Outcoached ?

[fried egg]

I've just been looking at the stats on the Devils website.I see Martin is top of the scoring charts, Bown's top of the goaltending charts, Richardson top British scorer,second best powerplay in the league and top of the penalty killing charts. Add to that top of the league too. So Lord needs to improve his powerplay slightly. Can the people who claim we are/were being outcoached give it a rest. In Lord we have a fine young coach we also holds his own on the ice ,I'd not want him at any of our rivals anytime soon.

 

[Ocko]

Saying we were 'out coached' is usually just a get out for people to explain a loss who don't have a clue to the real reasons why. Lord is an easy target, as was G in his tenure. No one else I'd rather see in the job than Lordo.

 

[Samael]

The owners have faith in him and they know more about hockey than anyone on this forum I'm sure. However, stats mean bugger all where coaching is concerned. Let's see how full the trophy cabinet is in April, that will be the best way to measure Lordo as a coach and how much he has developed over the past 3 years.

 

[Samael]

and he really does need to stop saying "phenomenal" during his Ice time tv interviews, just like the interviewers need to stop saying "in terms of" too.

 

[bdevil]

Completely disagree. Stats mat prove irrelevant at the end of the year if we lead the statistics but end up with no trophies but to say they mean nothing is incorrect.

If we were 9th in the league on PK and 10th on PP, had the "statistically" the worst net minder and no-one in the top 10 of points scoring would we be top on the league?

Stats may not determine who wins the league but they are a good indicator, the league winners will be one of two or three teams with the best stats for PP, PK, net minding and points scoring.

 

[Samael]

We had the top scorer in the league last year and also the goalie with the best record. The only thing we won was the conference, so tell me again how stats are an indicator of good coaching? I notice the Panthers fans are all moaning about Corey Neilson right now, but you can't argue with his record as a coach with regards to what they have won in his time coaching, and he's done that without the luxury of supportive ownership that wants to invest and isnt just in it for the money. Don't get me wrong I think Lord is a great guy and bleeds Devils and I'm glad he's here but he's still learning as a coach. He's got the time to be successful and I'm sure he will be just like Lawless and Heavey were.

 

[Electro]

That's an interesting take on the role of the coach and the influence he has on an individuals performance.

As has been stated it's the contents of the cabinet and the end result that matters that will ultimately determine how the coach utilised the talent within the team that was assembled. It's a long season, which team wins will be determined by several factors, having stars is not the only consideration.

An amazing fillet steak, hand reared by God himself, can be ruined by a shit chef.


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[bdevil]

All I'm saying is it takes a good coach to produce good stats. It was said in Samael's first post that "stats mean bugger all" which I disagree with.
I did say that they don't determine who wins the league but they go a long way to telling you if you were close or not.
Example:
Coach A has come runner up in the previous 5 years with excellent PP, PK, goals for and goals against stats.
Coach B has won the league once and finished below 3rd for the other 4 seasons.

Whose PP, PK, goals for and goals against stats do you think would be worse and who would you rather have as coach of your team?

 

[ASHIPP]

This is a discussion we would be having if the team was on a losing streak...why are we having it now?

The TEAM stats (pp, pk percentages) are a good indicator of the competence of a team and its coaching. And that means the ability of the team to stay fit and interpret /execute systems in all situations, in addition to the leadership qualities and tactical ability of the coach.

As for winning anything, who knows? We all know nothing is guaranteed whether your team is in 1st or 10th position right now. Long way to go this season but the Devils are in a great place in the League at the mo. Let's enjoy it.

 

[Electro]

We are having it l guess because its interesting, has zero effect on the teams performance and basically because we can.

Why assume people who are writing within this topic are not enjoying the current situation.

I am, long may we continue and others fail. But let's still stay grounded and realistic, we haven't secured anything at this point.




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[voth26]

We had the top scorer in the league last year and also the goalie with the best record. The only thing we won was the conference, so tell me again how stats are an indicator of good coaching? I notice the Panthers fans are all moaning about Corey Neilson right now, but you can't argue with his record as a coach with regards to what they have won in his time coaching, and he's done that without the luxury of supportive ownership that wants to invest and isnt just in it for the money. Don't get me wrong I think Lord is a great guy and bleeds Devils and I'm glad he's here but he's still learning as a coach. He's got the time to be successful and I'm sure he will be just like Lawless and Heavey were.

Neilson has also had the luxury of being a FULL TIME bench coach with Strachan as a full time assistant, Lord hasn't!!. Is Lord still learning yes he is, will he make mistakes in the future yes he will but he will also learn from the mistakes, Lord is an honest guy and in my opinion to honest sometimes when he gives his interviews. On the other hand look at Neilson no personality, no emotion when speaking, seemingly he's unapproachable by his own fans!!.

 

[Ivydrive]

When you have a team packed with as much quality as we have, its not too difficult to have guys featuring in various top 10's. It's also possible to be a good coach in certain areas but lacking in others. We can have great special teams for example but full strength is where we were struggling.
I stand by my comments from a few weeks back re: coaching being our issue. We have been out coached on many occasions over the past couple seasons.
Having said that, since there was a lot of criticism a few weeks ago, Lord has appeared to tweak the style of hockey being played for the better. There are still improvements that can be made (there always will be) but credit where credit is due - Lords performances have improved massively both on the ice and from a coaching stand point in recent games.

Correct me if i'm wrong but i've never called for Lord to be dropped. I have on a number occasions called for him to be offered coaching camps in the off season and an experienced assistant. Lord does still worry me a little as we seem to lack the ability to change a game when things aren't going our way. Luckily for us, with the quality on our team, that shouldn't happen too often this season.

 

[fridaysfingers]

Having said that, since there was a lot of criticism a few weeks ago, Lord has appeared to tweak the style of hockey being played for the better.

Are you actually saying that the style of play was altered because there was criticism on here?

 

[Electro]

How many teams this year are fielding decent teams, you have to also take that into account.


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[august04]

Having said that, since there was a lot of criticism a few weeks ago, Lord has appeared to tweak the style of hockey being played for the better.

Are you actually saying that the style of play was altered because there was criticism on here?

That "tweak"/alteration in the style of play followed the abysmal performance at home against Sheffield when the owners were in town. It's probably more likely that we've seen the performance improvement since then because of the input of the owners, Kelman and Lord after that game, rather than anything the fans post on here! The latter shouldn't be ignored though and to be fair, I don't think it is.

 

[KaneDevils]

Sometimes the best managers and coaches in world sport can be out coached and lose a game.
It can be an observation not so much a criticism and will happen most weekends in one sport or another.
To suggest thinking so means that person doesn't know what their on about is both naive and crass.
We are doing brilliantly as is our coach but nothing's been won yet.

 

[Sheincar]

For me the "tweak" came after our team saw the Voth video at his shirt retirement. It seemed as though a light went on. Coincidence? Maybe - or not!

 

[Electro]

Sometimes the best managers and coaches in world sport can be out coached and lose a game.
It can be an observation not so much a criticism and will happen most weekends in one sport or another.
To suggest thinking so means that person doesn't know what their on about is both naive and crass.
We are doing brilliantly as is our coach but nothing's been won yet.

In your statement you posted "the best managers and coaches in world sport can be out coached and lose a game". With all due respect to Lord, he is very far away from reaching that level and is never going too. I cannot speak for others but most comments I've read are looking at Lord from results spread over his coaching career.

Most I've read also don't call for a change of coach, more a change of expectations and time. I have no doubt Lord will be the coach of a winning team, will it be this yr, who knows, will it be down to coaching skills if it was this yr, I'm not so sure. At this point I'm 54% we won't.


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[Devil_Abroad]

In your statement you posted "the best managers and coaches in world sport can be out coached and lose a game". With all due respect to Lord, he is very far away from reaching that level and is never going too. I cannot speak for others but most comments I've read are looking at Lord from results spread over his coaching career.

Most I've read also don't call for a change of coach, more a change of expectations and time. I have no doubt Lord will be the coach of a winning team, will it be this yr, who knows, will it be down to coaching skills if it was this yr, I'm not so sure. At this point I'm 54% we won't.


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Really?! [emoji85]


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[E.D.S.]

they know more about hockey than anyone on this forum I'm sure.

Not sure about that bit but agree with your sentiment about waiting until the end of the season. I'm not a fan to be honest but I do really really like his honesty in his post game interviews. If that's his style in the dressing room you can imagine why he'd be a popular coach and players wanting to work for him. Seems like a great coach in the making. Will he be enough for us is yet to be determined. Can't help but like him as a personality. Coaching wise. Time will tell.