Devils Vs Flames - League - 18th Feb 23 - 19:00 FO
- Thread starter James
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Coaches need to be left to coaching, Todd isn’t a coach, yet our current rookie coaches, Lord and the experienced Skalde had Todd in their ears. You’all think Lord left amicably & on good terms, fine, that’s an opinion & that is a very popular & shared across the fan base. Todd storming into the changing rooms on a game night, maybe that’s right, maybe not. Lord wasn’t happy at all, each yr pressure to perform continued & that meant more intervention by Todd. The Devils without Lord are nothing because Lord went beyond in terms of passion and work ethic & that can’t be replicated easily. When a coach isn’t left to build a team that passion isn’t going to just appear, words won’t cut it. Coaches leave, and Lord dropped them right in it. Maybe I’m wrong, maybe one day Lord will visit the IAW, shake hands with Todd & the owners, maybe hell will freeze too.
Whatever the reasons for Lordo leaving, there is no denying he is difficult to replace. An incoming coach has not only got to have the technical skills, he will have to know how to motivate his players every training session and every game. He will also need to understand the Cardiff Devils culture quickly.
Paul Dixon and Adam Keefe get that with their organisations..they have been with their clubs a long time. Lordo was both player and coach for the Devils and 'got it'. The question of who our coach should be is a complicated one because it might mean bringing in someone new. No doubt Lord's boots are huge ones to fill but do the fans want to wait a couple of seasons of mistakes and inconsistency whilst a rookie coach finds his feet?
Sometimes, of course, it's not the coaching that's the issue. Players often don't buy into tactics and style...or simply aren't the right skill level.
Paul Dixon and Adam Keefe get that with their organisations..they have been with their clubs a long time. Lordo was both player and coach for the Devils and 'got it'. The question of who our coach should be is a complicated one because it might mean bringing in someone new. No doubt Lord's boots are huge ones to fill but do the fans want to wait a couple of seasons of mistakes and inconsistency whilst a rookie coach finds his feet?
Sometimes, of course, it's not the coaching that's the issue. Players often don't buy into tactics and style...or simply aren't the right skill level.
It’s not that difficult to be honest, the incoming coach or Dupont if he remains, just needs to be able to go about building a team & engaging fans. What Dupont said pre season, to then not materialise, that can’t happen, ever. Todd needs to learn to trust people he employs, to do the job he employed them for. We need a coach who’ll do what Brandt does, show passion with conviction.
the problem is ? what i see is Dupont pulls the goalie when it ain't going to do any good to win a game? your to many goals down and no time to get goals back , how the hell are you going to score 3 goals in 4 minutes? this scenario has happened many times. this season. some times you watch the play and you can tell that they aren't going to score. but they still carry on playing the same? its one-dimensional hockey. when we go on a 5 on 4 you just don't expect them to score . its that bad. for me coaching is problem 1 , problem 2 is players, are they being asked to play differently to what they are good at? and used to? are players living on past history and just going through the motions? for me input from the manager is ok but must be hand off. but the final decision on players and coaching should be left to the coach / the coach should live and die on his hockey stick.
The fundamental problem with the devils pulling the goalie is that our puck retention is so poor that we're more likely to concede another goal than score one. That's exactly what happened last night.
What might have made a difference is taking our time out earlier in the game to sort things out. But given that we can't even look organised at the start of games, that probably wouldn't have made a difference either.
What might have made a difference is taking our time out earlier in the game to sort things out. But given that we can't even look organised at the start of games, that probably wouldn't have made a difference either.
Now that's what I call determination and guts...
Whilst I agree that performance was a bust for what should have been a blood and thunder display and raises a lot of questions about this team and some of those players ability to be contenders in those situations I do think a few comments are more frustration than fact.
Pulling the goalie. To be honest I don’t see the issue. Your losing anyway so roll the dice. Do it far enough out you never know what you might be able to do. Leave it to 2 mins out and it’s even more redundant a reaction I’d suggest.
As for the Lordo comparisons for Brodie. Think what you want of Brodie but let’s be honest it is not a like for like scenario. Lordo took over with expectation at an all time low. He couldn’t really lose. He also got pretty lucky to acquire and retain players such as Joey M, Joey H, Hoth. League MVP players. He was given the chance to develop himself as a coach over multiple years and yes learn from mistakes. But Todd fundamentally believed in Lordo. If he feels he sees the same in Brodie then I’d say stick with him but the challenge is to find the next golden generation for him to work with.
This team aren’t going to win the league. There’s no shame in that. Steelers won’t either. Belfast have had to throw everything at trying to win it financially. Guildford in fairness are the team that deserves the most credit whether they win or not. Devils simply aren’t good enough but they’ll go again next year. That’s sport. Success goes in cycles and right now simply isn’t Devils time and I can live with that. I think what most people want to see is a bit of a logical forward looking plan though to understand what it is they are being asked to support. A perceived acceptance of mediocrity seems to be the biggest disconnect at present. I do think Devils have lost his way with fan engagement strategy a little. Fournier in his brief spell showed the benefits of players being accessible to fans and what it brought to the on ice product.
Pulling the goalie. To be honest I don’t see the issue. Your losing anyway so roll the dice. Do it far enough out you never know what you might be able to do. Leave it to 2 mins out and it’s even more redundant a reaction I’d suggest.
As for the Lordo comparisons for Brodie. Think what you want of Brodie but let’s be honest it is not a like for like scenario. Lordo took over with expectation at an all time low. He couldn’t really lose. He also got pretty lucky to acquire and retain players such as Joey M, Joey H, Hoth. League MVP players. He was given the chance to develop himself as a coach over multiple years and yes learn from mistakes. But Todd fundamentally believed in Lordo. If he feels he sees the same in Brodie then I’d say stick with him but the challenge is to find the next golden generation for him to work with.
This team aren’t going to win the league. There’s no shame in that. Steelers won’t either. Belfast have had to throw everything at trying to win it financially. Guildford in fairness are the team that deserves the most credit whether they win or not. Devils simply aren’t good enough but they’ll go again next year. That’s sport. Success goes in cycles and right now simply isn’t Devils time and I can live with that. I think what most people want to see is a bit of a logical forward looking plan though to understand what it is they are being asked to support. A perceived acceptance of mediocrity seems to be the biggest disconnect at present. I do think Devils have lost his way with fan engagement strategy a little. Fournier in his brief spell showed the benefits of players being accessible to fans and what it brought to the on ice product.
Normally you and I find a lot to agree on, but I fundamentally disagree with a lot of what you've said here.
Pulling the goalie is all very well when there's any reason to think it'll be successful. Unfortunately there was no reason to think that was the case. Keeping the puck and moving it around effectively has been a problem all season. But even when we have it's been no end product, because Fournier was the only player we had who would do the dirty work. Maybe he thought he could run his top players, take the time out around the 58 minute mark and then run them again, and that's why he saved it.
I also don't buy that the difference between lord and Dupont is just recruitment. Lord was obsessive about detail. Whilst he made mistakes, he learnt and didn't make the same mistake constantly. The special teams were the bedrock of lord's success. I didn't think that Dupont ticked the necessary boxes when he was appointed, and I feel vindicated now.
I'm not saying another coach would bring instant success, but I'd at least hope we go into games prepared and I wouldn't keep banging my head against the wall.
Pulling the goalie is all very well when there's any reason to think it'll be successful. Unfortunately there was no reason to think that was the case. Keeping the puck and moving it around effectively has been a problem all season. But even when we have it's been no end product, because Fournier was the only player we had who would do the dirty work. Maybe he thought he could run his top players, take the time out around the 58 minute mark and then run them again, and that's why he saved it.
I also don't buy that the difference between lord and Dupont is just recruitment. Lord was obsessive about detail. Whilst he made mistakes, he learnt and didn't make the same mistake constantly. The special teams were the bedrock of lord's success. I didn't think that Dupont ticked the necessary boxes when he was appointed, and I feel vindicated now.
I'm not saying another coach would bring instant success, but I'd at least hope we go into games prepared and I wouldn't keep banging my head against the wall.
Lordo’s first year in charge we crashed out of play offs in quarters to Belfast. I distinctly remember losing my mind because Lordo pushed the panic button early in that game and pulled the goalie and threw it away. However he’d won the CC and come third in league and people cut him slack as they were just happy to be back in contention and the style of play was entertaining. Brodie is not being afforded that luxury by the fans. Mainly due to higher expectations and also a poor fan engagement strategy from the club. Now I’m not singing Brodie’s praises here but I am saying people remember Lordo fondly for all he achieved but edit out the bad bits. More than once Devils got humped with Lordo in charge. Calls for us being soft and Lordo having players on a tight leash. Too cosy. It was all there as well when Devils lost a game. I’m not saying the difference between the two is purely recruitment but we as fans don’t know the full picture. If Todd sees a future with Brodie and ability to learn and develop I wouldn’t jettison him quite so quickly. At the end of the day Brodie has got the team in league contention and within a whisker of Conti Cup glory so if he can build season on season then there is no telling what next year would look like. It’s plainly obvious players have under performed this year and a good few should lose their roster spots of the back of it but as much a change is good so can continuity and growth in the right places.
I see fans on here sing Keefe’s praises a lot however in his first year the finished 5th in the league and crapped out of the play offs. However he’d bought himself time as a player and Thornton clearly saw something. Let’s not forget he’s had to get the cheque book out more than once to rescue a season.
I just think a fair few on here lack objectivity in their opinions. I’m not trying to change anyone elses’s but there are valid differing viewpoints that see a different path than a scorched earth response to a lose.
I see fans on here sing Keefe’s praises a lot however in his first year the finished 5th in the league and crapped out of the play offs. However he’d bought himself time as a player and Thornton clearly saw something. Let’s not forget he’s had to get the cheque book out more than once to rescue a season.
I just think a fair few on here lack objectivity in their opinions. I’m not trying to change anyone elses’s but there are valid differing viewpoints that see a different path than a scorched earth response to a lose.
I've only been following the last 6/7 years so have only witnessed mostly success.
We had all these wonderful players for years and Lord was one of those he fought hit done all the jobs you expected from him so we seen the passion and pride he had in the shirt.
Brodie came last season and wasn't the player we had expected so was already getting criticism from fans who didn't take to him. Think we need to remember that he played most games last season not being able to hold the stick properly putting his own health on the line to play for the shirt.
We need to give him time chopping and changing every 5mins never works. Bring the core back has we have done in the past and just tinker with the rest.
It's a steep learning curve that takes time.
We had all these wonderful players for years and Lord was one of those he fought hit done all the jobs you expected from him so we seen the passion and pride he had in the shirt.
Brodie came last season and wasn't the player we had expected so was already getting criticism from fans who didn't take to him. Think we need to remember that he played most games last season not being able to hold the stick properly putting his own health on the line to play for the shirt.
We need to give him time chopping and changing every 5mins never works. Bring the core back has we have done in the past and just tinker with the rest.
It's a steep learning curve that takes time.
I understand your point of view, for me though nothing winds me up more than a player playing injured. Pointless. It doesn't represent "heart" or "desire" for me, it's daft. Coughler and Jardine have been out until they are fully fit with head injuries the same should apply to everyone with any injury. Give me a fully fit two way player over an undercooked first team player any day. Dupont didn't do himself any favours at all.