Great post by Paul. When all the evidence has been brought together and the facts have been fully established (although from the sound of it, everyone now agrees despite some of the outrageous posts last night), the Devils have to take stock and realise that a ban until the end of the season isn't enough. As someone mentioned the Leeds case, I'd like to see the guy named and shamed by his fellow fans to show that you don't want to be associated with guys like this and a ban from hockey for at least 5 years. No offense but I can't help thinking that saying sorry isn't quite enough.
Cardiff 'fan' banned
- Thread starter Imagine
- Start date
That ban is so lame - does not send out the correct message at all. Any other sport and it would have been a significant ban, possibly even a life ban, but in my opinion the Club have bottled this by handing out this pathetic ban. They should have had the balls to deal with this and take stock of what happens in other sports in this country.
It is a terrible situation that is not doing Cardiff Devils any favours at all, but the management could have come out of this with at least showing that this will not be tolerated, instead they cannot even get that right...
Very disappointed all round right now...
It is a terrible situation that is not doing Cardiff Devils any favours at all, but the management could have come out of this with at least showing that this will not be tolerated, instead they cannot even get that right...
Very disappointed all round right now...
Shocking announcement from the club. Sending a terrible message out. A "fan" assaults a player, a steward gets assaulted by a "fan" for trying to stop the fan abusing opposition players , and 2 idiots threatening a player in the penalty box, yet the club hands out ONE paltry ban?
The club are the laughing stock of the elite league, and simmsey will no doubt enhance this reputation with his sky show. Dreading it. A club we supposedly love being reduced to a laughing stock? Issue proper bans before its too late, the hole your digging is getting deeper by the minute!
The club are the laughing stock of the elite league, and simmsey will no doubt enhance this reputation with his sky show. Dreading it. A club we supposedly love being reduced to a laughing stock? Issue proper bans before its too late, the hole your digging is getting deeper by the minute!
As a paid employee of the organisation that imposed the ban Paul, aren't you being rather unprofessional criticising their decision on this open forum?
I wholeheartedly agree that this fan should be banned. There has to be a clear message sent to others that player interference is unacceptable. However, I think you, DWoods21, Imagine and several others are letting your personal agenda against the particular fan involved cloud your judgement? Weren't there comments about karma being spoken about near the Dj booth on Sunday night?
Thread starter
#30
I wasn't aware of who this person was until late Sunday.
I was at the other end of the ice with the Stars of the game presentations, or non-presentations, when this was going on.
I don't accept your claim about an agenda though.
Irrespective of who it was, I think an opportunity has been lost to send a message to all fans that this is not acceptable. No matter who you are. A ban of 2/3 season is nothing.
I was at the other end of the ice with the Stars of the game presentations, or non-presentations, when this was going on.
I don't accept your claim about an agenda though.
Irrespective of who it was, I think an opportunity has been lost to send a message to all fans that this is not acceptable. No matter who you are. A ban of 2/3 season is nothing.
Knuckles
I can with 100% certainty tell you there is no personal agenda. And that is where that should be left as it is a very personnel matter.
Yes Karma was mentioned later but the key point and it was consistently said so you may have only heard a snippet of any conversation is that it did not matter who the fan was that the actions of that fan were way across any line of anything that is remotely acceptable and a long ban has to be in order. And that was said way before any fan was identified.
I can with 100% certainty tell you there is no personal agenda. And that is where that should be left as it is a very personnel matter.
Yes Karma was mentioned later but the key point and it was consistently said so you may have only heard a snippet of any conversation is that it did not matter who the fan was that the actions of that fan were way across any line of anything that is remotely acceptable and a long ban has to be in order. And that was said way before any fan was identified.
I'm not sure how supposition really adds to the debate so perhaps we would be better served dealing with the known facts of the incident rather than making unwarranted assumptions.
At the end of the day, this 'fan' didn't have a knife or other personal weapon on him and there was no instance of any serious harm being done. Was there actually any harm done to Olson bar apparently being confronted and shoved which would, in real world terms, constitute a common assault? Hypothetically he could have had any one of a number of things on him that could easily have caused serious harm to another, but yet again he didn't. Or are you suggesting that we all take the automatic viewpoint that someone else is equipped with a knife or worse and thus we should react to that perceived level of personal threat accordingly? Good luck taking that stance and trying to justify it to the powers that be. Reasonable and appropriate force and all that :idea:
I don't believe anyone is condoning what this guy did, I'm certainly not and I have no idea who he is,however the response must be measured and appropriate to the situation at hand. This is hockey we are talking about here where crowd problems and altercations such as this are the absolute exception rather than the rule and arguably rarer than hens teeth.
So how did we get to the stage where we are using football, a sport still to this day dealing with crowd violence, racism, homophobia and all the rest of it, as a benchmark to dealing with issues in other sports? Football and its supporters have Laws and Acts in place to deal with its unique problems and the legislation is there to deal with it in the context of football and football alone. I'm not aware of any other sport that has specific banning orders in place following a conviction for an actual sport ( i.e. football) specific offence. It could be argued that the severity of some football related fines, bans and jail sentences is proportionate to the problem, and to try and deter others from engaging in the same behaviour within that sport.
Personally I don't think you need a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, and you don't need to draw on the standards/legislation another sport clearly needs and uses when dealing with an issue like this within hockey that is an absolute rarity. Just because football deals with something a particular way doesn't automatically mean that it's the best solution for other sports.Would rugby or cricket turn to the standards of football if faced with a similar incident? If this was happening around the league every week I could see the rationale in calling for the length of ban some are suggesting, but it isn't. The guys banned for the rest of the season, and within the context of what happened, and within the context of hockey alone, then to me that's proportionate and appropriate.
Seriously, if this had been the last but one game of the season, do you really think they would have just banned him for one game? :roll:
I'm not sure what your point is with regards to projecting yourself as a concerned parent and having someone in the BBT who, as you state,has a 'lack of control and obvious temper'. I would bet good money, in fact nigh on guarantee it, that on any given night there will be someone in that building who has done worse than shove a hockey player, and thus would be far more of a perceived threat to children, yet you will have no idea who they are or what they've done.It would be no different walking around St Davids or sitting in a cinema. You would have to be quite naive to think otherwise, so given that, I have to assume that your concerned parent scenario was done more to embellish your stance and opinion rather than based on sound thinking and judgement.
At the end of the day, this 'fan' didn't have a knife or other personal weapon on him and there was no instance of any serious harm being done. Was there actually any harm done to Olson bar apparently being confronted and shoved which would, in real world terms, constitute a common assault? Hypothetically he could have had any one of a number of things on him that could easily have caused serious harm to another, but yet again he didn't. Or are you suggesting that we all take the automatic viewpoint that someone else is equipped with a knife or worse and thus we should react to that perceived level of personal threat accordingly? Good luck taking that stance and trying to justify it to the powers that be. Reasonable and appropriate force and all that :idea:
I don't believe anyone is condoning what this guy did, I'm certainly not and I have no idea who he is,however the response must be measured and appropriate to the situation at hand. This is hockey we are talking about here where crowd problems and altercations such as this are the absolute exception rather than the rule and arguably rarer than hens teeth.
So how did we get to the stage where we are using football, a sport still to this day dealing with crowd violence, racism, homophobia and all the rest of it, as a benchmark to dealing with issues in other sports? Football and its supporters have Laws and Acts in place to deal with its unique problems and the legislation is there to deal with it in the context of football and football alone. I'm not aware of any other sport that has specific banning orders in place following a conviction for an actual sport ( i.e. football) specific offence. It could be argued that the severity of some football related fines, bans and jail sentences is proportionate to the problem, and to try and deter others from engaging in the same behaviour within that sport.
Personally I don't think you need a sledgehammer to crack a walnut, and you don't need to draw on the standards/legislation another sport clearly needs and uses when dealing with an issue like this within hockey that is an absolute rarity. Just because football deals with something a particular way doesn't automatically mean that it's the best solution for other sports.Would rugby or cricket turn to the standards of football if faced with a similar incident? If this was happening around the league every week I could see the rationale in calling for the length of ban some are suggesting, but it isn't. The guys banned for the rest of the season, and within the context of what happened, and within the context of hockey alone, then to me that's proportionate and appropriate.
Seriously, if this had been the last but one game of the season, do you really think they would have just banned him for one game? :roll:
I'm not sure what your point is with regards to projecting yourself as a concerned parent and having someone in the BBT who, as you state,has a 'lack of control and obvious temper'. I would bet good money, in fact nigh on guarantee it, that on any given night there will be someone in that building who has done worse than shove a hockey player, and thus would be far more of a perceived threat to children, yet you will have no idea who they are or what they've done.It would be no different walking around St Davids or sitting in a cinema. You would have to be quite naive to think otherwise, so given that, I have to assume that your concerned parent scenario was done more to embellish your stance and opinion rather than based on sound thinking and judgement.
I have to agree with Paul on this one. Passion is one thing we have in abundance but I wouldn't feel comfortable being sat in the crowd with anyone who was willing to confront a player. There is no excuse, it's out of order, simple as that. Oldgoalie, you suggest that the offender didn't have a weapon, is this an opinion or a fact? Perhaps he had one too many sherberts? Alcohol can be a weapon in itself.
I sincerely hope the 'fan' regrets his actions, shows remorse, NEVER repeats it, and considers himself very lucky. Lets also not let it over shadow the reaction from Ben Olson. If he plays another game in this country I'd be suprised.
I sincerely hope the 'fan' regrets his actions, shows remorse, NEVER repeats it, and considers himself very lucky. Lets also not let it over shadow the reaction from Ben Olson. If he plays another game in this country I'd be suprised.
Typo on my part fella, should have read ' this 'fan' apparently didn't have a knife or other personal weapon on him' but can't edit the post to change it to what it should have read 
I must say that from previous professional experience nobody would be more surprised than me if the guy had phoned the police with a contentious assault claim whilst carrying some form of weaponWD
Anyway, I've said my piece on this - moving on.
I must say that from previous professional experience nobody would be more surprised than me if the guy had phoned the police with a contentious assault claim whilst carrying some form of weapon
WD Anyway, I've said my piece on this - moving on.
I said this on twitter. If Voth had done what Olson did at Coventry or Shuff I can't help thinking the reaction and headlines would have been very different. We would be talking life-time bans / points deductions etc etc. Before anyone jumps on me - I'm not condoning what the fan did and I'm happy he has been banned (should have been longer too).
Spot on Old Goalie - I also have something to add about Paul commenting on this as well. You state Paul, that if you were a concerned parent in the rink that you would be worried about potentially sitting near the kind of fan that would shove a player... yet there was just this year a member of staff (in sponsorship form) that you and many others had full knowledge had been arrested and was in court on allegations of child paedophilia, yet you knowingly allowed that man into the rink and around vulnerable juniors until he received a prison sentence. How can your opinion differ so much? I'd be interested if you could clarify why someone with no criminal record who makes a silly mistake (and lets face it, it was pretty stupid) and shoves a player in the heat of the moment is more of a threat to the devils customer than a paedophile.
Oldgoalie80 said:
Typo on my part fella, should have read ' this 'fan' apparently didn't have a knife or other personal weapon on him' but can't edit the post to change it to what it should have read
I must say that from previous professional experience nobody would be more surprised than me if the guy had phoned the police with a contentious assault claim whilst carrying some form of weaponWD
Anyway, I've said my piece on this - moving on.
I must say that from previous professional experience nobody would be more surprised than me if the guy had phoned the police with a contentious assault claim whilst carrying some form of weapon
WD Anyway, I've said my piece on this - moving on.
I don't see how parallels cannot be drawn, particularly to recent incidents. A fan entered a restricted area with the intention, and the resulting outcome, of assaulting a player.
What's the difference and what does it matter if that player plies his trade on a pitch, a pad or a court?
Its the same wrong action for anyone and reasonable thinking can easily compare and contrast the response. I don't need to embellish anything. We had an individual who lost control. Once control is lost and restraint is gone, all bets are off.
What's the difference and what does it matter if that player plies his trade on a pitch, a pad or a court?
Its the same wrong action for anyone and reasonable thinking can easily compare and contrast the response. I don't need to embellish anything. We had an individual who lost control. Once control is lost and restraint is gone, all bets are off.