Devils Fan Forum - MNL coverage
- Thread starter Chris
- Start date
Sorry, but there seemed to be a lot of contridactions in things said at the forum. Just one example, the press release by Rink Corp to both the Devils and Steelers states that "regrettably, this will result in 16 staff at Rink Corp Limited being made redundant" Now tonight we hear there wasn't actually 16 members of staff as this included staff from Fusion :?
It would also appear that PR is blaming others around him for giving him bad advise but will continue to have said same people around him going forward, sweet move!
Let's hope he will listen to fans like he has said he will, only time will tell on that one.
It would also appear that PR is blaming others around him for giving him bad advise but will continue to have said same people around him going forward, sweet move!
Let's hope he will listen to fans like he has said he will, only time will tell on that one.
Re: Re: Devils Fan Forum - MNL coverage
I think the implication was Rink Corp had recently sought to aquire Fusion but this was already being wound up, as due dilligence found Fusion not a viable company. That is what I heard anyway
It didn't seem that way to me. What came across a lot is he didn't check the books, figures and business plan as well as he normally would when he took on either team. This left him in awkward situation, and financially in a bad place. He kept referring back to not doing him homework, and learning on the job. He seemed quite open about accepting help and advice from the fans, and wanting to do things better. There was a sense that he has realised he made mistakes and is looking to improve.[/quote]
Exactly my thoughts. He made the right noises - now he needs to back it up with action. We will only see if his changes take place over the next weeks and months.
I think the implication was Rink Corp had recently sought to aquire Fusion but this was already being wound up, as due dilligence found Fusion not a viable company. That is what I heard anyway
It didn't seem that way to me. What came across a lot is he didn't check the books, figures and business plan as well as he normally would when he took on either team. This left him in awkward situation, and financially in a bad place. He kept referring back to not doing him homework, and learning on the job. He seemed quite open about accepting help and advice from the fans, and wanting to do things better. There was a sense that he has realised he made mistakes and is looking to improve.[/quote]
Exactly my thoughts. He made the right noises - now he needs to back it up with action. We will only see if his changes take place over the next weeks and months.
Re: Re: Devils Fan Forum - MNL coverage
It was knackering.
To keep up I was just putting everything in. There is no editorial line, or indeed editting. The spelling will also be shocking.
Don't take what is written there as gospel - I think I got all the points and answers down, but don't read anything into tone or wording. It isn't verbatim.
It was knackering.
To keep up I was just putting everything in. There is no editorial line, or indeed editting. The spelling will also be shocking.
Don't take what is written there as gospel - I think I got all the points and answers down, but don't read anything into tone or wording. It isn't verbatim.
A good performance from PR, swerved around a few questions like a seasoned politician. We did let him off the hook a bit, sorry a lot and I hold my hands up to that as well. As PLT said re bad advice, when the person that was a fellow director giving him that advice was sat beside him still its a poor show. In all fairness to SH his experience at running a hockey club is no more than a couple of months longer than Paul Ragans
I think it was a distraction having G on the stage as some fans asked questions re recruitment etc. All important issues but it took some of the heat off Paul and Simon
I can t help thinking we now have two bean counters running the club, with no beans to count so they can concentrate on tying G s hands behind his back
I think it was a distraction having G on the stage as some fans asked questions re recruitment etc. All important issues but it took some of the heat off Paul and Simon
I can t help thinking we now have two bean counters running the club, with no beans to count so they can concentrate on tying G s hands behind his back
Personally I felt that there was a lot of talk tonight without actually much being said. Some relevant questions were asked, but reading this forum before tonight I thought there was about to be a lot more "awkward" questions being asked...
And it seems to me that some of the people ranting and raving on The Inferno decided to leave their voices at home tonight. I think Simon in particular got off very lightly based on what had been said previously on these boards...
Overall I get the impression that as long as the product on the ice is top notch then that was all mainly what the fans want to have - which I agree with to a certain extent...but there were far more issues raised on these boards leading up to tonight than there were mentioned in the meeting.
And it seems to me that some of the people ranting and raving on The Inferno decided to leave their voices at home tonight. I think Simon in particular got off very lightly based on what had been said previously on these boards...
Overall I get the impression that as long as the product on the ice is top notch then that was all mainly what the fans want to have - which I agree with to a certain extent...but there were far more issues raised on these boards leading up to tonight than there were mentioned in the meeting.
There seems to be a rumour about max not signing. This isn't true.
Adams said he'd spoken to max in the past day or two and its positive but he will keep the pressure on as max is "special" cue giggles .... Brent agreed stating max was very much "all for the cardiff devils" at the polo yesterday
It's more likely he will sign than not.
Adams said he'd spoken to max in the past day or two and its positive but he will keep the pressure on as max is "special" cue giggles .... Brent agreed stating max was very much "all for the cardiff devils" at the polo yesterday
It's more likely he will sign than not.
Re: Re: Devils Fan Forum - MNL coverage
If we are honest that is all fans should have to worry about.
For me Paul said as much as I'd expect, and seemed fairly genuine in his want for things to improve. Saying that, the coolaide remains in the fridge - he needs to back words with actions. We need to start getting more vocal earlier if the things that aren't right are not put right.
If we hear of sponsors and fans treated in the ways that were brought up tonight the club should be approached then.
Overall, if he moves in the direction that was spoken of then happy days.
If we are honest that is all fans should have to worry about.
For me Paul said as much as I'd expect, and seemed fairly genuine in his want for things to improve. Saying that, the coolaide remains in the fridge - he needs to back words with actions. We need to start getting more vocal earlier if the things that aren't right are not put right.
If we hear of sponsors and fans treated in the ways that were brought up tonight the club should be approached then.
Overall, if he moves in the direction that was spoken of then happy days.
he repeatedly refused to account for the ST money taken so far.
as far as i'm concerned, until he explains what happened to it, i don't want him anywhere near the club. telling us that its all in the past and we need to move on isn't good enough.
also to clarify - technically we have no players signed. those confirmed so far signed contracts with a company that doesn't exist, and so need to re-sign with the new business. no player has done so yet. G reassured us that all the relevant players were aware of the situation and have verbally indicated they will still come, but this is something to bear in mind.
as far as i'm concerned, until he explains what happened to it, i don't want him anywhere near the club. telling us that its all in the past and we need to move on isn't good enough.
also to clarify - technically we have no players signed. those confirmed so far signed contracts with a company that doesn't exist, and so need to re-sign with the new business. no player has done so yet. G reassured us that all the relevant players were aware of the situation and have verbally indicated they will still come, but this is something to bear in mind.
Exactly Steve.
Although where the ST money is - if it were in Rink Corp it is now gone with the company. If it was shifted offshore the liquidating company will be interested in that, as technically it is fraud. I'd assume that monies paid have been set against previous losses - you can't ring fence ST money, it is just revenue.
The more pertinent question may have been "how are you planning on covering the shortfall left by the loss of the ST money?"
Although where the ST money is - if it were in Rink Corp it is now gone with the company. If it was shifted offshore the liquidating company will be interested in that, as technically it is fraud. I'd assume that monies paid have been set against previous losses - you can't ring fence ST money, it is just revenue.
The more pertinent question may have been "how are you planning on covering the shortfall left by the loss of the ST money?"
yes, but also you can't receive ST money if you know that those funds are to be used to cover outstanding debts.
if the business couldn't service its debts, this liquidation should have taken place at the end of the season, not shortly after taking substantial sums of money whilst insolvent. PR wouldn't answer if any ST money was spent servicing last years debts because he knows that would be a criminal offence, and whilst he seems to suck at business, he isn't that stupid.
if the business couldn't service its debts, this liquidation should have taken place at the end of the season, not shortly after taking substantial sums of money whilst insolvent. PR wouldn't answer if any ST money was spent servicing last years debts because he knows that would be a criminal offence, and whilst he seems to suck at business, he isn't that stupid.
In fact he can't comment on anything in particular about monies in or creditors of the business.
The only way he could get around it is if an expected income didn't arrive, an expense arose unexpected or a creditor called a debt in early.
He shouldn't and can't talk about. The question he can answer is about the short fall and how it will be covered. Try and get at it from the other side.
The only way he could get around it is if an expected income didn't arrive, an expense arose unexpected or a creditor called a debt in early.
He shouldn't and can't talk about. The question he can answer is about the short fall and how it will be covered. Try and get at it from the other side.
I'm still angry with Ragan about a lot thats gone on, however, he is saying the right things (for the most part) at the moment and if he has the backing of G and Pope then I am willing to give him one more season to turn things around. I just hope he doesn't make us all look like idiots for giving him a chance.
I am quite disappointed with the attitude of some people with regards to the festival of hockey, it was put together for us to celebrate and enjoy the 25 anniversary of the Devils. People say they would rather it was spent on the team but as was said last night if we all gave it our backing then more money could be gained for the benefit of our team. If we all support and are loyal to the cardiff devils then I think we should be giving it our backing.
The one thing that did bug me a lot last night is how he kept saying he wasn't going to discuss 'the nothern team' as it had nothing to do with it. The steelers had everything to do with it, how he can try and say it didn't was ridiculous in my eyes. I would also like to know is the second business that will be running the Steelers still his? As he kept stating that it was nothing to do with him and it would be looked after by other people etc. but surely if its still his business then it still has plenty to do with him.
I am quite disappointed with the attitude of some people with regards to the festival of hockey, it was put together for us to celebrate and enjoy the 25 anniversary of the Devils. People say they would rather it was spent on the team but as was said last night if we all gave it our backing then more money could be gained for the benefit of our team. If we all support and are loyal to the cardiff devils then I think we should be giving it our backing.
The one thing that did bug me a lot last night is how he kept saying he wasn't going to discuss 'the nothern team' as it had nothing to do with it. The steelers had everything to do with it, how he can try and say it didn't was ridiculous in my eyes. I would also like to know is the second business that will be running the Steelers still his? As he kept stating that it was nothing to do with him and it would be looked after by other people etc. but surely if its still his business then it still has plenty to do with him.
An interesting meeting. Not sure how much more I know that what had going into it but certainly some clarity on a few issues.
First of all, I want to thank PR, Simon and Gerad for holding this forum. Despite how we feel right now, none of them were obliged to answer fans questions, although it was of course in their own interests for the future of the club. Love or hate him, PR did answer questions. Sometimes with a few politician answers but he didn’t shy away from a very disgruntled audience. Also a huge well done to Brent who facilitated what was a very difficult situation and did it very well.
In a nut shell here are some of the main points from what I remember:
“Mistakes were made” - Namely the purchase of Sheffield did not help the Devils. The purchase of Sheffield however was in the interest of all clubs within the league. Even if we had won the league last season and/or had not purchased Sheffield, we’d still be in the situation we find ourselves in now.
“I take full responsibility” – Referring to the failures of the club. Without going into detail, the club was not in the position PR was lead to believe when he took it on. It would appear financially we were starting further behind that fans were led to believe. There were mistakes made and as CEO PR takes full responsibility.
“I apologise” – With regard to the suggestion that PR’s team have treated some existing sponsors in a disgraceful manner. There were assurances that this will not happen again and that the club welcomes any support.
“New shiney home” - We are no further forward with the new rink. PR expressed his disbelief once again about the CCC’s decision not to approve their tender and award it to PI, considering what their bid consists of. We will never be able to compete with the likes of Belfast and Nottingham while we play where we do. Glynne did explain that SORAC are meeting with the council this Thursday and that there will be direction from them after this meeting with regard to any protest action.
“Reasonable (player) budget” - The Devils will be awarded a competitive budget next season. Like last season, we will be around the 4th/5th biggest budget in the league and that will not change. However, that will be a small decrease on last season’s budget suggesting other clubs may spend bigger next season (Coventry looking like they are already IMO). The budget has to be reasonable and reflect our current position (in fairness, I personally have to agree whole heartedly with PR on this point). We won’t be where we are today in 12 months time (because of our success last year, I feel we probably have high expectations as Devils fans for this forthcoming year. Rightly so but at what cost). Gerad also added that if he felt their was any risk those players who have agreed terms with the club that he would advise them of this and that he would be looking to move on himself.
“Shiney will be welcomed back” – PR confirmed that Shannon had not been sacked, despite rumours to the contrary. PR suggested that he was sure Shannon would be involved with the Devils in the future in some capacity. Shannon is at a point of his life where he’s considering his next steps. PR talks on the phone to Shannon every 48 hours. Brent reiterated this and said he has spoken to Shannon himself only yesterday and that fans must be mindful of Shannon’s own personal circumstances.
“Shannon owns the IP Rights” – Simply confirmation of this fact. PR said that the club will not have a different name going forward.
‘Going forward’ – The Devils and Sheffield will be run independent of each other. No staff within the Devils organisation will work for Sheffield. (For me, this may also suggest that Sheffield’s budget will be different to ours (higher) which considering their business model, is probably fair comment). The Devils will operate under a new name and the licence for this name is currently under consideration. ST already purchased will be honoured and those currently paying direct debit will be written to shortly.
There was plenty more but I need to get on with some work. We are where we are. I think we need to now move forward as a club and await direction from SORAC regarding the future home. For me, underneath all the problems, there lays our biggest issue – a suitable home for the future of ice sports in this region.
First of all, I want to thank PR, Simon and Gerad for holding this forum. Despite how we feel right now, none of them were obliged to answer fans questions, although it was of course in their own interests for the future of the club. Love or hate him, PR did answer questions. Sometimes with a few politician answers but he didn’t shy away from a very disgruntled audience. Also a huge well done to Brent who facilitated what was a very difficult situation and did it very well.
In a nut shell here are some of the main points from what I remember:
“Mistakes were made” - Namely the purchase of Sheffield did not help the Devils. The purchase of Sheffield however was in the interest of all clubs within the league. Even if we had won the league last season and/or had not purchased Sheffield, we’d still be in the situation we find ourselves in now.
“I take full responsibility” – Referring to the failures of the club. Without going into detail, the club was not in the position PR was lead to believe when he took it on. It would appear financially we were starting further behind that fans were led to believe. There were mistakes made and as CEO PR takes full responsibility.
“I apologise” – With regard to the suggestion that PR’s team have treated some existing sponsors in a disgraceful manner. There were assurances that this will not happen again and that the club welcomes any support.
“New shiney home” - We are no further forward with the new rink. PR expressed his disbelief once again about the CCC’s decision not to approve their tender and award it to PI, considering what their bid consists of. We will never be able to compete with the likes of Belfast and Nottingham while we play where we do. Glynne did explain that SORAC are meeting with the council this Thursday and that there will be direction from them after this meeting with regard to any protest action.
“Reasonable (player) budget” - The Devils will be awarded a competitive budget next season. Like last season, we will be around the 4th/5th biggest budget in the league and that will not change. However, that will be a small decrease on last season’s budget suggesting other clubs may spend bigger next season (Coventry looking like they are already IMO). The budget has to be reasonable and reflect our current position (in fairness, I personally have to agree whole heartedly with PR on this point). We won’t be where we are today in 12 months time (because of our success last year, I feel we probably have high expectations as Devils fans for this forthcoming year. Rightly so but at what cost). Gerad also added that if he felt their was any risk those players who have agreed terms with the club that he would advise them of this and that he would be looking to move on himself.
“Shiney will be welcomed back” – PR confirmed that Shannon had not been sacked, despite rumours to the contrary. PR suggested that he was sure Shannon would be involved with the Devils in the future in some capacity. Shannon is at a point of his life where he’s considering his next steps. PR talks on the phone to Shannon every 48 hours. Brent reiterated this and said he has spoken to Shannon himself only yesterday and that fans must be mindful of Shannon’s own personal circumstances.
“Shannon owns the IP Rights” – Simply confirmation of this fact. PR said that the club will not have a different name going forward.
‘Going forward’ – The Devils and Sheffield will be run independent of each other. No staff within the Devils organisation will work for Sheffield. (For me, this may also suggest that Sheffield’s budget will be different to ours (higher) which considering their business model, is probably fair comment). The Devils will operate under a new name and the licence for this name is currently under consideration. ST already purchased will be honoured and those currently paying direct debit will be written to shortly.
There was plenty more but I need to get on with some work. We are where we are. I think we need to now move forward as a club and await direction from SORAC regarding the future home. For me, underneath all the problems, there lays our biggest issue – a suitable home for the future of ice sports in this region.
It was pretty far from a love in really.
For me G said what needed, and at times his body langauge was brilliant, to be said which boiled down to something along the lines of - If I didn't think the club would be competetive I would be looking for a new job and I'm not.
I think the bussiness men / man at one end of the table gave the answers that he had to give and I'm not sure I trust them / him but at least G who I have some faith in seemed to be happy to go foward.
For me G said what needed, and at times his body langauge was brilliant, to be said which boiled down to something along the lines of - If I didn't think the club would be competetive I would be looking for a new job and I'm not.
I think the bussiness men / man at one end of the table gave the answers that he had to give and I'm not sure I trust them / him but at least G who I have some faith in seemed to be happy to go foward.
I notice in the notes on mnl last night PR said he would be working full time for the Devils, and obviously will draw a salary for his work. So does this mean his time will be completely focussed on Cardiff and not shuff? If this is the case who will be running them, and if not the case isn't it a bit of a conflict of interests?