Devils Vs Giants - League - 8th Oct 23 - 18:00 FO

Hedd Wyn John

Well-Known Member
Replace bad with dangerous.

Over the course of the season to that team Batch doing that will mean so much more than an extra 2 mins PP when let’s be honest we have a dreadful PP.

Calling out Batch for making that split second decision, have you been sharing leadership tips with Eddie Jones?
Did we win the game? Did we come away with a point?

If the roles were reversed and we'd made the foul I'd absolutely want the other team to come out throwing fists. The more the merrier.

Granted I know people want to see fights and retaliation an eye for an eye and all that. There's a time and a place for it. If we want to win we need to use our heads more than our hearts.
 

Diafol

Well-Known Member
Batch has justifiably been called out on this forum many times for not stepping up for the team when it matters.

He (correctly IMO) did it last night and is now getting called out for stepping up.

Sometimes you just can't win it seems.

I'd blame the PP unit for failing to score in those 3 minutes before I'd blame Batch TBH.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
I watched a different game to most last night. This comes with the caveat that I would love to see the Devils through Wannabe's eyes. It's a much happier place to be than my pessimistic outlook, genuinely, it is. We all see things differently. I was hugely frustrated last night.

I didn't see maximum effort. I saw a first line struggling again. Cox's is so ineffective at the moment, both in linking up plays and shooting. He seems low on energy and disinterested - I know he isn't disinterested, he just has that mannerism and way of skating that appears as though he's coasting. This team needs Cox on his game

I'm looking forward to Arniel re-joining the team!! He kicked off the season brightly and hasn't really offered much since. Same for Ully. Pushing Crandall to the 3rd line feels right as Barrow continues to be the signing of the season. His work rate is first class.

I thought we were out muscled last night and some similarities to last season. Again our exits from the zones were painful and just caused so many problems. A few times Sandford tried to dipsy doodle his way through the middle of the ice and into the zone only to be easily picked off. He shouldn't have to do that. He doesn't have that in his locker. Our build up phase play needs to be much better. You don't want to send Sandford and Joey into the backboards to fight for the puck. It has to be tape to tape to let them skate menacingly in the offensive zone but time and time again they were head down fighting for the puck against 6ft 2 guys. The 1st line lived off scraps and spent a significant time trying to dig the puck out of the boards in our own defensive zone as well as up the ice - they are then totally knackered and have to go for a change. Waller again offered very little, exciting bursts of speed with the puck into the attacking zone only for it to come straight back out and put us under pressure.

Belfast won the physical battle. Inside the first 5 minutes Friend had levelled three of our guys. We did look very light weight. It took Brandt until the third period before hitting someone such was the way Belfast played. Each time the puck went into their zone it easily came back out other than a few occasions when we managed to cycle the puck and get a line change.

Duggan needs to find his place and role. I just don't see what he offers right now. It's not physicality, it's not goals, it's not a presence. Davies is leading the way with all of that. He's a menace. I wonder if he's trying too hard given his place is under threat.

The power play was woeful and our weekend was summed up by Crandall, when the puck spilled out to him in the second period and gave him a clear shooting opportunity with time to pick his spot, he missed the target from 6 our 7 yards out. That stuff is so frustrating for me. At least hit the target.

This feels like 'one of those' weekends which could do the guys some good. So many lessons can be taken from this weekend. I saw PR losing his nut with the guys as basics weren't executed from line changes to clearing the zone. I'm fully confident, that he'll fix it.

Lastly Batch, I get both arguments but blimey, the guys sees his line mate levelled and he HAS to do something about it for me. I don't think you really have time to think about it. Doing what he did put us 2 D-Men down given he would be in the box and Chad's game is done - but I still think he had to step up. I'm not his biggest fan but I think he had no choice.

A poor weekend but hopefully lots to take from it.
 
Last edited:

Hedd Wyn John

Well-Known Member
For what they are worth my views on last night.
With a netminder like Besko, Belfast win the league. Although Bowns has found form again so far this season we don’t have a good enough pairing to compete.
Besko is like a brick wall at the back, coupled with our poor creation of space and shooting angles we did well to score twice.
Bowns rebound control was poor and on the attacks where Belfast scored their second and especially third we looked panicked and like they were always going to come away with goals.
If only we had our hands on a netminder that had consistent stats like Besko….

We missed Mosey, hopefully he’s not on the gantry for to long.

If I had a £ for every time Crawford put a pointless cross check in after he’s had a mistake or spat his dummy out I could afford to buy 50 & SOHB tickets again.

Our PP is awful, no movement in front of the net to create any space.

No players look confident or comfortable on break aways, before they even hit the blue line they are looking for the perfect pass rather than backing themselves and taking the shot - Mosey OT winner in pre season style.

Few players are struggling for from Waller, Cox, Sanford and and and….

Batch HAS to get involved after the awful hit on Chad, no question. We didn’t loose the game because of that 2min penalty we had 58 other minutes to put ourselves in a more comfortable position. Batch taking that on will mean a lot more to his team mates over a season than not.

I’m sure it will all come good, PR clearly has the ideas and passion as do the players. Missing chemistry and confidence this weekend.
Broadly agree with this (although I differ about the Batch retaliation but I've said enough about that)

PR is a great coach, top record and all but what do you make of his post game interview? He gave a very positive assessment and whether that's just for the media or his genuine view I don't know but I don't share his rosy assessment.

Giants looked comfortable for most of it, we didn't create many grade A chances, Giants had a strong forecheck and although the stats were in our favour (except goals) & can't fault the effort from the Devils but Giants didn't look troubled.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
Batch would have been crucified on here and SM if he hadn’t waded into printz.
He could have also been given 5 minutes too I’d say but would have very harsh. As someone said earlier, a two minute roughing penalty to printz would have been great if only to see Keefe go into full door slamming mode!!
Interesting to see barrow and Crandall swapping lines for half the game.
Agree.... how did Batch only get 2 when he's dropped the gloves and is throwing punches at someone who isn't interested in partaking. I also didn't get Brandt's penalty with Belfast number 3 (who had a great game). Brandt is on the floor getting cross checked to the back of the head. He gets up and the lino's are in the way so he doesn't do anything and the Ref sits them both. Those decisions wind me right up. He didn't do anything for me. He didn't even have the opportunity.
 

Hedd Wyn John

Well-Known Member
Batch has justifiably been called out on this forum many times for not stepping up for the team when it matters.

He (correctly IMO) did it last night and is now getting called out for stepping up.

Sometimes you just can't win it seems.

I'd blame the PP unit for failing to score in those 3 minutes before I'd blame Batch TBH.
That's a fair comment. It's obviously a matter of opinion when players should & should not get into fights. That's what makes this forum great, we can all discuss and share our views. No player is going to please all the fans all the time (unless their scoring 10 goals every game or (if a goalie) having a shut out every game).

Overall the Devils just weren't good enough as a team last night and we need keep working on it.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
Did we win the game? Did we come away with a point?

If the roles were reversed and we'd made the foul I'd absolutely want the other team to come out throwing fists. The more the merrier.

Granted I know people want to see fights and retaliation an eye for an eye and all that. There's a time and a place for it. If we want to win we need to use our heads more than our hearts.
I get where you are coming from but in this particular instance I’m afraid your opinion is just wrong. If you don’t react as Batch did you won’t have to worry about losing one game as your whole work up to now will disintegrate as your team fractures into individuals looking out for themselves.
 

MA18

Well-Known Member
Apples and oranges. You're comparing something when the ref missed it with an incident when the ref didn't miss it & you've got a penalty coming your way.
Did we win the game? Did we come away with a point?

If the roles were reversed and we'd made the foul I'd absolutely want the other team to come out throwing fists. The more the merrier.

Granted I know people want to see fights and retaliation an eye for an eye and all that. There's a time and a place for it. If we want to win we need to use our heads more than our hearts.
Clearly no we didn’t win so we obviously didn’t get any points.

I’d like to think our players have a bit more about them than to drive a prone players head into the boards from behind with the intent that was shown last night. A hit like that in only ever going to end in injury, a twats trick if you like.

I’d rather see points than punches but if you think in a split second everyone should deicide to stake away from that, pick Chad up and carry on like nothing has happened, hoping the Refs sort it because we MIGHT get a 5min PP then you have ice running through your veins and can deal with adrenaline much better than most.

Not expecting to change your mind but I don’t think you can call individuals out for reacting the way they did.
 
Oh here we go. Just sneak enough bollocks in there to trigger the locals hey.

The hit is bad as it’s boarding and not a hit from behind. The fact Chad turned is irrelevant. Printz travelled distance at speed and hit Chad with enough gap from the boards he hit them out of control and got injured. You just expose your ignorance with the whole he turned defence as that wasn’t the offence or penalty. You can hit someone shoulder to shoulder and still get a boarding call so yes it was bad for the offence it was.

As for Batch should have got more as Printz was an unwilling combatant. You can fuck right off on that one.
I'm saying what I saw, but it seems only certain people are allowed to make comments. Then when someone voices an alternative viewpoint there are plenty on here that revert to abusive language (even towards their fellow Devils fans).
You either agree or disagree with other peoples views, but just using profanities doesn't strengthen your or anybody else's arguement
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
Agree.... how did Batch only get 2 when he's dropped the gloves and is throwing punches at someone who isn't interested in partaking. I also didn't get Brandt's penalty with Belfast number 3 (who had a great game). Brandt is on the floor getting cross checked to the back of the head. He gets up and the lino's are in the way so he doesn't do anything and the Ref sits them both. Those decisions wind me right up. He didn't do anything for me. He didn't even have the opportunity.
Referee’s reffing the game. I’m so much as they spotted the first offence and let the response go to a level. Brandt’s penalty was for crashing the net after the whistle and starting the altercation. Curti got his for going a little too far in response.

Same with Batch. The hit started the incident. Refs let Batch get a few in and then stop.

The refs are reffing with game management in mind so teams feel the calls are proportionate to what happened and don’t go seeking retribution. They did it well in fairness.

As mentioned I would have only thought they could have called a discretionary roughing penalty on Printz as that starting 4v4 after seemed mental but overall the refs were ok in the game. Couple interference calls got missed but in fairness there was a lot going on.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
I do agree that at one point it was potentially going to be a shoulder to shoulder hit as Chad was there to be taken but he then turned in - which is in no way unusual or unexpected. It's the norm in fact. Printz should have shown more care for a fellow professional there, in my opinion. I'm sure the highly reliable, consistent and lovable DOPs will have a view we'll all agree on.

Batch has dropped the gloves and gone for Printz (and good on him). The fact Printz bottled it is by the by for me, Batch getting just 2 mins seems odd. I'm not asking for more. I'm asking for consistency. I assumed (and I always look to Finny in these instances to prove me wrong) but if he drops the gloves and starts swinging, it's 5 mins regardless.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
Referee’s reffing the game. I’m so much as they spotted the first offence and let the response go to a level. Brandt’s penalty was for crashing the net after the whistle and starting the altercation. Curti got his for going a little too far in response.
Oh right. Apologies. I thought Brandt got a roughing call and not interference (for the net crash). I didn't see the Refs hand go up for that.
 

Rempel16

Well-Known Member
I'm saying what I saw, but it seems only certain people are allowed to make comments. Then when someone voices an alternative viewpoint there are plenty on here that revert to abusive language (even towards their fellow Devils fans).
You either agree or disagree with other peoples views, but just using profanities doesn't strengthen your or anybody else's arguement
I think it’s great that you come on here and give your view as undoubtedly you will have a different opinion 75% of the time.

But in fairness, you have to expect that expressing your view as a Giants fan on a Devils forum is going to cause a stir.

The hit stokes the rivalry for the rest of the season, and that can only be good for all of us, as fans.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
I'm saying what I saw, but it seems only certain people are allowed to make comments. Then when someone voices an alternative viewpoint there are plenty on here that revert to abusive language (even towards their fellow Devils fans).
You either agree or disagree with other peoples views, but just using profanities doesn't strengthen your or anybody else's arguement
You are more than intelligent enough to know exactly what you were up to. Save the victim complex. You posted not what you saw but for a reaction. Don’t whinge when it’s not the one you wanted. If you want a proper debate then post a proper response not a trigger.
 
That's a fair comment. It's obviously a matter of opinion when players should & should not get into fights. That's what makes this forum great, we can all discuss and share our views. No player is going to please all the fans all the time (unless their scoring 10 goals every game or (if a goalie) having a shut out every game).

Overall the Devils just weren't good enough as a team last night and we need keep working on it.
You're correct in as much that it's a matter of opinion whether players jump into fights, but really its only a matter of opinion for the fans. For the players and what happens in that team, there's no debate or opinion, only what's expected and demanded. I can guarantee you that every single one of Batch's team mates and coaching staff would have been fist bumping him and giving him a stick tap.
The only thing that surprises me is that the Giants player didnt drop his gloves as he would have known a response would have been coming. If any of the Giants players have any respect for the code (and I'm sure Keefe does) then keeping your gloves glued on wouldnt have gone down well with their team either.
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
Didn't get to see the game sadly, but seen the awful hit on Pietroniro. 2-3 game ban for me.

Laughable how many experts from Belfast I've seen post on Twitter that there was nothing wrong with the hit and it was only bad because Chad turned last minute.
Irrelevant. It wasn't called as a Check From Behind and so whether or not he turned isn't part of the argument.

It was Boarding. For which the IIHF definition is:
41.1. BOARDING A boarding penalty shall be imposed on any Player who checks or pushes a defenseless opponent in such a manner that causes the opponent to hit or impact the Boards violently or dangerously. The severity of the penalty, based upon the impact with the Boards, shall be at the discretion of the Referee. There is a considerable amount of judgment involved in the application of this rule by the Referees.
The duty is on the Player applying the check to ensure their opponent is not in a defenseless position and if so, they must avoid or minimize contact. However, in determining whether such contact could have been avoided, the circumstances of the check, including whether the opponent put themself in a vulnerable position immediately prior to or simultaneously with the check or whether the check was unavoidable can be considered. This balance must be considered by the Referees when applying this rule. Any unnecessary contact with a Player playing the puck on an obvious “icing” or “off-side” play which results in that Player hitting or impacting the Boards is “boarding” and must be penalized as such. In other instances where there is no contact with the Boards, it should be treated as “charging.”

I've bolded the key point above. It is Printz's responsibility to ensure that Chad is not in a vulnerable position.
The screenshot below shows that before Chad turns or before Printz starts the hit - Chad is already in a vulnerable position.

1696847806461.png
 

Have Hope#35

Well-Known Member
Should we have taken more of our chances? Yes... Was it a bad performance? Definitely not. We were terrible away at Nottingham so that is 2pts dropped, but against Belfast the best team lost. Batch also made the correct decision, you can't let those things go... I'm sure that Russell would want him to step up like that!
 

jimmy snels

Well-Known Member
Batch should have got a minimum of 2+2, and even as you say 5. Throwing off his gloves and repeatedly punching a unwilling combatant. Bigging him up for this, but if it was against a devil it would be the worst thing ever. People also saying Printz should have been given and extra 2 for roughing....why?
Don't think the hit is anywhere near as bad as some think, the player turned at the last moment and initial contact it between the shoulder blades. But his head did snap into the plexi, but some of you expecting 4 to 6 games are deluded.
Each team has their own view on incidents, and their own view on punishment. I may think a fine or 1 or 2 games max (based of DOPs so far this season) but on the opposite side your wanting 4 to 6, which is natural because it was against YOUR player...just don't really see it happening


Printz is an absolute shit house for not fighting back. You make a hit like that, at that speed at that distance from the boards from a player's blind side expect the repercussions. I'd fully expect a devil who did this to get a significant ban and fully expect them to be in a fight afterwards. We had chad literally fighting for a far batter check last week!
Fuck the code now days is it?! Keefe made how many of these hits on devils himself and had team mates hit with them and dropped those mitts every time because he's not an absolute fanny.

I expect a ban. If not teams may want to load up on a goon ready for these situations as it will happen more and more
 
Top