voth concerns?

jimmy snels

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #1
just out of interest, am i the only person currently concerned about brads form? iv left it a while as he's been coming back from injury but im starting to get a little worried by his lack of "voth like" activites :?

on a side note i think i should also point out i think our 3rd line is fantastic so much so im starting to wonder whether our 2nd line is actually our 3rd :?: there much more of a threat to the opposition in my opinion and seem to be our best defensive unit to!
 
#2
jimmy snels said:
just out of interest, am i the only person currently concerned about brads form? iv left it a while as he's been coming back from injury but im starting to get a little worried by his lack of "voth like" activites :?

on a side note i think i should also point out i think our 3rd line is fantastic so much so im starting to wonder whether our 2nd line is actually our 3rd :?: there much more of a threat to the opposition in my opinion and seem to be our best defensive unit to!
I agree with you, I didnt want him back with the devils this year..as our main "enforcer" he doesnt play physical enough to get the team motivated when needed. How many fights has he had this year? Not enough for an enforcer. Yes the team are doing well. But i would much rather see a fight in a game rather than a 12-0 win like last week against hull. I personally find those kind of games boring.
 

rolf

Active Member
#3
he seemed ok to me on sunday when he got 2+10 for a check from behind for his perfectly good hit to my one biased eye..........he also potted a lovely wrist shot goal t'other week so that's all good in my book. he may be a week away from droppin the gloves, but then we have the "modfather" to help with some of that. not sure what else he should be doing here?

i do acknowledge that our second line is behind one and three in scoring recently, leastways that's how it feels to me without checking the stats, but i'm sure somebody will do that and prove me wrong.

rolf
(still feeling skanked on them tickets)
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#4
Spatzy said:
jimmy snels said:
just out of interest, am i the only person currently concerned about brads form? iv left it a while as he's been coming back from injury but im starting to get a little worried by his lack of "voth like" activites :?

on a side note i think i should also point out i think our 3rd line is fantastic so much so im starting to wonder whether our 2nd line is actually our 3rd :?: there much more of a threat to the opposition in my opinion and seem to be our best defensive unit to!
I agree with you, I didnt want him back with the devils this year..as our main "enforcer" he doesnt play physical enough to get the team motivated when needed. How many fights has he had this year? Not enough for an enforcer. Yes the team are doing well. But i would much rather see a fight in a game rather than a 12-0 win like last week against hull. I personally find those kind of games boring.
Let's just get some perspective here....I would much rather a 12-0 win (ok that is extreme but definitely a 3-0 win) and we lost every fight. Whilst Vother isn't racking up the points like years gone by we do have a different dimension to our team now (which I appreciate you are acknowledging). The fuss isn't about Voth any more, teams fear us because we can play a bit as well. Purely hypothetical, if we did replace the big man, who's to say the lines would still function as well as they have been this season? He brings 'something' (quite a lot I feel) to the team and that 'something' may not be as obvious or in your face as before but it's definitely having a positive impact on the balance of the team.
 

James

Administrator
#5
Take a gander at the Braehead forums. They were all very impressed. Remember we've been watching Voth for 5-6 years now, compared to their first views of him. Maybe we have just become accustomed to his play.
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#6
Spatzy said:
I agree with you, I didnt want him back with the devils this year..as our main "enforcer" he doesnt play physical enough to get the team motivated when needed. How many fights has he had this year? Not enough for an enforcer. Yes the team are doing well. But i would much rather see a fight in a game rather than a 12-0 win like last week against hull. I personally find those kind of games boring.

And you didnt. Sawyer was our number 1 enforcer.


Have we looked less motivated this year? I dont think so.

What have fights got to do with it? we have been winning games. WE havent needed a scrap.

9 points in 17 games inst great and I sure would like to see a few more points on the board from the big guy. I would hazard a guess his +/- has been pretty good though.

A few seasons people have been on his back for taking stupid penalties and not adjusting his game. well he's adjusted his game this year and is contributing to this team from what I can see. I certainly dont think its hampering us as a team and until it does I hope the big man carries on doing what he's doing.
 
#7
I can see your concerns, but as long as all of the team are finishing their checks and the cohesion continues, then he is a fantastic insurance policy :)

do the team really need to get into the physical scrapes to win? We're lucky he hasn't been legislated or hounded out of the league as it is. I think his play is improving and will welcome a few of his "finer" perfomances once his hand has healed correctly
 
#8
Dont you guys miss the old vother antics though? we all love a bit of drama on ice. I love to see our team score goals and win as much as the next guy, but wouldnt you like to see vother go on the rampage once in a while? haha maybe its that bench clearance in cov thats got me in the fighting mood
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#9
E.D.S. said:
Let's just get some perspective here....I would much rather a 12-0 win (ok that is extreme but definitely a 3-0 win) and we lost every fight. Whilst Vother isn't racking up the points like years gone by we do have a different dimension to our team now (which I appreciate you are acknowledging). The fuss isn't about Voth any more, teams fear us because we can play a bit as well. Purely hypothetical, if we did replace the big man, who's to say the lines would still function as well as they have been this season? He brings 'something' (quite a lot I feel) to the team and that 'something' may not be as obvious or in your face as before but it's definitely having a positive impact on the balance of the team.
Spot on EDS - this isn't about individuals, or even enforcing. It's all about the team this year - and what a team. :cool: What enforcing has he (or Craig, for that matter) needed to do? They are playing their hockey well right now, and the fans are excited by that. Why risk further unneccessary injury?
Looking closely at his personal performance, he's still doing a great job on the ice, hassling, disrupting and confusing the opposition, working the corners, making space for Finner and Phil. The 2nd line may not currently have clocked the points the other 2 lines have achieved but look at the job they do - a very difficult line to play against, getting under the opposition's skin.
Add to that his impact in the dressing room - G and Finner aren't the only players to mention that.
Brad's reputation is still intact - affectionately labelled 'the Vother' by fans everywhere, he's still being talked about.....and one player many people would want playing on their team. Luckily, he's on ours. :cool:
 
#10
I think Voth has actually been much better for his hand injury. He is concentrating on playing the game instead of mixing it up and throwing in some huge clean checks. I have noticed a few times that if Voth is chasing someone towards the end of the rink that they are getting well clear, so he is definately unnerving them, and all without a trip to the bench. Have noticed a similar reaction to Tylor as well.

The reuslts are speaking for themselves - keep it up!
 

DevilDom

Well-Known Member
#12
I think he has been ok without being spectacular - however that is the 2nd (or is it now the 3rd) line as a whole.

I would like to see some more physicality without the stupidity (e.g. on Sunday when we needed something to get both the crowd and the team going it was Tylor that threw 2 big checks). I'm not talking fighting for the sake of fighting - just some good old fashioned Vother rampaging!

It would be interesting to know how many points (per game) the 2nd line has scored since Voth's return from injury and compare that to how many scored when he was out and Ben took his place. It may be just my perception but it seemed like they scored more points with Ben than Brad.
 

Koop11

Well-Known Member
#14
I don’t think Voth is playing his best hockey but after sustaining what would have been a very painful injury and having surgery I don’t think a point every other game is too bad considering the circumstances. The whole of the 2nd line appears a little quiet at the moment so I’m not sure we can point the finger at just him.

With regard to enforcing, well Sawyer was brought in to be our number one enforcer and of course since his departure Voth has been recovering from his surgery.

I hope for more off Voth as the season goes on but I’m fine with how the team is playing overall and Voth is playing his part in all that so long may it continue.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#15
DevilDom said:
I think he has been ok without being spectacular - however that is the 2nd (or is it now the 3rd) line as a whole.

I would like to see some more physicality without the stupidity (e.g. on Sunday when we needed something to get both the crowd and the team going it was Tylor that threw 2 big checks). I'm not talking fighting for the sake of fighting - just some good old fashioned Vother rampaging!

It would be interesting to know how many points (per game) the 2nd line has scored since Voth's return from injury and compare that to how many scored when he was out and Ben took his place. It may be just my perception but it seemed like they scored more points with Ben than Brad.
I take your point DevilDom but for me you'd have to compare the points across the team not just the second line, then you'd have to look at the teams we've played during Voth's time out and his time in the team. Basically there are so many variables that could account for more points/wins during his time in or out that it virtually becomes null and void. Apprecaite this is a bit airy fairy but I would just prefer to look at the balance of the team with Voth in it. We're not the finished article by any strectch but you've got to admit we look stronger than ever before and for me that starts with having Voth in the team. He's a presence and that presence brings a hole host of benefits that have already been lauded on to Voth. I loved how Ben stepped up and how well that line did with him there but the team as a whole wasn't the same. I'm not dismissing your point DevilDom, I just think that looking at one set of stats (whilst interesting) wouldn't really give us the full picture.
 
#16
I'm with DevilDom on this one, the second line is ineffective due the drop off in pace of Brads game. I feel its affecting the line as a whole. I was glad to see Ben get a shot back on that line Sunday (after the obvious check from behind) as he can get behind the D and cause disruption at this time brad is not quick enough to get behind and thus not causing chances. If you look at the production in regards to points since brad has come back Phils points have dropped right off and Im sure thats frustrating for him . Just my opinion before the Brad for President lot freak out.
 

jimmy snels

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #17
i'll just clarify, im not advocating fighting for the sake of it, i just think he's not exactly been throwing checks everywhere (one a game?) and if he's not going to play as a power forward i dont know whether he's passing the puck well enough or scoring enough, YET!! just out of interest has it fully healed his hand? after watching the last few games i just feel he's been spewing the puck alot. one thing he does need to do more of in my opinion which doesnt effect his hand is plant himself infront of the opposition net minder! he's massive and shouldnt be anywhere else (especially on PP) but the net!

anyhow im glad iv started a good debate :)
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#18
sniper13 said:
I'm with DevilDom on this one, the second line is ineffective due the drop off in pace of Brads game. I feel its affecting the line as a whole. I was glad to see Ben get a shot back on that line Sunday (after the obvious check from behind) as he can get behind the D and cause disruption at this time brad is not quick enough to get behind and thus not causing chances. If you look at the production in regards to points since brad has come back Phils points have dropped right off and Im sure thats frustrating for him . Just my opinion before the Brad for President lot freak out.


For what its worth the second line has scored points in 6 of our last 7 games I believe. And we havent been conceeding. So I dont see production of points being that much of an issue for it.
 
#19
For what its worth, is there anything wrong with wanting more from one of the highest paid players in the team?. Yes we are winning but down the stretch will Brads form be affecting us who knows (god forbid) we pick up a few knocks and that forces us to use him on a different line and cause an imbalance?
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#20
sniper13 said:
For what its worth, is there anything wrong with wanting more from one of the highest paid players in the team?. Yes we are winning but down the stretch will Brads form be affecting us who knows (god forbid) we pick up a few knocks and that forces us to use him on a different line and cause an imbalance?
Not at all I guess I was just pointing out that while maybe not points from him personally, the line itself seems to be working ok in the points department. I thought it was a point that could add to the debate.
 
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