3rd August

Wrote a big post about lots of things, but it’s just going to create more arguments. I don’t think the owners of TK are bad people, and I don’t think any of this was done to upset people.

I’ll be there at the first game I can attend.

I’ll give the new logo some time, see if it grows on me. If not, I’ll carry on wearing my old jerseys.

Still my team, still going to turn up. Still probably going to moan when we aren’t playing well/gloat when we beat Belfast and Sheffield.
 

Kevlar68

Well-Known Member
Ok some things could have been handled more diplomatically but it is surely just plain ignorant to piss off owners and management. They are what it says on the tin - owners and management. No place for a minority of selective fans to be arrogant and entitled.
The thing is opinions need to be heard or voiced otherwise we'd live in a rainbow land with unicorns.
Owners of any company need to listen to the positives and negatives related to any sector of the business, that's how a company can improve or not make the same mistake twice.
 
Ok some things could have been handled more diplomatically but it is surely just plain ignorant to piss off owners and management. They are what it says on the tin - owners and management. No place for a minority of selective fans to be arrogant and entitled.
Yes, some things could have and should have been communicated differently but surely it is also plain ignorant to ‘piss off’ your customer base, as they are also ‘what it says on the tin’ - passionate fans!

Were the fans that protested outside the WNIR for a full season arrogant and entitled?
Were the fans that formed SORAC and fought the Council arrogant and entitled?
If not for these fans the Club would have disappeared long before the guys in the white hats rode over the horizon to save the Club from oblivion!
No, of course not and many of those fans are the very same fans that have issue with the lack of communication of the re-brand.

The owners have gone on record many times positively referring to the Devils passionate fan base as a huge benefit to the Club.
However, passion is a two way street. You can’t turn it off an on, you can’t just be passionate when you enter the arena and meek when you leave it.
If you care about something so much and you think that you have been sidelined or ignored unjustly then it‘s only natural you will want to voice your displeasure.
In short to have passion for something in your life is a gift!

So my final words on the re- brand are these;
Which fan would you like?
A passionate fan or a passive fan?
 
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I was one of those outside the WNIR. Our reason for being there was a bit different.
Our current owners are the best we have ever had - let’s keep it that way.
I absolutely agree that the current ownership are the best we have ever had or maybe even ever likely to have,
but I also boycotted that I’ll fated season and although the reason for the protest may have been different the motivation was the same, passionate fans having their say.

But I also agree with you Ernie that it’s maybe time to move on from this and look forward to some hockey!
 
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E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
Ok some things could have been handled more diplomatically but it is surely just plain ignorant to piss off owners and management. They are what it says on the tin - owners and management. No place for a minority of selective fans to be arrogant and entitled.
Could be argued that arrogance is dismissing other people’s views because they don’t agree with yours.

Nothing wrong with voicing an opinion on a forum designed to talk about the Devils. It’s not like anyone has emailed them (the owners) directly or called them up. Not even the slightest bit entitled.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
is it really worth irritating the owners over a logo?i worry that this will get out of hand and cause the owners to walk away and then where will we be?these owners are the best we had and don't deserve some of the comments aimed at them.people need to calm down and get behind the new coach and team.
How does voicing an opinion about a logo or more accurately how it was handled mean that anyone is not supporting the new team or coach? I still haven’t seen anyone say they aren’t attending matches any more because of a logo. Bit of context required here.

Plus if those that are voicing an opinion are indeed the minority as so many point out I’d be staggered if that minority would be enough to piss off or force an ownership change. I haven’t seen one person ask for that.

Save all that nonsense for the Twitter likes. It just isn’t an accurate assessment of what’s happened here.

Not happy with how a logo had been rolled out (or even how it looks). Correct.

Not going to support the team and spend a fortune going to Grenoble, Belfast and the POFW. Incorrect

Want an ownership change? Nope
 
Yes, I don't think you are the only one this happens to :)

It's a good question and I suspect everyone will have a different view about those years but by common consensus, whilst the start of his ownership contained some positives and some good 'spin', by the end the club was at its lowest ever ebb (and yes I am including the protest year as that brought the fans together and there was a common purpose that you knew would stand the club well in the future). It was a bleak period in our history - to contrast with the current era, I remember a midweek game against Fife that we lost in OT where the attendance was somewhere in the 600s.

Prior to his ownership, the club had been kept competitive by excellent recruitment from (notably) Gerard Adams and Neil Francis and before this era there was a sense of us punching above our weight and whilst we didn't win much, we regularly humbled other teams and there was always a sense of a united club, waiting for the new arena and beating a few teams up whilst we did so. It was a decent time to be a Devils fan and 'G' and 'Franny' typified this, they understood the club and the fans.

Then came the new owner. Others can fill you in on exact details but the one thing that happened is that the fanbase was divided by a series of decisions that seemed, at best, not in line with the club's ethos. Adams and Francis were replaced by the late Brent Pope who had many qualities but coaching hockey teams and general man management were not two of them and the communication around the club collapsed. Worst of all the DNA of the club, winning and putting players first to give them the opportunity to do their best, were eroded. The club became a laughing stock and we had huge turnover of players, the majority of whom should have been nowhere near a Devils shirt. Much of the blame went to Pope, again, others closer to the club at the time will say if that is fair but the owner appointed him so..... to blame one man is disingenuous.

I don't know the reason for this and wouldn't heap all blame on the owner (I haven't got the evidence to do so) but what his reign did lead to was apathy and a lack of communication. I remember thinking at that game against Fife that the club was dying on its feet. You would struggle to find a Devils fan who has a positive view of these years. Some of the decisions were plain bizarre, I remember Thomas Kurka, a decent but not exceptional player, being offered 'the biggest contract in the Devils' history', whilst at the same time there were players apparently using sticks that were clearly not up to the job. It seemed a very strange way of running a sports club.

Finally (and I know others have vehemently disagreed in the last few days) the thing which springs to mind is the interaction with the supporter base. Whenever I have asked anyone within the current Devils management and ownership anything in the last decade, i have always got, not just a response but a well thought out answer. I might not always like the answer but I have always respected the answer as there was clearly both insight and sporting intelligence behind the answer. If anyone wants to buy me a pint I can contrast this with some of the points made under previous ownerships :)

Not sure if that answers your questions at all @Gisland and I am dancing around some issues but for me the summary is that we went from the lowest point in our history to the highest when our current owners took over.
Great Summary. I have been eagerly awaiting Wally getting Faulks in the shed because if Rumours/Talk from the time and since are to be believed, he was almost singlehandedly keeping the team together in exceptionally difficult times.

The Ragan debacle [era is giving too much credit] always makes me chuckle, because great public speakers (Franny for example) who are honest in all forums of media, scoot round that time whenever it comes up. It's almost the same as 'Don't mention the War' from Faulty Towers.

My only two points are:

The only benefit of his ownership was that the crowds were so poor [and he was such a marketing genius] that as a skint student, I could go to a midweek game against Hull or Dundee for silly cheap via Groupon;

In my opinion, what should have been the beginning of the end (in his first season as owner) was buying an on the verge of insolvency steelers (note the lack of caps), fronting their bonkers (allegedly) wage bill and then prancing around on their ice with the friggin league trophy as if it was all because of him.
 

kingmo19.1

Well-Known Member
Running a business/organisation is difficult and nobody gets every decision right, that’s pretty much understood. However, let’s not forget, as paying fans, without us there is no club. We have a right to voice an opinion. It’s only that, an opinion. Yes, the owners have been great, but please let’s no live in a world of continual praise, subservience and fear! They get it right - they are rightly praised, get it wrong and they are likely to be criticised! I’m sure they understand that and (as grown up adult businessmen) would probably prefer it that way!
 

lloyd_jeff

Well-Known Member
Ok some things could have been handled more diplomatically but it is surely just plain ignorant to piss off owners and management. They are what it says on the tin - owners and management. No place for a minority of selective fans to be arrogant and entitled.
You risk having a more clever Paul, they’re obviously running their business their way and are fully entitled too. We are customers and are fully entitled to voice an opinion of a product or products, whether that be directly to the owners or not. If we don’t buy the product there is no business. It’s a two way relationship, both require each other, I’m willing to bet more people attend from word of mouth of other fans than by media PR.
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
I was one of those outside the WNIR. Our reason for being there was a bit different.
Our current owners are the best we have ever had - let’s keep it that way.
They absolutely may be the best owners we've ever had. That doesn’t mean we can’t have a say over the way things are done and express negative opinion when we think things could have been handled better. You might as well live in North Korea otherwise! Maybe, just maybe, they’ll think twice about such things next time and consider the fans opinion a little more. That’s not a lot to ask really.
 

august04 2.0

Well-Known Member
well if you think saying on a public forum that brian parker is talking total bollocks is civil and respectfull then we'll have to agree to disagree.i certainly wouldn't like it if someone was talking about me on a public forum.in my opinion its uncalled for and not putting your argument across in a respectful way.
Who said they think that saying that was civil and respectful?
 
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