Six Nations to be played behind closed doors

[Finny]

Anyway, another big drop in case numbers today (albeit Sunday data) but we're now past the point where we'd expect to see the continued rise in cases that areas of England have seen.
I know it's an awkward point on here, but it does appear that Drakeford's restrictions have worked better than expected.

We should see over the coming week whether Hospitalisations continue to drop and whether there is any increase in cases to Schools going back.
If things continue like this we might see in Friday's briefing a provisional date for the relaxation of restrictions. I think the 21st might be too early due to the lag in hospitalisations/deaths but potentially 28th/start of February for the return of spectators.

 

[RedDevil17]

I know it's an awkward point on here, but it does appear that Drakeford's restrictions have worked better than expected.

I figured you’d say that…

 

[bb1]

I don’t care if people have or haven’t had the vaccine, personal choice as far as I’m concerned.

I think the hate from some, stems from the fact that we are only putting our lives on hold with lockdowns / restrictions to protect the NHS. The unvaccinated, will be the reason we have restrictions for longer or at all, because they will be primarily the people who “over run” the health service. Which a lot of people deem selfish and that’s where the resentment grows from.

I'm vaccinated and just had covid so I am not in any way an anti vaxer.

I have to say that your statement is very poorly worded. The reason the NHS is over run is due to obesity, lifestyle such as smoking and alcohol. My wife works in critical care and this is what she has seen since she has worked in the medical profession. So to think it will be the fault of people who have not had the vaccine that we are in lockdowns is a complete load of crap I am afraid and that point of view will become damaging further down the line as people have been brainwashed to believe it.

 

[Finny]

I figured you’d say that…

Do you have another explanation as to why case rates have fallen quicker than in England and why hospitalisations are much lower?

 

[Rempel16]

Do you have another explanation as to why case rates have fallen quicker than in England and why hospitalisations are much lower?

Yes the rates may have fallen more quickly, but at what economic cost, and how much are the paying public going to have to stump up in future taxes that will be required to chase the deficit caused by restrictions?

I look at England and see that they've ridden it out, stayed economically stable and still managed to keep hospitality open.

Their rates and hospitalisations haven't reached unsustainable levels, so regardless of whose rates have lowered more quickly - on overall balance England have it right. Therefore, Drakeford has it wrong.

 

[Jonesy83]

I'm vaccinated and just had covid so I am not in any way an anti vaxer.

I have to say that your statement is very poorly worded. The reason the NHS is over run is due to obesity, lifestyle such as smoking and alcohol. My wife works in critical care and this is what she has seen since she has worked in the medical profession. So to think it will be the fault of people who have not had the vaccine that we are in lockdowns is a complete load of crap I am afraid and that point of view will become damaging further down the line as people have been brainwashed to believe it.

i don’t disagree in anything you say about obesity, alcohol, smoking….lifestyle choices etc…BUT the only thing that is being concentrated on right now is Covid, no one is having an operation cancelled because someone is obese.
Operations and other care / ambulance services are getting cancelled or taking a lot long because of covid. Which again circles back to my point of resentment same may have towards unvaccinated people.
Maybe read what post my reply was directed to before stating things are poorly worded.
Lifestyle choices have been a problem in this and other countries for decades, we’ve never had a lockdown or had to live with restrictions because of them (would the NHS be better if people took better care of themselves of course, no brainer).If my reply was to a comment about lifestyle issues it would have been worded in reply to that.

 

[Finny]

Yes the rates may have fallen more quickly, but at what economic cost, and how much are the paying public going to have to stump up in future taxes that will be required to chase the deficit caused by restrictions?

I look at England and see that they've ridden it out, stayed economically stable and still managed to keep hospitality open.

Their rates and hospitalisations haven't reached unsustainable levels, so regardless of whose rates have lowered more quickly - on overall balance England have it right. Therefore, Drakeford has it wrong.

"You can't put a price on a life"
Oh, you can for political points scoring it seems.

I'm not sure what level you would class "unsustainable" but when staff are being asked to work longer shifts and come in on their days off, the army are drafted in to help and when some NHS trusts put out please for volunteers to help - I personally wouldn't class that as sustainable.

 

[august04 2.0]

Do you have another explanation as to why case rates have fallen quicker than in England and why hospitalisations are much lower?

Vaccination rates in Wales are higher than in England and the booster shot has given very good protection from serious illness, so surely you’d expect Wales hospitalisation rates to be lower than England? And I’m sure the extra restrictions helped this position too but as Rempel stated, at what cost to Welsh businesses and were they really needed? Sturgeon talking today about learning to live with virus and restrictions ending, so hopefully her little Welsh poodle will follow her lead, as he seems to have done throughout the pandemic.

 

[Finny]

Vaccination rates in Wales are higher than in England and the booster shot has given very good protection from serious illness, so surely you’d expect Wales hospitalisation rates to be lower than England? And I’m sure the extra restrictions helped this position too but as Rempel stated, at what cost to Welsh businesses and were they really needed? Sturgeon talking today about learning to live with virus and restrictions ending, so hopefully her little Welsh poodle will follow her lead, as he seems to have done throughout the pandemic.

But what was the cost to business?
I've asked this several times but nobody seems to even be able to give a rough figure.
Do you work in retail or hospitality?

 

[Rempel16]

"You can't put a price on a life"
Oh, you can for political points scoring it seems.

I'm not sure what level you would class "unsustainable" but when staff are being asked to work longer shifts and come in on their days off, the army are drafted in to help and when some NHS trusts put out please for volunteers to help - I personally wouldn't class that as sustainable.

Doesn't everyone put a price on life? If you don't then you must live in a bubble permanently.

Well has the NHS collapsed? No it hasn't.

 

[august04 2.0]

"You can't put a price on a life"
Oh, you can for political points scoring it seems.

I'm not sure what level you would class "unsustainable" but when staff are being asked to work longer shifts and come in on their days off, the army are drafted in to help and when some NHS trusts put out please for volunteers to help - I personally wouldn't class that as sustainable.

The armed forces responded to a particularly serious level of hospitalisations in London, where only 62% of the population had received a second dose and 39% had received a booster. We're not in that position in Wales, which is why we haven’t seen similar hospitalisation rates here. The situation is just not comparable thankfully.

 

[Devil94]

Sturgeon talking today about learning to live with virus and restrictions ending, so hopefully her little Welsh poodle will follow her lead, as he seems to have done throughout the pandemic.

Not that it matters, but Drakeford announced the restrictions first, as he did with the fire break lockdown and christmas 2020 restrictions. So you're wrong again, sorry.

 

[Rempel16]

Not that it matters, but Drakeford announced the restrictions first, as he did with the fire break lockdown and christmas 2020 restrictions. So you're wrong again, sorry.

And Sturgeon is about to lift restrictions on outdoor sport, recognising that the restrictions were too strong for the perceived threat of this variant.

 

[Finny]

The armed forces responded to a particularly serious level of hospitalisations in London, where only 62% of the population had received a second dose and 39% had received a booster. We're not in that position in Wales, which is why we haven’t seen similar hospitalisation rates here. The situation is just not comparable thankfully.

So hospitalisations in England weren't at unsustainable levels. Except in London where they were. But London doesn't count even though it is part of England.

I think your post illustrates quite well the difference between the Welsh and English governments.
The Welsh government are precautionary. Spotting potential problems and putting into place actions to cope as best as possible.
The English government are reactionary. They wait until there is a problem and then act. Which tends to cost more both in terms of tax payers money and in lives. They would have known that London had a low rate of vaccination as Omnicron arrived here but chose to do nothing about it until it was too late.

 

[Finny]

And Sturgeon is about to lift restrictions on outdoor sport, recognising that the restrictions were too strong for the perceived threat of this variant.

She's said nothing of the sort. Her full announcement is in half an hour but she's expected to say that because the restrictions did work they are able to start relaxing restrictions.

 

[Rempel16]

She's said nothing of the sort. Her full announcement is in half an hour but she's expected to say that because the restrictions did work they are able to start relaxing restrictions.

Well she's hardly going to admit that her initial decision was wrong. She's a politician.

 

[august04 2.0]

But what was the cost to business?
I've asked this several times but nobody seems to even be able to give a rough figure.
Do you work in retail or hospitality?

I don’t work in retail or hospitality, no. Does it really matter that nobody here can give you a rough figure now? And it’s too soon to say anyway. I suspect we'll get a better idea when the restrictions are over and people can then assess the full damage done, if their businesses are indeed still open. You don’t need to be a genius to figure out they’ve been badly effected by these additional restrictions. Just read or watch the news every night - businesses are crying out for support. They’re not getting enough from the WG to cover these the losses that the restrictions are bringing, nor are they getting it quickly enough - although Eluned Morgan did say today that it “was coming in the next few weeks”. Just an example, but there's a piece on Wales Online today about the City Arms in Cardiff, who will lose £50K if the restrictions continue and rugby matches played behind closed doors. That's in addition to the circa £50K they have already lost in the run up to Christmas. That’s a busy rugby pub and would be packed when Cardiff play too, so not just being effecting by any potential ban on Welsh supporters in the Six Nations. That’s just one example. It’s being reported everywhere and I’ve seen it with my own eyes - that Welsh hospitality venues have been much quieter over the Christmas/New Year period, which would normally be packed at that time. And proceeds from that period help keep these places going in the quieter Jan/Feb months.

 

[august04 2.0]

So hospitalisations in England weren't at unsustainable levels. Except in London where they were. But London doesn't count even though it is part of England.

I think your post illustrates quite well the difference between the Welsh and English governments.
The Welsh government are precautionary. Spotting potential problems and putting into place actions to cope as best as possible.
The English government are reactionary. They wait until there is a problem and then act. Which tends to cost more both in terms of tax payers money and in lives. They would have known that London had a low rate of vaccination as Omnicron arrived here but chose to do nothing about it until it was too late.

I didn’t make the unsustainable comment, so don’t get arsey with me on that. They were in London, yes. That’s why the army were brought in. And as I stated, London's vaccination rates were much lower than in Wales (and other parts of England too), so hardly surprising that they had problems there which we haven’t had here. Seeing what happened in London in the first few weeks of Omicron and expecting that to happen in Wales was never likely.

 

[BostonBart22]

Scots outdoor restrictions being lifted monday with a capacity of 500... that includes football and six nations...Scots looking at indoor events from 24th January.. no doubt Drakeford will follow suit.

 

[august04 2.0]

Not that it matters, but Drakeford announced the restrictions first, as he did with the fire break lockdown and christmas 2020 restrictions. So you're wrong again, sorry.

Probably best not to highlight the Oct 20 firebreak in Wales - it’s implementation and aftermath here were an unmitigated disaster. Even Sturgeon thought better than to implement that one! You’ll find the odd exception granted but the general rule throughout is that we’ve gone down the same route as Scotland, but a few weeks later. I don’t think many would argue with that assessment.