they are starting to see a concerning increase in hospitalisations too. Which could lead to an increase in deaths over the coming weeks.

Scrapping the wearing of masks in public areas is ridiculous. Scrapping the need to register your details in pubs/bars/etc also seems ridiculous.
Opening nightclubs when the majority of people using them aren't double-jabbed?? Crazy.

We need to be careful the number of cases doesn't get out of control. The higher the number of people infected, the higher the chance of a new variant developing.
And if that variant is resistant to the vaccine? Game over.
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
I think
Wonder how many people are like me, one minute let’s get on with lifting restrictions, the next wondering if we should wait a wee bit longer. Not knowing what is going to happen to our club, and if we are going to be fine don’t help, and is a biased thing towards lifting things as we are missing the game and matchnight so much, however on the flip side peoples health is obviously the priority and the last thing we want is a set back. I’m worried about lifting everything in one go, masks although I hate wearing one maybe should be kept for awhile. Money and the economy is obviously huge in moving forward and I do believe we are going to have to live with this thing, but another set back could be the final straw for many. My head is back and forth like a bloody pendulum, if we had a definate date which can’t happen would be a bonus, but it’s the not knowing which is the bummer, there’s certainly good reasons for moving on, and good reasons for hanging fire, is my reason for moving on hockey based, if so is that a poor reason. Would be good to hear your views, although we have had many so far and how many of you guys are in the middle, also is it an age thing. Take good care all.
I think that restrictions Vs normality is a bit of a false dichotomy. Certain measures are quite low impact on people. Wearing masks for instance is not really not too much to ask. The problem is that masks are the most visible indication of what has been going on, and "freedom" has become politicised by those who don't like to be told what to do. We can have both a degree of normality and reduced risk. The problem is that this requires personal responsibility and a degree of pragmatism from the politicians. Neither of these seem to be in terribly great supply. For instance, I'm sure that a way could be found to reopen the rink for hockey, with the right controls. The problem is that at this point it is politically safer to not allow things than to find ways to allow them.
 
I think the next two/three weeks will be huge in WG deciding what restrictions to lift in the next review. The trouble at the minute is we have no clear indication yet on if a rise in cases means an exponential rise in hospitalisations and deaths when most adults are vaccinated.

Deaths and hospitalisations are at steady levels at the minute, but with the lag between cases and deaths, we're yet to see if the recent surge in cases is actually something we should worry about.

If the 500-1000 cases we're getting a day now don't end up with an increase in hospitalisations/deaths, then let's crack on in trying to get back to normal. Just my thoughts.
 
Oh Nathan. When will you learn not to post the first thing that comes into your head in the early hours of the morning.
2 deaths were reported yesterday. So in answer to your question: 0 days.


That has to be one of the most laughable comments I've seen on here in a long time. Maybe ever.
Drakeford has shown leadership throughout the pandemic. That's why polling has consistently shown him to be the most popular leader in the UK. It's why Labour increased their share of the vote in May. Throughout the pandemic Drakeford has been clear what the rules are and why he has taken those decisions. You might not agree with him, but he has been clear and shown leadership.

Johnson on the other hand has shown very little leadership. But that's what you get when you vote for Populism.
"Go to work. Don't go to work. Stay at Home. Don't stay at home. Wear a mask. Unless you don't want to wear a mask"

Last night's press conference was one of the most embarrassing examples of a lack of leadership I've ever seen. Scientific and medical advisors openly disagreeing with government policy whilst the Prime Minister bumbled through his speech which was basically
"We've messed up and things are getting worse. But we're going to cancel all restrictions because we said we would. I'll be on off holiday by then though. See you back in Lockdown in the Autumn."
I have to agree entirely following Bojo's hysterical yet worrying press conference yesterday. Even after the bbc had sifted through his blundering and tried to make him look coherent his quoted message was nothing short of farcical. He basically said "We're gonna go for it in July, even though the data says we shouldn't. If we wait longer then we wont be able to reduce restrictions because it might be out of control by then or it might be reaching 'flu season', which would mean we're restricted until next year." He's going for a suck it and see approach, potentially costing people their lives.

To back up the point about the Welsh Assembly Government, in immediate response to Boris' announcement the comment was simply "We're going to follow the science, not this Etonian buffoon with a body like a bag of milk"
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
But that graph wasn't produced to show why restrictions should be scrapped.
It was produced to show how the vaccine is working and why we don't need to go into lockdown (yet) despite the rapid increase in cases.
What it does show are that case rates are not the be all and end all anymore, which is the point I was making in response to Nott Simpson's post, which was advocating continuing restrictions based on case rate numbers alone.
 

NathanG

Active Member
Bottom line Finny, Boris has given people a choice and fully grown men are getting into hysterics about it.

2 deaths you say? We're they vaccinated, did they have underlying health issues.

If we can't open up now then when can we? It's time to crack on. If people are daft enough to refuse the vaccine then that's on them. If you've had the vaccine and still don't deem it safe then by all means, stay at home and hide away while the rest of us carry on. Wear a mask, don't wear a mask. It's been over a year now. Enough is enough. If the news weren't ramming figures down a our throat every single day, none of us would even be aware there's a "deadly" virus ripping through the population. Mostly thanks to the success of the vaccine.

That's it now. I'm not going to engage in any more discussion regarding Covid. That'll please one or two of you ha
 
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