Re: Re: Rumour??
It depends on how much money each owner is willing to put in. "Rumor" is Tony has lost more money this year than Ragan - but Ragan is loosing this money on top of last year's cash injections.
Personally I'd rather everyone admit that the current EIHL isn't sustainable and make changes. 6 or 8 imports max...
If Ragan can turn it around (and piece by piece mistakes are being reversed) then he may have some return next year. I don't think any rink team can hope to compete and make money in the current EIHL setup. But entertain and break even would do me.
It depends on how much money each owner is willing to put in. "Rumor" is Tony has lost more money this year than Ragan - but Ragan is loosing this money on top of last year's cash injections.
Personally I'd rather everyone admit that the current EIHL isn't sustainable and make changes. 6 or 8 imports max...
If Ragan can turn it around (and piece by piece mistakes are being reversed) then he may have some return next year. I don't think any rink team can hope to compete and make money in the current EIHL setup. But entertain and break even would do me.
On the one hand, you have the "rink" teams that would probably prefer a BNL-esque 6-8 import league. This would be more sustainable for them.
On the other hand, you have the likes of Belfast, Nottingham and Sheffield who pay expensive rent for their arena's. If they felt the level of hockey would be less exciting for their fans and their crowds would suffer, they would be against it. They need the crowds they get to cover the rent for their arenas.
I still think a regionalised set-up would be better longer-term.
On the other hand, you have the likes of Belfast, Nottingham and Sheffield who pay expensive rent for their arena's. If they felt the level of hockey would be less exciting for their fans and their crowds would suffer, they would be against it. They need the crowds they get to cover the rent for their arenas.
I still think a regionalised set-up would be better longer-term.
Something I have not seen posted is that, whilst the Panthers pretty much rule the roost in the EIHL politically and are easily the strongest business and business model, they are in one way in the most precarious position of all.
The EIHL sits on the precipice. Does every season. If a sizeable number / all the rink teams went bang, the EIHL product would die just like the ISL before it. Nottingham would then be really screwed as their fans simply would not watch EPL and they could not sustain it in the NIC based on cost.
If the EIHL folded, I believe there would be more chance of losing the Panthers totally than any other franchise in the League. That alone would keep me fighting for the EIHL to stay if I were Neil Black or GM the GM.
The EIHL sits on the precipice. Does every season. If a sizeable number / all the rink teams went bang, the EIHL product would die just like the ISL before it. Nottingham would then be really screwed as their fans simply would not watch EPL and they could not sustain it in the NIC based on cost.
If the EIHL folded, I believe there would be more chance of losing the Panthers totally than any other franchise in the League. That alone would keep me fighting for the EIHL to stay if I were Neil Black or GM the GM.
If the Devils and Coventry do drop to the EPL then Ragan will have been proved right in that he said a wage cap had to be introduced.It's no good the richer clubs acting selfish here, they will cut their own throats.We basically all have to agree to a wage cap and stick to it.That way when the season starts everyone has a fair chance of winning something.Competitive Hockey= bigger crowds.That way you will attract investment if owners can actually make a few quid instead of throwing money down the drain on a pipe dream.Cutting imports wont work,the richer teams will just have better ones and we are back to where we are now,in a mess.
I don't actually mind the bigger teams getting better imports. Strange I know. But 8 better imports would have to play along side 12 Brits. 12 Brits who benefit from playing next to real quality. Ala Weller.
Anyway - the bigger teams would hoover up the better Brits. But that then leaves a vacuum for the hungry guys, keen to prove themselves.
More Brits, getting more ice time - improves British players and makes the game more sustainable. Over a number of years the market would stablise and the hockey would be more competitive - and more British.
I've said many time, I care less about winning and more about being entertained.
Besides, we haven't been doing that had with 8 imports.
Anyway - the bigger teams would hoover up the better Brits. But that then leaves a vacuum for the hungry guys, keen to prove themselves.
More Brits, getting more ice time - improves British players and makes the game more sustainable. Over a number of years the market would stablise and the hockey would be more competitive - and more British.
I've said many time, I care less about winning and more about being entertained.
Besides, we haven't been doing that had with 8 imports.
Whilst a move to EPL would bring benefits to a club, the drawbacks are just as many.
Some of the benefits would include:
1. Less travelling time/distance/costs for away matches for the team.
2. Possibly bigger travelling fan base - closer fixtures/reduced travelling costs.
3. A fanbase that would be open to EPL hockey - think most Devils fans would prefer a hockey fix, rather than NO hockey fix.
4. The introduction of more British players to the roster.
5. An opportunity to bring sustainability to the Club - look at the progress of Manchester and Basingstoke since their move to EPL.
6. The possibility of fairer competition in the league regarding player quality/affordability.
Some of the drawbacks:
1. The probable loss of a majority of our British Elite League level players to other EIHL clubs - new team would need to be rebuilt and developed.
2. The weakening/unsustainability of hockey at EIHL level due to one or more clubs moving out to another league (and therefore reducing chances to rejoin if doubts about it's future).
3. More ice-time for developing British players but what about the quality of their development because of reduced import levels ?
4. 'Farm team' scenario where the best players move on to the higher league - impact on continuous consistency if roster keeps changing.
Some of the benefits would include:
1. Less travelling time/distance/costs for away matches for the team.
2. Possibly bigger travelling fan base - closer fixtures/reduced travelling costs.
3. A fanbase that would be open to EPL hockey - think most Devils fans would prefer a hockey fix, rather than NO hockey fix.
4. The introduction of more British players to the roster.
5. An opportunity to bring sustainability to the Club - look at the progress of Manchester and Basingstoke since their move to EPL.
6. The possibility of fairer competition in the league regarding player quality/affordability.
Some of the drawbacks:
1. The probable loss of a majority of our British Elite League level players to other EIHL clubs - new team would need to be rebuilt and developed.
2. The weakening/unsustainability of hockey at EIHL level due to one or more clubs moving out to another league (and therefore reducing chances to rejoin if doubts about it's future).
3. More ice-time for developing British players but what about the quality of their development because of reduced import levels ?
4. 'Farm team' scenario where the best players move on to the higher league - impact on continuous consistency if roster keeps changing.
Just wanted to add on to what you have said. Firstly I would expect much smaller travelling support, generally no one will bring as many fans as coventry, nottingham and sheffield do. Secondly dropping to the EPL doesn't just make a team sustainable and Manchester are still losing money every year (although not as much as in the EIHL) and I was told their crowds have gone down yet they still charge elite league prices at £13/14 a ticket, I can't comment on Basingstoke as I don't know their situation but they have gone from a bottom table EIHL team to a mid-table EPL team and their crowds haven't got any better despite them charging less. It is also interesting to note that more teams have dropped out of the EPL for financial reasons then they have in the EIHL. There are undoubtedly advantages to joining the EPL but I think the main reason why it is not the right move is due to the lack of physicalness in the league and if people think the Devils are not doing enough hitting now then you won't be able to bare watching the EPL and I think this reason has led to fans from both Manchester and Basingstoke saying they miss the EIHL. Also I highly doubt that Coventry would join the EPL, they are one of the key players in the EIHL and I think their commitment to the league was shown by the taking over of Hull to make sure there was another team in the league
I'm not sure EPL is the way to go either.
There are rumours though that there could be big changes in the EIHL this summer. A proper wagecap would be a must.
Though there are also whisperings that alternative plans are being discussed in case certain teams refuse to agree.
6-8 imports, much lower wagecap than we have had in recent years. No Nottm, Braehead or Belfast, but possible interest from some of the EPL teams.
My guess would be Coventry hold the key to next season. They have always been the example of a non-arena team being succesful in the EIHL. This year they seem to be struggling financially though and aren't getting the crowds either.
We are in tough financial times and I can't see it getting any better for several years. £16 is a lot for non-season ticket holders.
Is it possible for us to come up with a standard of hockey where ticket prices are a more attractive £10?
Though even the EPL has ticket prices higher than that!
There are rumours though that there could be big changes in the EIHL this summer. A proper wagecap would be a must.
Though there are also whisperings that alternative plans are being discussed in case certain teams refuse to agree.
6-8 imports, much lower wagecap than we have had in recent years. No Nottm, Braehead or Belfast, but possible interest from some of the EPL teams.
My guess would be Coventry hold the key to next season. They have always been the example of a non-arena team being succesful in the EIHL. This year they seem to be struggling financially though and aren't getting the crowds either.
We are in tough financial times and I can't see it getting any better for several years. £16 is a lot for non-season ticket holders.
Is it possible for us to come up with a standard of hockey where ticket prices are a more attractive £10?
Though even the EPL has ticket prices higher than that!
We're having a similar discussion on the Flyers forum. Despite the arena teams probably being against it, a reduction to 8 imports is probably something that will initially lead to a reduction in spending. Sure, the "big" teams will up all the best Brits for now but over time, surely more and more Brits will come through because of the increased opportunities?
Re: Re: Rumour??
That's my thoughts.
Cardiff have spent half the last month with 8 imports - don't think the quality has suffered.
Brit quality is all important. It isn't like there are young guys in the EPL and ENL looking for a shot.
The quality will be largely be dictated by the imports you sign - you can no longer sign grinders, they will need to be top quality guys that'll improve the Brits around them. Sure, there may be a gold rush initially - but there will be guys who can step into the spots.
Look at Sam, Ben, Piggot, Harding, Batch - young and unproven but with talent in spades. At 8 imports you'd be forced to take a few more risks, and brings these guys on. It's only another 20 guys to find after all.
I'd doubt the overall quality would drop too. Tonight we played with 8 imports - and took the best in the league to the wire.
That's my thoughts.
Cardiff have spent half the last month with 8 imports - don't think the quality has suffered.
Brit quality is all important. It isn't like there are young guys in the EPL and ENL looking for a shot.
The quality will be largely be dictated by the imports you sign - you can no longer sign grinders, they will need to be top quality guys that'll improve the Brits around them. Sure, there may be a gold rush initially - but there will be guys who can step into the spots.
Look at Sam, Ben, Piggot, Harding, Batch - young and unproven but with talent in spades. At 8 imports you'd be forced to take a few more risks, and brings these guys on. It's only another 20 guys to find after all.
I'd doubt the overall quality would drop too. Tonight we played with 8 imports - and took the best in the league to the wire.
I'm sure Mr Muir is watching this situation closely. As someone that isn't a fan of high import number hockey, he would I imagine prefer the limit to be 8 imports, ala the BNL. I did say months ago on the Flyers forum that if Mr Muir wanted to influence change, he would have better success being part of the crowd than not.
Now we're in the league, he will be, I imagine, keen to be involved in any discussions of reform. Although him and Neil Black don't like each other so I'm led to believe.
Now we're in the league, he will be, I imagine, keen to be involved in any discussions of reform. Although him and Neil Black don't like each other so I'm led to believe.