Thursday's vote and ice hockey implications

[Electro]

The problem with the leave campaign most seem to have missed, is the fact the govt in power where on the side of remain, therefore leave campaign could not promise anything.

The next Prime Minister will need to be a leave supporter, otherwise, it's possible a remain supporter could in 3 months become Prime Minister and suggest the best interest for the UK is to remain in the EU.

The referendum is not legally binding, until article 50 is endorsed the result of the referendum can be ignored. This move by Cameron could be an attempt to delay, in the hope that the economy could show signs of going into melt down, to force opinion change, forcing the leave campaign to admit they got it wrong.

People are already admitting their vote would have been different had the current situation been realised.

 

[WD59]

Many would see it as wrong, but I'd quite happily have the politicians refuse to leave the EU.

The argument could easily be that we've not left yet and we've already seen it have horrible effects on the UK. It's put the unity, stability and security all at risk.

 

[Ocko]

Many would see it as wrong, but I'd quite happily have the politicians refuse to leave the EU.

The argument could easily be that we've not left yet and we've already seen it have horrible effects on the UK. It's put the unity, stability and security all at risk.

How would you feel if we had voted to remain but the politicians decided to leave anyway? I'm sure you wouldn't agree with that.

The democratic process has spoken, and that has to be respected. We don't live in a dictatorship or communist country. We haven't really seen any horrible effects yet, an expected drop in the pound because it was inflated deliberately just before the vote to mitigate. What happens in the future we don't know, but it is just as unpredictable as remaining; the EU is in it's most precarious state it's ever been in with more changes and decisions to come. If we stayed in those calling for exits would be the same as those who are angry about not remaining. It suits some people and not others. It's quite annoying that people think because they're shouting the loudest their point is more valid.

 

[WD59]

Okay.

We've had calls for Scotland to leave the UK, NI join Ireland and now Plaid Cymru has changed their position to wanting to leave the UK. I really hope people aren't stupid enough to want that here.

 

[WD59]

This is horrible. The UK could easily end.

 

[Ocko]

You said it; calls. Nothing more. Emotion is/was high a lot has been said that will never materialise.

Scotland will probably hold a referendum but just because they wanted to remain in the EU doesn't mean they would chose it over the EU. Plaid Cymru can chase their stance all they want; they'll never be taken seriously enough to have any weight at all to take Wales forward alone.

Half of the things that have been talked about will never happen. It's just everyone being dramatic.

 

[WD59]

True. Even if Wales did get a vote on such a thing, the people would be insane to actually leave. Think I read Manchester generates more money than the entirety of Wales.

Just hope it calms down soon.

 

[jayemm]

I

This was all sorted months if not years ago. You don't risk the stability of the 5th largest economy to a referendum. One man does not have such power, not the Prime Minister or the President.

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The EU has been pressing the remain camp because of instability within the European Union and their plans and little to do with the UK's demise. In fact many European economics that don't hold an agenda have supported the UK to leave. The EU now has to change, they didn't want it, hence the doom scenario, which is basically a smoke screen.

Following the fall on world wide stock markets, factually, the UK is now the 6th largest economy, (Down 1 place). If Europe's economy was concatenated we'd be 7th.

The pound is at a 40 year low. Inflation from monetary outcomes, not consumer spending. Economic outcome: recession and unemployment according to Keynesian theory.

Stock market trading suspended on Barclays and RBS (RBS being owned by the Government).

European stock markets have fallen even further wiping billions off THEIR companies; I'm sure that what the wanted!

We've done it, we'll survive it, but let's not delude ourselves. We must be the first successful nation on Earth to have ever voted to create political and economic chaos.

 

[Electro]

Markets drop everytime there is a change of leadership. If you believe it's bad now, wait if Trump takes power.

My comment 5th largest economy was pre referendum. The small amount it's dropped is not unachievable to return to within a small amount of time.

What is more worrying is the recent increase in racially abusive comments to people. I would imagine made by people who get pissed up and cause trouble on the Costa's every year. It's particularly distasteful when the UK has had immigrants working here for hundreds of years. Our education system has failed to teach modern history. We sent men to fight for Europe, we seem to have forgotten our European roots.

I'm more concerned about xenophobia, my OH is European, has an accent, we've instructed our children today not to speak their first language in public, for fear of idiots.

I was proud to be Welsh and British but l can honestly say the UK handed an important vote, for our future, to people who frankly have the IQ of monkies.

 

[WD59]

And the percussions will probably be swift.

Despite what people think, the result isn't actually legally binding, so there's that.

There's this too: https://youtu.be/i9cLwoTkWes

 

[WD59]

Just an update.

Whatever deal we reach with the EU will have free movement of people and charges for using the single market. So, basically, those who voted Leave were lied too and it's now put us in a much difficulty place.

 

[Electro]

Again. The leave campaign had no authority to promise anything. The only certainty was the remain camp. You cannot dictate the terms before the start of any negotiations. The leave campaign was based on possibilities only. That was pretty much obvious.

 

[WD59]

Leave were screaming it in their own project fear enough times and when quite literally everything they said is now proven to be a lie, they should be held accountable. Also, I'm hearing that Mark Reckless is now chairing a climate change committee in Wales. Mark Reckless...of UKIP. UKIP doesn't believe humans are responsible for climate change.

The UK has completely lost the plot and we're seeing the rise of a disgusting right wing attitude.

 

[pjj365]

Since when did this become a political forum.

There are plenty of outlets for continuing the debate if that's what you want to do

On the specific topic it looks like a couple of years before we will have whatever the definitive answer is becoming clear and being implimented although exchange rate issues will no doubt be monitored by the clubs

 

[Electro]

The UK situation has implications for Ice Hockey and it's clearly written on the title of the thread. It's also up to site administration to decide.

If it does mean the UK has no agreements with the EU that impacts on both the financials of all UK clubs and player movements.

As for the out campaign, nobody promised anything. There was no agreement in principle made with anybody.

As for immigration the UK has an agreement with France to allow UK border staff in France. The agreement is solely between France and the UK, it's nothing to do EU immigration rules. The outcome of the vote has no implications to this agreement, the French president stated this clearly pre and post referendum.

Nobody lied, the remain campaign where clear on the consequences, some of the media used the term scaremongering, depending on loyalty to political powers, the chosen source can have huge influence on the people. We live in a society that has been conditioned to not question facts from any source, without questioning that source.

The current situation has shown this remarkable situation. Post vote people are actually questioning there decision, pre vote it's scaremongering and post vote it's realised as factually correct.

The US president stated pre and post vote that the UK would be at the back of the queue in any trade deals, the EU stated there cannot be any agreement until Article 50 is endorsed and any deal would have to be mutually acceptable to all EU members.

I actually had an argument with my family, their voting out because of immigration. They actually don't count my immigrant OH as an immigrant. But trying to explain Xenophobic people tend to poses lower IQ's, below the average level. Therefore to them a person speaking a foreign language in public is automatically a foreigner and that is bad, someone told them that, so it's true.

There where no promises, simply skilled PR, the ability to manipulate a statement of intent without it actually stating it as a fact.

 

[Devil_Abroad]

It is far easier to knock something down even though you have nothing with which to replace it other than misleading rhetoric than it is to get people to agree with something that in many ways needs reforming. I don't like some things in the EU and I'm sure millions through out Europe feel the same. However, having fought for rebates, not entering the Euro, enjoying many other opt outs, our position within the EU was far better than many other European nations find themselves in. And we threw it all down the pan for.......yup, lower value pound and a need to spend months re-negotiating everything which will probably end with us having to agree to more than we had before. We were shouted at when arguing these points. We were vilified. Indeed, we still are vilified now. It is ironic that the far right establishment has managed to hoodwink the far left and working class into believing things would be far different under the control of Parliament. Strange that it was Parliament itself (and much under Thatcher) that won all the benefits we have now thrown away.

I wish it was unlawful for politicians to mislead the country and evade the questions that open up their lies - but then the laws are made by such people so.......

The biggest irony of all? The 'we want Britain back to be Great again' brigade have finally split the Union. What will the new country be called - can't be Untied Kingdom as that was the Union with the Scots - so England perhaps?


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[pjj365]

The UK situation has implications for Ice Hockey and it's clearly written on the title of the thread. It's also up to site administration to decide.

If it does mean the UK has no agreements with the EU that impacts on both the financials of all UK clubs and player movements.

As for the out campaign, nobody promised anything. There was no agreement in principle made with anybody.

As for immigration the UK has an agreement with France to allow UK border staff in France. The agreement is solely between France and the UK, it's nothing to do EU immigration rules. The outcome of the vote has no implications to this agreement, the French president stated this clearly pre and post referendum.

Nobody lied, the remain campaign where clear on the consequences, some of the media used the term scaremongering, depending on loyalty to political powers, the chosen source can have huge influence on the people. We live in a society that has been conditioned to not question facts from any source, without questioning that source.

The current situation has shown this remarkable situation. Post vote people are actually questioning there decision, pre vote it's scaremongering and post vote it's realised as factually correct.

The US president stated pre and post vote that the UK would be at the back of the queue in any trade deals, the EU stated there cannot be any agreement until Article 50 is endorsed and any deal would have to be mutually acceptable to all EU members.

I actually had an argument with my family, their voting out because of immigration. They actually don't count my immigrant OH as an immigrant. But trying to explain Xenophobic people tend to poses lower IQ's, below the average level. Therefore to them a person speaking a foreign language in public is automatically a foreigner and that is bad, someone told them that, so it's true.

There where no promises, simply skilled PR, the ability to manipulate a statement of intent without it actually stating it as a fact.

I agree entirely with you first two statements but then you drift into sort of reliving the campaign which I do not feel belongs here

Still ageeing with you partially is a step forward I guess - I stand the risk of being ostracised from here!

 

[Electro]

It's a huge complicated issue that will have implications across ice hockey as a sport and as a business.

We are in the early stages, the realisation stage before the actual implications are fully understood followed by there implementation. So this topic is yet to fully develop and hence the current content.

We could touch on for example what future development the EIHL had regards to European leagues, deals etc and what if any are affected going forward outside of the EU. I believe it's no coincidence the Devils have attracted those teams for pre season.

Until the dust settles and some information comes forward with any "issues" its likely to be irrelevant at present.

Discussing the relevance of the current comments though is not constructive, but ironic, it's up to the administration to implement and change.

 

[WD59]

To be honest, this effects everything so it really should be talked about. I'm sure whatever deal we get, it'll be okay with the EU. The rest of the world have also stepped up and said they're open for business. USA, Canada, India, NZ, Aus, Iceland etc have all said they'd work with us. Heck, NZ have offered us expertise for trade deals too.

 

[WD59]

There was a rally today of 400 people in the city. Apparently they wanted independence for Wales.

Grim times indeed.