Grinding the Rumour Mill - ENL Devils ?

[Stoke Fan]

Personally I can not see how an Academy can work - you stop the ENL1 players competing in a good quality league to do what? Train with the Devils? Be shipped out to other teams?

Regan does not own these players and they are not his to push around like pawns on a chess board. Most of the 'prospects' are young guys, either at college or starting out on careers. If the Academy route is chosen it means one of two things...

1. The (chosen few) players train with the Devils in some way and then play ENL2 - no disrespect to the lads in ENL2 but the gulf to Elite is huge. A backward step in development terms.

2. The (chosen few) players are farmed out to EPL teams. It's already obvious from the current position that players can commit to playing at home but struggle to have the same commitment on the road. Shipping them out to EPL teams means training or playing four or more times a week....... when once a week is already too much for many? Will EPL teams just offer up roster spots to help the Devils FOC.........?


To me it's not going to work and in the short term it will undo all the good work of recent seasons - get ready for an increased bill for Brits in the Elite league because they ain't going to be Cardiff trained players if ENL1 gets dropped.

 

[Sheincar]

When my son played U10's a couple of years back I think training was £50 a month.At the time they had 25 players.
From U 10's to U18's the Devils have five teams.
Lets for the sake of argument say all the age groups roughly have the same amount of players paying the same.If I remember rightly they trained all year round.We had to pay match fees on top of that and the bus was funded by the parents of the travelling players,so no drain on funds there.
Potentially that mean's 25 x£50 X 5 teams X 12 months =£75,000
Thats not a bad start and thats just from the junior section and does not include any gate money recieved from ENL teams.
I think Ragan side on that video they are now paying between £60 and £70 a month .Not sure if my sums add up.

Don't forget the "profit" made when juniors are charged for ice time but don't get it because the Elite team have a game instead.

 

[TheStub]

I take the Academy idea as an attempt to take a concept from top flight Rugby and Football... but he obviously hasn't mapped between the major sports and Ice Hockey.

If he had he would see a major error in the idea - feed teams.

In rugby Scarlets and Ospreys (and I'd assume everyone else) have Academy team. They take the most promising players from the local youth teams and channel them into becoming better players. But it needs the feeder teams at every age group.

We have a team at each age group. Academy selection would be within a single team. Imagine the arguments it will cause - and I can't see a material change to the current setup.

All sounds ill conceived and half baked.

 

[Gazza272]

.

All sounds ill conceived and half baked.

Yet arrogantly put forward as 'this idea will work and we will get better players from it'

Great to believe but there was not one concrete reason given as to why it will work. ITs just another attempt at Ragan trying to control everything imo. Sadly as seen in this thread too many people are starting to see through it

 

[Fubar]

not only is it U10 - U18 but dont LTP and Comets come under DCF also? ENL 2 is also charged on a monthly basis
How many actual teams are getting stung £55 per month in total?

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

2. The (chosen few) players are farmed out to EPL teams. It's already obvious from the current position that players can commit to playing at home but struggle to have the same commitment on the road. Shipping them out to EPL teams means training or playing four or more times a week....... when once a week is already too much for many? Will EPL teams just offer up roster spots to help the Devils FOC.........?

It is a bit arrogant of PR to assume that they would want to come back to a club in such a state after playing EPL. the majority would get picked off by other clubs or remain at EPL level.

It is a poorly thought out idea and as such I expect a dramatic turnaround 20 minutes after P Ragan has taken advice from anyone with a bit more sense. He seems to want to run with ideas before taking a look at the long term.

Perhaps he isn't the right person to operate the new facility after all, and if he wants to run the new facility his timing for announcing these changes is piss poor and will not hold him in good stead with Cardiff Council

 

[RTfarty]

The biggest shame about this is the likelihood we will lose a lot of the most talented young players in ENL1 to other clubs as a result of the drop down.. and we certainly won't have anyone capable of stepping up and covering for injuries like we did with Harding and Piggott last season.

 

[Gingers Husband]

Perhaps he isn't the right person to operate the new facility after all, and if he wants to run the new facility his timing for announcing these changes is **** poor and will not hold him in good stead with Cardiff Council

Are there any other sensible and/or suitable candidates. I am not alone in thinking that SORAC and other users not involved thus far should maybe channel their energies into pushing another option. After the graft and sheer bloody minded determination put into getting a facility that suits everybody it would be typical of our luck if the operator turns out to be useless (as is becoming more likely with every light bulb moment PR has)
The only problem with this is the "find someone else willing to part with their cash" scenario as per last years fans forum. Allthough it may be easier for us to find one of those than it will be for him to find another 1500 - 2000 mugs that keep coming back year on year.

 

[BrokenAngel]

It is a poorly thought out idea and as such I expect a dramatic turnaround 20 minutes after P Ragan has taken advice from anyone with a bit more sense. He seems to want to run with ideas before taking a look at the long term.

I wouldn't hold your breath.
He doesn't seem to take advice, and the only person involved still is Brent, who's managed to get himself more unpopular with sponsors than Simon did.

 

[jodysstillagirlsname]

This move will also take the only perk away from the Season Ticket holder, as they get reduced entrance to ENL games. If the double headers save the team in travel money, at least ST holders can see some hockey on the same weekend.

At a forum at the Coal Exchange he promoted the season ticket prices as good value and now appears to be squeezing down the value of the Season Ticket

PR will want the savings on double headers but he has to realise that ENL 1 brings in income on the double header weekends and those games were quite well attended. He appears to want the penny and the bun

 

[Foxy]

Is it feasible for the ENL sides to run with a seperate owner out of the same facility?
That way we dont miss out on the development side of things.

They might be in a better position then to get sponsorship because at the moment we dont seem to get any sponsors without PR being involved in the company. I cant remember going for so long without having a big name sponsor like BT coca cola et al

 

[Sheincar]

Whilst I'm not for 1 minute suggesting hi-jacking it, can I remind everyone that there is a hockey 101 on Monday at the Duke of Clarence Clive Road Canton at which G will be taking questions. May be an opportunity to get his views.

 

[Foxy]

Whilst I'm not for 1 minute suggesting hi-jacking it, can I remind everyone that there is a hockey 101 on Monday at the Duke of Clarence Clive Road Canton at which G will be taking questions. May be an opportunity to get his views.

Didnt know anything about that. What time does that start?

Problem is is he going to be able to be honest.

 

[Sheincar]

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=5806&p=94233&hilit=Duke+of+Clarence#p94233

G I would trust. PR not so much!!!

 

[osh]

I think PR has way underestimated the frustration and anger that is being felt by those affected by his business decisions. I also wonder does he realise that those individuals and families who suffer will probably decide to become armchair fans of the Devils and thus seriously compromise the attendance breakeven figure that ensures he operates in a + rather than a - figure for next season. I feel that not enough head to head discussions have taken place between respective parties and maybe that is something to be addressed sooner rather than later because I can see season ticket sales suffering due to yet more misgivings surrounding the club during this off season.

 

[willpower]

I'm so glad the fan community of the Devils are beginning to see the organisation for what it is..... a millionaires plaything. There has obviously been mis management relating to D.C.F funds and they seem to be robbing peter to pay paul, he wants to scrap the wonderful platform that the ENL provides yet start an Under 8s, of course this has nothing to do with his own 6 year old who has recently started playing . The whole junior section is crawling with favouritism and nepotism with coaches and managers children always given preferential treatment and are more often than not made captain or assistant ,these children get free ice time with learn to play and management even have the temerity to unashamedly select these kids to represent the club on a trip to new york. One man ( not me) has stood alone in voicing his concerns about finances and favouritism and his views are brushed away because management are uncomfortable with the truth and he is seen as a troublemaker. The coaches ( and managers) do a good job and they invariably give their time for free but their kids are treated like hockey royalty and get unlimited ice time in games and quality time in training, it stinks and if he starts an academy it will only get worse

 

[Fubar]

that post above is exactly spot on.

 

[October 1986]

I've read twelve pages on this thread, seen the videos and frankly cannot see the problem. The Academy idea sonds perfect, the idea of driving forward and instilling ambition into players of all ages is wonderful to hear from the hockey fraternity fullstop. I come from (in my younger days) as sport where I slogged for six days a week 52 weeks a year to try and compete for my club at various age levels and I managed to get into my age teams only six or seven times in ten years. My parents paid £250 a year (remembers this was in the mid 70's) for this, travelled around at stupid o'clock to take me to training. And when my competative career was over the club helped my train as a coach and official and guiding my through sports managedment thus keeping me within the sport for anonther 15 years and passing on my enthusiasm and experinec to the next generation. There is an attempt to develop a "Pathway to Excellance" via the academy which should also incorporate the figure skating clubs, synchro club and perhaps a new short track speed club (in the new arena) in order to transfer of skills and guidance for competitors / players and also identify where a child is not suited to one ice sport to guide them in a different direction to another ice sport. Adults could also be trained properly for coaching, team management etc.

As for the ENL 1 team, it's playing against first teams (senior teams), it has imports, why on earth are we running two teams with professional imports? This is not a question for PR to answer but the EIHA who should get their finger out and decide the ENL format properly (ENL1 First teams and ENL2 Development non-import teams).

This is the way forward. Not a "Millionaires plaything". Lets see how this pans out

PS: Charities Trustees can also be known as Directors, it's not illegal (DW). Only if they take a salary from the charity.

 

[Devil Dave]

I've read twelve pages on this thread, seen the videos and frankly cannot see the problem. The Academy idea sonds perfect, the idea of driving forward and instilling ambition into players of all ages is wonderful to hear from the hockey fraternity fullstop. I come from (in my younger days) as sport where I slogged for six days a week 52 weeks a year to try and compete for my club at various age levels and I managed to get into my age teams only six or seven times in ten years. My parents paid £250 a year (remembers this was in the mid 70's) for this, travelled around at stupid o'clock to take me to training. And when my competative career was over the club helped my train as a coach and official and guiding my through sports managedment thus keeping me within the sport for anonther 15 years and passing on my enthusiasm and experinec to the next generation. There is an attempt to develop a "Pathway to Excellance" via the academy which should also incorporate the figure skating clubs, synchro club and perhaps a new short track speed club (in the new arena) in order to transfer of skills and guidance for competitors / players and also identify where a child is not suited to one ice sport to guide them in a different direction to another ice sport. Adults could also be trained properly for coaching, team management etc.

As for the ENL 1 team, it's playing against first teams (senior teams), it has imports, why on earth are we running two teams with professional imports? This is not a question for PR to answer but the EIHA who should get their finger out and decide the ENL format properly (ENL1 First teams and ENL2 Development non-import teams).

This is the way forward. Not a "Millionaires plaything". Lets see how this pans out

PS: Charities Trustees can also be known as Directors, it's not illegal (DW). Only if they take a salary from the charity.

The issue is simple, it works and we can afford it. All other ELite League teams in England have ENL one teams, ours is one of, if not the best. Its the BEST way to get players into the ELite League Devils team. Hockey is a very different sport to most and the majority of 16-18 year olds can't simple step up and play at Elite Level from Under 18's. ENL 2 league is good but not good enough development tool to feed the ELite League. We should also have the academy, GB will never improve unless we develop our kids into senior hockey properly. We need both, simple as that.

 

[Foxy]

and what if your wrong?

We've had a brilliant junior development for 25 years and now one owner, who doesnt appear to learn by his mistakes, suddenly thinks he knows best. The people hes surrounding himself with no nothing about the sport of hockey, apart from Brent whose beginning to come across as a bit of a yes man, and the lack of good sponsorship for the last few seasons is beginning to speak volumes.

I dont know what your sporting background is but ice hockey is a minority sport. We only have one facility for which we have had to fight years for. PR has jumped on the band wagon but what happens if he doesnt get the right to run the new facility. Leaving one person in charge is extremely dangerous and PR seems to want control everything.