Official: 2020-2021 League suspended

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#23
The latest Furlough figures taken mid August show 4 million people still on Furlough.

The time is coming closer, a lot of countries will start accepting the Virus cannot be controlled, premature deaths will be inevitable as the economic consequences become a higher issue than people’s health. Particularly when those affected worse are groups of people who’ve ignored their own health wellbeing. Particularly smokers & obese. Ironically l passed a group of waitresses taking a smoking break and bemoaning those people choosing not to wear a mask indoors.

No Government can finance people’s lifestyles. We may return to normality for those less at risk, those at high risk, well maybe they’ll need to isolate until a cure is found.
It is not those who are susceptible (your example) who are the problem in the first instance. It is the spreaders and it does not appear to be age related - so don't pick on youngsters alone.
The strain on the health service may well be those who have preconditions (not all self inflicted BTW) but without spreaders that would not be a problem
 

Rempel16

Well-Known Member
#24
The latest Furlough figures taken mid August show 4 million people still on Furlough.

The time is coming closer, a lot of countries will start accepting the Virus cannot be controlled, premature deaths will be inevitable as the economic consequences become a higher issue than people’s health. Particularly when those affected worse are groups of people who’ve ignored their own health wellbeing. Particularly smokers & obese. Ironically l passed a group of waitresses taking a smoking break and bemoaning those people choosing not to wear a mask indoors.

No Government can finance people’s lifestyles. We may return to normality for those less at risk, those at high risk, well maybe they’ll need to isolate until a cure is found.
As a non-smoker: Even though some research shows that actually smokers aren't getting affected by Covid?
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#25
As a non-smoker: Even though some research shows that actually smokers aren't getting affected by Covid?
As a smoker I've seen research that suggest smoking give some element of immunity - I guess you see/read what you want to!

My understanding is that obesity, asthma, smoking, hypertension etc. etc. does not increase your risk of contracting/spreading the virus but makes a recovery more difficult. Conditions which require shielding are, I understand, a different issue

Hence my emphasis on spreaders which leads to the need for good track and trace.

If track and trace was 100% effective and speedy (!!!) AND people were sensible in self isolating then hockey could return (even for those with preconditions) but whether in sufficient numbers is debatable
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#26
As a smoker I've seen research that suggest smoking give some element of immunity - I guess you see/read what you want to!

My understanding is that obesity, asthma, smoking, hypertension etc. etc. does not increase your risk of contracting/spreading the virus but makes a recovery more difficult. Conditions which require shielding are, I understand, a different issue

Hence my emphasis on spreaders which leads to the need for good track and trace.

If track and trace was 100% effective and speedy (!!!) AND people were sensible in self isolating then hockey could return (even for those with preconditions) but whether in sufficient numbers is debatable
I think that you've got the nail on the head. The league is going to have a hell of a PR job on its hands persuading people that it's safe to return. This is why I think even a late season is likely to be unrealistic.
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#27
I think that you've got the nail on the head. The league is going to have a hell of a PR job on its hands persuading people that it's safe to return. This is why I think even a late season is likely to be unrealistic.
Sadly I don't think leauge PR on its own will help much when Gov't rules/guidance across the 4 nations differ and even within 1 Gov't seem to offer baffling/conflicting guidance. The league can only work within this infrastructure
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#28
Sadly I don't think leauge PR on its own will help much when Gov't rules/guidance across the 4 nations differ and even within 1 Gov't seem to offer baffling/conflicting guidance. The league can only work within this infrastructure
A fair point. Luckily, as a club, the devils has an excellent PR machine. Though, of course, there has to be substance behind the words.
 

Mazzoak

Active Member
#29
The need to control hospitalisation and death rate & not the actual spread of the virus is the driving factor behind lock downs, hence the slogan “Protect the NHS”. Hospital admissions & death rates are high in certain groups of people I’ve already mentioned. I’m a non smoker who realised smoking wasn’t a particularly clever hobby before the need to have health warnings on packets, so I’d object to being penalised for making sensible decisions. Since the virus causes irreversible lung damage it’s pretty obvious already damaged lungs from smoking or in the case of Asthmatics who’s airways contract under stress & exertion, would affect a person prognosis negatively. When a person is struggling to breath, the work load on the heart increases, so those with high blood pressure, damaged hearts, obesity etc will all have a negative prognosis. Age also places a part because just as any machines components wear with age, we too also. If you remove those people, then “the spreaders”, those healthy enough to fight the Virus with their bodies natural defence mechanism, over time will create a natural herd immunity.
The biggest fear for me yet undiscussed issue is Viruses as a whole & how we move forward. Currently concentrating on one strain of Corona Virus, the SARS-CoV-2 and the disease Covid 19 it creates. Corona Viruses exist all around us in everyday life, new versions continue to appear, what we’ll need to deal with is how do we move forward, do we treat this as a one in a hundred yr case, such as Spanish flu and return to normality once a vaccine is found or will this be the new norm, a mentality of prevention, some will no doubt continue to label/blame it as the Snowflake culture.

Can large groups of spectators ever return to watch indoor activities , such as Ice Hockey, Basketball etc etc or will these need to be televised only.
 
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august04

Well-Known Member
#31
Now because of the actions of a bunch of f***wits in the Rhondda we've got a local lockdown in RCT. While we've got idiots there's going to be no normality.
It makes my blood boil. Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea for a group trip to Doncaster races, stopping at several pubs on the way/back. You couldn’t make it up.
 

kingmo19.1

Well-Known Member
#32
It makes my blood boil. Who in their right mind thought it was a good idea for a group trip to Doncaster races, stopping at several pubs on the way/back. You couldn’t make it up.
Brain dead clowns. Going forward, the government needs to get tougher with the punishments for people who break the rules. Make the minimum fine £500. Also as winter approaches close the shops. pubs & restaurants at 9.30pm.
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#33
Brain dead clowns. Going forward, the government needs to get tougher with the punishments for people who break the rules. Make the minimum fine £500. Also as winter approaches close the shops. pubs & restaurants at 9.30pm.
It's become clear that many people have no common sense (just read some of the posts on Twitter in response to the RCT situation). The only possible response is for the authorities to act in a harsher manner.
 

KaneDevils

Well-Known Member
#34
If you can go to the supermarket, or any shop wearing a mask, would you not go to the rink and watch a game wearing one? I would. People go to pubs without a mask, some are still leaving the country, but we cant sit and watch a hockey game for a couple of hours? Theaters cant open, pubs can? It's a mad world.
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#35
The need to control hospitalisation and death rate & not the actual spread of the virus is the driving factor behind lock downs, hence the slogan “Protect the NHS”. Hospital admissions & death rates are high in certain groups of people I’ve already mentioned. I’m a non smoker who realised smoking wasn’t a particularly clever hobby before the need to have health warnings on packets, so I’d object to being penalised for making sensible decisions. Since the virus causes irreversible lung damage it’s pretty obvious already damaged lungs from smoking or in the case of Asthmatics who’s airways contract under stress & exertion, would affect a person prognosis negatively. When a person is struggling to breath, the work load on the heart increases, so those with high blood pressure, damaged hearts, obesity etc will all have a negative prognosis. Age also places a part because just as any machines components wear with age, we too also. If you remove those people, then “the spreaders”, those healthy enough to fight the Virus with their bodies natural defence mechanism, over time will create a natural herd immunity.
The biggest fear for me yet undiscussed issue is Viruses as a whole & how we move forward. Currently concentrating on one strain of Corona Virus, the SARS-CoV-2 and the disease Covid 19 it creates. Corona Viruses exist all around us in everyday life, new versions continue to appear, what we’ll need to deal with is how do we move forward, do we treat this as a one in a hundred yr case, such as Spanish flu and return to normality once a vaccine is found or will this be the new norm, a mentality of prevention, some will no doubt continue to label/blame it as the Snowflake culture.

Can large groups of spectators ever return to watch indoor activities , such as Ice Hockey, Basketball etc etc or will these need to be televised only.
You are of course quite right - those conditions you mention do affect the prognosis - a word which typically means the outcome from an illness not the propensity to become ill
The spreaders though are a small number (see Caerphilly & RCT) who infect all regardless of their ability to recover - they themselves are not be automatically better able to recover. The herd immunity approach has been rejected by the majority of the world including the WHO. That is why there are lock downs and track and trace.
If the herd immunity approach were adopted hokey would be up and running with no restrictions
Will indoor spectator events be back - I think the answer is yes. In what form is another issue
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
#36
If you can go to the supermarket, or any shop wearing a mask, would you not go to the rink and watch a game wearing one? I would. People go to pubs without a mask, some are still leaving the country, but we cant sit and watch a hockey game for a couple of hours? Theaters cant open, pubs can? It's a mad world.
Yes, and pubs as well as people going on foreign holidays are the two main causes of the current surge. People go to the supermarket to get essentials, they're required to social distance and wear a mask. Additionally cold conditions, as evidenced by the meat packing plant outbreaks, are ideal conditions for the virus. Sorry, your argument makes no sense to me.
 

Mazzoak

Active Member
#37
The reasoning behind avoiding Herd Immunity, there are many, from media reporting of large numbers of deaths in short period of time, the condemnation then of political figures who would find it impossible to defend, the NHS unable to cope in all areas, mass sickness rates in the workforce, people panickin, right up to body disposal. The WHO are under pressure from all sides, Herd Immunity is the only short term solution to eradicate the Virus as everyone who survives will have a better immune response naturally. Same rules as children grow to adults.
Personally l believe these measures everyone is condemning our Government for, if you read other countries media much the same is happening, is down to an indirect, don’t tell anyone, policy of Herd Immunity at a slower rate than just letting everyone loose, just enough to keep the spread at a level that’s high enough without too much issue. It’s easy to say politician A is incompetent etc etc, without knowing all the facts, do people in high level positions suddenly become morons or is it easier to push an agenda through being seen as a moron, then doing it intentionally.........
Pubs and Restaurant's are not all slammed with people, the majority I’ve been in have been very few people. A few weeks ago l was in the Harvester near the rink, barely 10 people there on a Friday, we booked a table an hour before with no issue about capacity. The eat out to help out meant three days restaurants got busy, but still only limited menu, staff and customers, certainly not rammed.
As for visiting the Races, Abroad or to England, if your following the measures, geographically shouldn’t make any difference to spreading the Virus, if you do catch it and pass it on, then that’s a question for yourselves as it takes 2 people not following guidlines to spread the virus, one to give & one to receive, if one person follows the guidelines correctly, shouldn’t be any spread. As for closing Pubs at 9.30pm, why, currently the figures are 100 infected per 100,000. An infected person/s may only enter the Pub at lunchtime, rest of the day or even that week no infected person may be in that locality.
 
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#38
Will you be organising buses Nathan?
If you can go to the supermarket, or any shop wearing a mask, would you not go to the rink and watch a game wearing one? I would. People go to pubs without a mask, some are still leaving the country, but we cant sit and watch a hockey game for a couple of hours? Theaters cant open, pubs can? It's a mad world.
Id happily sit in a packed arena and watch a game. Just like I've sat on 3 flights recently. I'd rather just get back to normal as soon as possible.

Sweden took a rather interesting approach to their lockdown. Or lack of one.
 
#40
I would put money on it that the trip to the Doncaster Races was after racegoers were excluded. After the first day of the meeting the local council used their powers to stop fans attending. Racegoers were only let in on Wednesday, I was due to go there on Friday as an owner but decided to stay at home
 
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