Season Ticket Sales
- Thread starter Finny
- Start date
Having IP assigned to you and being the rightful and legal owner is not the same thing. These things are challenged all the time. One of the ridiculous quirks of the IPO in the UK is that once they are assigned to someone, it is up to the (if there is one) correct owner to prove they own them, not the assignee to do so. Bonkers.
Just as it was previously in our own history when Bob Phillips assigned them to himself from Celtic Leisure Cymru, allowing him to later (via Chris McSorley) shaft then-owner Paul McMillan. Bob did the same with the Steelers IP prior to selling them to PR, though this was caught and prevented, meaning that Tony Smith did not then become the Steelers' equivalent of Paul Mac in his purchase later on.
Paul also acquired the Devils IP during the RinkCorp liquidation (similarly to how BP did with CLC), showing that the same loophole had not been closed. Though there are those that will tell you that Rinkcorp never owned them either.
Our history shows that there is no reason to believe Paul Ragan is the rightful owner of the Devils IP based on that website alone.
I would say it's far less open and shut than what is listed there.
What would worry me, if I were PR, is what my legal footing would be for selling Season Tickets for thousands of pounds for 'The Cardiff Devils' matches if it is subsequently proven that I were not, in fact, 'The Cardiff Devils'. That would be a sticky theoretical wicket.
Just as it was previously in our own history when Bob Phillips assigned them to himself from Celtic Leisure Cymru, allowing him to later (via Chris McSorley) shaft then-owner Paul McMillan. Bob did the same with the Steelers IP prior to selling them to PR, though this was caught and prevented, meaning that Tony Smith did not then become the Steelers' equivalent of Paul Mac in his purchase later on.
Paul also acquired the Devils IP during the RinkCorp liquidation (similarly to how BP did with CLC), showing that the same loophole had not been closed. Though there are those that will tell you that Rinkcorp never owned them either.
Our history shows that there is no reason to believe Paul Ragan is the rightful owner of the Devils IP based on that website alone.
I would say it's far less open and shut than what is listed there.
What would worry me, if I were PR, is what my legal footing would be for selling Season Tickets for thousands of pounds for 'The Cardiff Devils' matches if it is subsequently proven that I were not, in fact, 'The Cardiff Devils'. That would be a sticky theoretical wicket.
Sorry I'm on page 7 at moment reading through and I want to add my thoughts to the sentiment concerning questioning the club off ice and why we should not question where our money goes.
Well before I part with money for a product, goods or service I tend to research it, if I make an investment I want to know the risk before deciding if I want to make a punt at it, can I afford the loss etc etc.
When I buy a new car I test drive it, ask for specs, general questions as to functionability to be able to assess is it right for me.
Logical, no.
I guess the reason the UK has Watchdog, consumer rights advice etc etc in abundance, it simply must be because the UK is full of people who cannot question or accurately assess there needs before parting with their hard earned cash. Much to trusting.
I've only experienced it in the UK, abroad most people are more aware of the dangers naivety brings. They rarely get all gobby afterwards, see, that is to admit your an idiot and you got done over proper shafted
If you want to pay £500+ in the hope you will see your product to an organisation proven to not tell the truth, good luck, enjoy the ride and Watchdog is on BBC1.ickle
Well before I part with money for a product, goods or service I tend to research it, if I make an investment I want to know the risk before deciding if I want to make a punt at it, can I afford the loss etc etc.
When I buy a new car I test drive it, ask for specs, general questions as to functionability to be able to assess is it right for me.
Logical, no.
I guess the reason the UK has Watchdog, consumer rights advice etc etc in abundance, it simply must be because the UK is full of people who cannot question or accurately assess there needs before parting with their hard earned cash. Much to trusting.
I've only experienced it in the UK, abroad most people are more aware of the dangers naivety brings. They rarely get all gobby afterwards, see, that is to admit your an idiot and you got done over proper shafted
If you want to pay £500+ in the hope you will see your product to an organisation proven to not tell the truth, good luck, enjoy the ride and Watchdog is on BBC1.
ickleThanks for the vote of confidence Chillee
You can take comfort in the fact that, following the Planet Ice Arena proposals, which came to nought, the Council undertook considerable due diligence on Greenbank's financial situation prior to awarding the CISV development contract to them. Also, the fact tht they have found £17m to build the new IAW may speak positively as regards to their credentials?
You can take comfort in the fact that, following the Planet Ice Arena proposals, which came to nought, the Council undertook considerable due diligence on Greenbank's financial situation prior to awarding the CISV development contract to them. Also, the fact tht they have found £17m to build the new IAW may speak positively as regards to their credentials?
Were you googling the right company chilee?
As pooneil just said Id be pretty sure that a company building, managing and financing such a huge project would be able to financially manage something as small as the Cardiff Devils. And let's be honest nothing can be worse than all the other owners who have taken us to going bust.
The arena running the team would always be the ideal situation for any team in the UK.
As pooneil just said Id be pretty sure that a company building, managing and financing such a huge project would be able to financially manage something as small as the Cardiff Devils. And let's be honest nothing can be worse than all the other owners who have taken us to going bust.
The arena running the team would always be the ideal situation for any team in the UK.
Taking what Nic Gough has said about his attempts to run a 'new' Hull team, it sounds like the franchises still exist, although the bigger issue there seems to be that the ice time deal will be made with the person who has the franchise, which I guess might be Hull councils way of doing things...
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Nic-Goug ... story.html
http://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/Nic-Goug ... story.html
It seems the EIHL do not sell a franchise but the club pay an entry fee that then sees them become a member of the league with the owner taking a voting position within the board of directors. As long as they do not default on paying that membership fee when it is due then there isn't legal grounds to then remove a club from an organisation they have a financial stake in. In effect it is an operating franchise. The saleable asset I would assume is the rights to that membership and the directorship on the board. I queried this with Simmsey and he said a team could not just be removed so it would appear a new owner will have to negotiate with Paul on some level. The name, logos and trademarks seems another point of contention.
Don't get me wrong as a Family Trust business raising investment for regeneration projects such as the Cardiff Bay development you have a good record.
I don't believe a business showing the figures currently available at Companies House shows Green Bank as being in a financial position to take on and run the Cardiff Devils unless you have access to investors showing an interest in it.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.ickle
I don't believe a business showing the figures currently available at Companies House shows Green Bank as being in a financial position to take on and run the Cardiff Devils unless you have access to investors showing an interest in it.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
ickle
chillee said:
Don't get me wrong as a Family Trust business raising investment for regeneration projects such as the Cardiff Bay development you have a good record.
I don't believe a business showing the figures currently available at Companies House shows Green Bank as being in a financial position to take on and run the Cardiff Devils unless you have access to investors showing an interest in it.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.ickle
I don't believe a business showing the figures currently available at Companies House shows Green Bank as being in a financial position to take on and run the Cardiff Devils unless you have access to investors showing an interest in it.
Correct me if I'm wrong though.
ickle
What would you like to discuss, the weather, the paint colour of the new rink, please add something, constantly jumping into a thread quoting & moaning about the discussion's others are having is not something that adds to the quality and its also something people wouldn't tend to do in a face to face discussion.
I have no other interest here beyond the topic's I'm writing on, I am not an armchair hockey expert. :lol:
I have no other interest here beyond the topic's I'm writing on, I am not an armchair hockey expert. :lol:
I believe I stated they can be found at Companies House, go take a look.
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk
http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk