Increased activity outside IAW …..

Earnie

Well-Known Member
In say five years time we may still have 500 cases of COVID.That is the nature of the beast that we will learn to live with. Some of them sadly may die. But we as a population of Wales under this Labour Control Freak need to live our lives without being dictated to , taking into account the whole population will be vaccinated.(Bar those inconsiderate ones who endanger us by not taking a vaccine)
IAW is the only ice rink in the U.K. that is not open. Show us the evidence of the reasons.
There are no Welsh Assemby experts to rule with authority on our ice rink. They have not even bothered visit the state of the art arena.
We need Cardiff Devils (and other users) back on the ice .
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
The situation is this: we are in the height of summer & we have had record vaccinations. Yesterday we recorded 416 cases across Wales. If Welsh Government thinks that's too high to unlock then we have a problem, if 416 cases is too high to unlock then what happens come winter when cases will probably rise again?

The reality is any amount of unlocking will cause cases to increase (not just covid but other respiratory infections too) and some of those people will sadly die as a result of those infections. But if we cannot unlock now with 416 cases in a country of 3,100,000 then what will Welsh Government do when cases shoot up again come winter?

Locking down to protect the NHS makes perfect sense, but the NHS is nowhere near danger. Keeping lockdown restrictions in order to stop cases rising, taken to its logical conclusion means we cannot fully unlock ever, and that means no ice hockey ever.
The issue is not what cases are today. The issue is what cases are going to be in 2 weeks, or 4 weeks or 2 months time.
Throughout the pandemic things get bad very quickly, and get better very slowly.

Cases are rising throughout the U.K. very quickly. Very, very quickly.
In the North West of England where the Delta outbreak originated, hospital admissions, ICU admissions and deaths all started to rise quickly too.
Twice in the last week they’ve reported 10 deaths in a day. Just three weeks ago it was averaging 2 a day.

There are signs that they’re increasing slower than before but this could change very quickly.

Who decides how many deaths a day are acceptable?
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
In the North West of England where the Delta outbreak originated, hospital admissions, ICU admissions and deaths all started to rise quickly too.
Twice in the last week they’ve reported 10 deaths in a day. Just three weeks ago it was averaging 2 a day.
What you're missing out though is that when it kicked off in the NW of England, initially amongst the Asian communities, the vaccination rates were very poor in those areas (for whatever reason, vaccine scepticism, etc ). There then followed a huge surge in vaccination uptake in those Northern towns and guess what, since then the case numbers/hospitalisations/deaths have slowed there. That’s the difference this time around, the efficacy of the vaccines - and has been stated numerous times in this thread, we in Wales have a better vaccination rate than anywhere else in the UK. If pressure on the NHS remains low, and after all, that was the key for closing down everything and restricting our civil liberties (and that means hospitalisations/serious illness remain low), then there is no justification for not lifting remaining restrictions, and certainly not allowing IAW to open, which is what this thread was initially all about (!). And one thing is for sure, we'll know that by July 19, from what happens in England and Scotland in the next couple of weeks. If they open up, then we will have to in Wales pretty soon afterwards, because I don’t think the Welsh public will stand by and let the rest of the UK lift remaining restrictions, while we're still limited in what we can do. And I think there's probably an alignment going on behind the scenes with the devolved governments and Westminster on that July 19 date, even if some still won’t publicise that date now. It's also worth noting from ONS data week ending 11th June, that COVID was responsible for 0.8% of all deaths in England and ten times more people were dying of flu and pneumonia there, than Covid (and even considering that, flu numbers are way down compared with “normal” years when we're mixing). Now ONS data is always a little bit behind but hospitalisations and death rates in England haven’t gone up that steeply since then, which is all positive news. They still remain low despite increasing case numbers. No-one wants any Covid deaths and one is too many - but this thing is here to stay unfortunately and economies have to eventually open up fully, otherwise death rates from poverty alone will far outweigh anything we've seen so far from this dreadful disease. I get it that people are nervous but no-one is forcing anyone to do anything, so if certain people are not comfortable going back to normal life and resuming things like going to watch the Devils, then they don’t have to.
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
There is a difference between opening with fully opening such that it is viable. I'm sure Todd is adressing this with WG though

But yesterday our CMO stated on Politics Wales that basic precautions (masks & distancing I assume) will continue for some time when everything is open. This makes it more critical that he visits IAW to see what is possible.
 

NathanG

Well-Known Member
Yeah I dont think we'll be having a jolly to Germany now. Good old Merkel. Boris deserves a kicking for his handling of the Delta variant. It seems ineptitude runs at all levels of government in the UK.
 
Just heard on the radio that the roof is going to be shut at Wimbledon and still allowing spectators in. So what is the difference now between that and a ice rink. It’s all becoming a my dog is bigger than your dog competition with these governments!
 

Earnie

Well-Known Member
What about the home CHL games?
Are the visiting teams and their fans allowed to travel? Everything so unclear. TK must be going potty with frustration .(along with the rest of us)
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
What about the home CHL games?
Are the visiting teams and their fans allowed to travel? Everything so unclear. TK must be going potty with frustration .(along with the rest of us)
More critically I can't see the team themselves being allowed to travel. The only option would be for them to go over a fortnight before to do their quarantine, but that would be prohibitively expensive. Also worth considering that some signings have cited chl as their reason for joining the devils. If we don't do chl, will they reconsider?
 

Diablo3

Well-Known Member
Yeah I dont think we'll be having a jolly to Germany now. Good old Merkel. Boris deserves a kicking for his handling of the Delta variant. It seems ineptitude runs at all levels of government in the UK.
Even Australia is now showing pockets of the Delta variant and they have the tightest border control. It's not down to Boris, it would have got here anyway.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Even Australia is now showing pockets of the Delta variant and they have the tightest border control. It's not down to Boris, it would have got here anyway.
Yes it would have got here eventually but by delaying it as long as possible we would have got a higher percentage of the population double-jabbed and so it's spread would have been slower.
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
More critically I can't see the team themselves being allowed to travel. The only option would be for them to go over a fortnight before to do their quarantine, but that would be prohibitively expensive. Also worth considering that some signings have cited chl as their reason for joining the devils. If we don't do chl, will they reconsider?
There must be dispensation for travelling sports teams, otherwise the Euros football wouldn’t be able to take place. Whether that applies to hockey - well, it has to for the competition to be viable if it wants British teams in there. But as for travelling fans going anywhere, I can’t see it, as things stand now - not for us anyway having left the EU, just like we witnessed for the Wales-Denmark game.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
What you're missing out though is that when it kicked off in the NW of England, initially amongst the Asian communities, the vaccination rates were very poor in those areas (for whatever reason, vaccine scepticism, etc ). There then followed a huge surge in vaccination uptake in those Northern towns and guess what, since then the case numbers/hospitalisations/deaths have slowed there.
I'm not missing anything.
It did look like the rate of increases in cases was starting to slow down, but the big jump in cases last week mean the rate looks like it is increasing again.
Hospitalisations have started to drop - but we won't know what the effect of last week's jump in cases will be for another week or so. Deaths continue to increase, but there is usually around a 21 day lag so we won't know for a while.

The good news is that at the moment hospitalisations and deaths are increasing at a much lower level than we have seen previously.
What we can't be certain of yet is whether that will continue.
Within the next week or so some areas will probably reach higher case rates than in any of those peaks. Will the vaccine continue to protect the majority of people in such circumstance?
Hopefully - but I think for now we should continue to tread carefully for a couple of weeks at least.
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
There must be dispensation for travelling sports teams, otherwise the Euros football wouldn’t be able to take place. Whether that applies to hockey - well, it has to for the competition to be viable if it wants British teams in there. But as for travelling fans going anywhere, I can’t see it, as things stand now - not for us anyway having left the EU, just like we witnessed for the Wales-Denmark game.
Ah, but the euros are going on under the current rules. What we're taking about is a change to the rules being applied to only the UK.
 
The odds for any hockey are lengthening daily. Infection rate in Cathays now 400+ having doubled ion 48 hours, other area also on an exponential upward trend
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
The odds for any hockey are lengthening daily. Infection rate in Cathays now 400+ having doubled ion 48 hours, other area also on an exponential upward trend
I suspect a strong correlation with cathays being student city. It'd be interesting to see some age distribution data on new infections.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
I suspect a strong correlation with cathays being student city. It'd be interesting to see some age distribution data on new infections.
It's something I've been trying to find, but haven't been able to yet.

So that people don't think I'm being only negative, the latest data for Wales is still giving us cause for optomism.
3 weeks after cases started to rise there has been no major increase in admissions or deaths. Admissions are actually starting to fall again which is really encouraging.
We should find out in the next couple of days whether that has changed after the big jump in cases last week.
 

NathanG

Well-Known Member
It's something I've been trying to find, but haven't been able to yet.

So that people don't think I'm being only negative, the latest data for Wales is still giving us cause for optomism.
3 weeks after cases started to rise there has been no major increase in admissions or deaths. Admissions are actually starting to fall again which is really encouraging.
We should find out in the next couple of days whether that has changed after the big jump in cases last week.
That's more like it ;)
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
The odds for any hockey are lengthening daily. Infection rate in Cathays now 400+ having doubled ion 48 hours, other area also on an exponential upward trend
With negativity like that, you should be working in the Senedd (sorry, I did mention no more politics). We have to break this mindset in the UK about case numbers, which is not easy as we've had them rammed down our throats from all angles in the media this past 16 months or so. We're surge testing asymptomatic people now as well, numbers are bound to go up. If hospitalisations and deaths follow the same trend, go up significantly and pressure is on the NHS, then I’m with you, let me be clear about that - but they’re not increasing in the same way as of now and that’s a very good indication that the vaccines are working - and IF that continues to be the case in the next few weeks, why wouldn’t there be any hockey?

The TV presenter, Andrew Marr, is a good case in point demonstrating what we're currently seeing - he was vaccinated twice and still tested positive, with symptoms like “a summer cold” as he put it. Not pleasant I’m sure, but no different to what most of us have to go through every year with other respiratory illnesses. That's the vaccines doing their job right there. They are largely preventing serious illness which require a hospital stay and if it means that you’re unlucky enough to get it after being fully vaccinated and that future symptoms if you’ve been vaccinated, are more “cold-like” for the vast majority (as seems to be the case with kids and younger adults too), then I can live with that and surely that‘s not a reason to stop what we love doing? Vaccination is the key and people who are fully vaccinated should be safe to get on with their lives - and by mid July that should be virtually all of the adult population (well those who want it anyway) - and if anyone doesn’t, that’s their choice but the rest of society will be moving on. If vaccine efficacy changes against future variants, then obviously we'll have to think again but there’s no sign of that at the moment.
 
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