Toughness ......

Discussion in 'Cardiff Devils & EIHL chat' started by kingmo19.1, Apr 14, 2018.

  1. Paul Sullivan

    Paul Sullivan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,186
    Likes Received:
    229
    I'll be honest, I don't buy into Belfast being tougher than us at all. My personal opinion is that we were a team built for skill, speed, and particularly special teams. Belfast clutch, grab, hook, hold and play like it's the NHL in the mid 90's, while also having some high end skill guys (thought two or three of their best were also very heavily penalised all year).

    Now, in a regular season game when all those things get called, we have a major advantage. As the next game we played after the CC final showed. When the refs put their whistles away however, it works against us.

    So I understand why a lot of fans think they were more physical than us. I'm not saying they weren't physical, but certainly in the CC final, the circumstances of the game, shall we say, favoured them imho.
     
    Leighton likes this.
  2. Finny

    Finny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    7,181
    Likes Received:
    527
    I've no doubt that Belfast looked at us last summer and tried to copy us as best as they could.
    Promoting a hard-working, physical and popular player to coach and get him to sign a team in his mould.
    Were a major contender for the league title but eventually fell short. Won the Challenge Cup (their first silverware in several seasons) in their opponents home rink but missed out on the playoff finals.
    It's not far from being a replica of our first season under Lord.
     
    jimmy snels and Paul Sullivan like this.
  3. jimmy snels

    jimmy snels Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,478
    Likes Received:
    159
    toughness wise i think personally we could easily trade up on paris to a tougher D man and on forwards i believe we could carry 1 additional tougher player but who was a genuine pk expert. my choice to change would be crowder but thats just me but that would be for someone more like a farayna than a genuine out and out fighter. we must also remember we basically had this in lord but he's gone now from the roster so i guess we could just be replacing him if that makes sense.
    I know im likely to cop it for naming a few players, but this is a forum in the off season so im throwing it out there.

    obviously all of this is if lordo wants to go that way. not saying it would work better or worse just saying we could make our great team slightly tougher if we wanted without losing the control and skill
     
  4. Wagstaff

    Wagstaff Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2012
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    230
    I liked Paquette on our team, but he was sloppy with his hits and that got him a lot of time off, then his fight with Springer or Erhardt (can’t remember which) he ended up in a fish bowl and time out again, but tough as nails and quite a good player who would rile the opposition, he did have a few games where he tore through the opposition and showed some great skill. But on balance he cost us dearly too often.
    With Faryna you had everything Paquette brought but didn’t lose time for silly mistakes
     
    Devil_Abroad likes this.
  5. E.D.S.

    E.D.S. Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2008
    Messages:
    705
    Likes Received:
    233
    I think the toughness debate is dead, in terms of needing an enforcer. I know it’s been frustrating at times but look at what we’ve won with our style. Give me a Faryna, Louis and Batch over a Fitzy, Rosehill and Gagnon... and give me the trophies!



    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    SteelerBlade, Finny and Devil_Abroad like this.
  6. kingmo19.1

    kingmo19.1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    326
    Likes Received:
    223
    I want, I want, I want :p
     
  7. Mike Ware's Office

    Mike Ware's Office Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    80
    Likes Received:
    39
    Personally I would like some real intimidation factor in our team, not saying at the cost of lots of minutes in the bin may I add.
    How many people get up off their seats when Faryna decides to go with an opposition player as opposed to getting up off their seats when the same player's on a one to one with the opposition netminder? the whole rink is up when their's gonna be a fight, they happen less often now but sometimes a tough nut is needed to teach the opposition the error of their ways when they take liberties with our skilled players.
    I may be a minority here but still think a real tough nut makes opposition think twice, don't think we have that real tough nut atm in the team.
     
    jimmy snels likes this.
  8. Ibbz9

    Ibbz9 Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Messages:
    84
    Likes Received:
    8
    The out-and-out enforcer role has gone from hockey in the NHL. It is creeping out across most leagues. Devils have a tough team, but the biggest fear factor is the powerplay. I bet that part of the opposing team's plan is to not take needless penalties against the Devils due to the success of their PP. Nobody on the team is intimidated by Gagnon, Fitzgerald, Paquette etc. If they were, guys like Martin, Benti, Pope, Ulmer would go nowhere near the corners or the slot.
    If the Devils had one of those type of players, yes there would be more fights, but at what cost?
    Look at the history of the team with guys like MacWilliam, Ware, Voth, Maxwell plus many more. Great to watch but not too many trophies. The current set up is about trophies.
    I think the balance is spot on with the current team. Guys that can all play and contribute, with a handful that can fight if needed.
     
    RTfarty and Devil_Abroad like this.
  9. Wannabe2

    Wannabe2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,312
    Likes Received:
    861
    No one likes watching hockey fights more than me, it was a huge factor in me getting hooked in the first place, but this years team for me was pure value for money. My opinion, fast, skilfull, entertaining, and as tough as they had to be when needed, chuck 3 trophies into the mix and it’s certainly.
    HAPPY HOCKEY DAYS.
     
    Finny likes this.
  10. jimmy snels

    jimmy snels Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2009
    Messages:
    2,478
    Likes Received:
    159
    as long as we are winning it will be ok to not be the most physical of teams. personally i was surrounded by very unhappy fans at our lack of phyisical play when we had that poor run around October. when we started winning regularly that dropped off a bit but there were still murmers when bowns got ran a few times about people not doing anything. i didnt see us as a physical team in any way but we were far better at hockey than the rest!
    id like a couple of tougher players next year to supplement the skill but appreciate others might not.

    what i will say is a number of our team are around mid 30s so id expect at least a couple of changes so lets see what it brings. we all know haddad and martin are signed already but elsewhere im not sure!
     
  11. Devil_Abroad

    Devil_Abroad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    257
    Nope, I didn’t know.

    Did I miss something?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  12. zoesdevil

    zoesdevil Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    32
    Look at Bordy for example, nobody messed with us when he was in the team or took liberties, he hit like a train, took hardly any penalties & we still won the league!!
     
    jimmy snels likes this.
  13. Gaz G

    Gaz G Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    1,105
    Likes Received:
    62
    And people moaned that he didn't fight enough.
     
    Finny and zoesdevil like this.
  14. Wannabe2

    Wannabe2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    8,312
    Likes Received:
    861
    Did I also.?????
     
  15. zoesdevil

    zoesdevil Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    32
    Yes but his presence enough stopped a lot of what happened to us this season just gone in quite a few games.
     
  16. RTfarty

    RTfarty Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2008
    Messages:
    152
    Likes Received:
    46
    I thought most teams figured Bordy out pretty quickly.. he certainly had an effect on opposition players in the sense that they knew he was on the ice, but his hits were easily avoided as was actually fighting him.

    The money to bring in someone like Bordy can be better spent on someone who can contribute to special teams and points on the board, whilst playing a physical game.

    Would you rather have a Craig Weller/Paul Bissonnette or a Bordy/McGrattan? The answer should be obvious.
     
  17. CaldicotDevil

    CaldicotDevil Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2018
    Messages:
    45
    Likes Received:
    22
    Bordy wasn't all that. He was on big bucks to enforce but when Bownsy got run he didn't do anything. He only fought Keefe because Keefe jumped him to object for a hit on his teammate. He only fought Klotz because Klotz gave him a cheap shot with his stick the game before. The other enforcers round at the time were his old mate Mcgrattan and Fitzy. When he did offer Fitzy to go Sheffield were winning and had momentum so there was no need for him to go, hence why Fitzy started doing that odd chicken dance. He played decent minute and had a poor points return. He did put in decent checks but because of this his shifts were short frustrating for the guys on his line. This also reduced the rest time of our other lines.

    Start of the year the we had high energy and checking 4th line of Moore and Batch. Both players can play hockey and Batch is a tough cookie who can drop the gloves with most. If Moore & Batch will be signed and this line can reform then this is a much better option than a jaded ex NHLer.

    Also worth noting Belfast had Kurtz & Panthers had Gagnon and they still suffered cheap shots.
     
    Johnnybravo1927 likes this.
  18. Devil_Abroad

    Devil_Abroad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    257
    Some of the worst hits on Bowns happened the year we had Bordeleau

    Granted teams in general did not take any liberties that year (maybe in Belfast) but neither did they this year

    Still don’t agree we need to be tougher. Guess the only way we’d come to agreement is if the players expressed their views.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  19. Devil_Abroad

    Devil_Abroad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2014
    Messages:
    2,088
    Likes Received:
    257
    What happened to us this season that was different to last?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  20. zoesdevil

    zoesdevil Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    811
    Likes Received:
    32
    I thought we were bullied in quite a few games, especially the CC final where Martinelli was getting away with everything.
     

Share This Page