Should Franny's number 29 be retired?

Thread starter #1
Just a thought I had this morning, after 400+ games and giving up alot of his time for training and games (whilst holding down a full-time job), does anyone agree that Franny should be honoured with his jersey number being raised to the roof?

He has shown such commitment to the Devils for a number of years, presumably not being a massive earner too, that I think to let him just retire without any recognition of his services wouldn't be fair. Opinions.......

Max
 
#2
Does anyone know what teams tend to take into account when retiring numbers?

If it takes into account commitment and number of years with the club / on and off-ice activites etc, then i'd definitely say his number should be retired. However, it seems most players who have their numbers retired are the one's who were the best players in the team - scored the most goals, exceptional stats etc
 
#3
I think he deserves to have his number retired, he has shown great commitment to the club over the years and deserves to be given some sort of recognition for it as you say. I don't think having your shirt retired is to do with how good a player you were for the team, more a recognition of what you have done for them.
 
#4
I think it's more likely Franny will be inducted into the 'hall of fame' (if one ever starts, see the other thread) rather than have his shirt retired. Very Very few players get their shirt numbers retired.
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#5
Frannies shirt should defo be included in to the rafters, as should Stoney when he retires. Its not just about who were the best players, but there services to the club. Is a good goal scorer over 3-4 yrs a better player, or servant over a guy who gives his all and loyalty over 10-15 yrs +, myself i dont think so.thats my take on the subject.
 
#6
I wasn't suggesting a good player should have his shirt retired over one that has been loyal to the club - but I was just suggesting that maybe that's the way it seems to work. I agree that Stoney's shirt should also be retired... when he retires. Anyone know if anythings been arranged with the testimonial - potential date?
 
#7
Wannabe2 said:
Frannies shirt should defo be included in to the rafters, as should Stoney when he retires. Its not just about who were the best players, but there services to the club. Is a good goal scorer over 3-4 yrs a better player, or servant over a guy who gives his all and loyalty over 10-15 yrs +, myself i dont think so.thats my take on the subject.
+1, agree with both of these guys being honored... both awarded for services to the Devils.
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#8
Brian Dickson played 3 seasons for the Devils, when Brian unfortunately passed away, due to a accident, the Devils retired his shirt as a sign of respect to the man. hence there are different circumstances for the reason to retire a mans shirt.
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#9
a desicion to raise Franny's shirt to the roof would imo divide a few people depending on what their own criteria for retireing a shirt is.

My own opinion is that i think if the club decided to honour Francis in that way i could certainly see why. One of the first local boys to make a real difference to our club, only left it when he was told he wasnt being retained and has many Devils winners medals. Looking back at a few old DVD's recently i feel Franny was one of the casualties of the ISL at its inception.



I think it would be a nice gesture considering that Franny is still a big part of the club for the coming season.
 

Pleximan

Active Member
#10
Should Francis' #29 be retired? Absolutely not!

People go on about his 400+ games, and that is a good achievement. But British players can rack up the 100, 200, 300+ games because they are a commodity that is absolutely neccassary in the British game. Only during the Superleague era did Brits like Francis not get a roster space at a top level club because there was no rule about minimum number of Brits, and so teams loaded up with much better import players because they could.
Since Superleague, Brits must be on the roster by order of the Elite League, so those guys can get their number of games right up there after only a few seasons. With the number of games in a season effectively 50+ (maybe more) including all cup competitions, it is just not that difficult to rack up the games, especially when you only get a few shifts a game for most of the seasons you are on the roster, so the chances of obtaining injuries are greatly reduced as compared to an import who plays far more ice time. Hence, Francis racks up 400+ games.

Now I am sure that people will come up with all sorts of flowery excuses to retire a players jersey, but for me with the exception of Brian Dickson's already retired #14, a players jersey should be retired on his exceptional playing contribution to the club.

#29 was simply not a very good player, he was okay, and even good in his last year playing, but generally below average overall. Did Sheffield, Nottingham, Belfast, Coventry ever want to sign him at any time? No!
His game was generally based around occasional 3rd line quick shifts to harrass the opposition(it certainly wasn't his point scoring), and he invariably took silly penalties for a late hit, or retaliation off the puck, and left the Devils shorthanded. It is simply a fact that he was just not very good, and the idea that the flowery people on this forum want to retire his jersey is just utterly ridiculous.

Retire Jason Stone #10? Maybe there is a more solid argument there as he has played 1000+ games and has played plenty of decent ice time in the bulk of them. But I personally don't think his playing ability really warrants a jersey retirement.

Maybe we could retire all the players jersey numbers within the next 5 years, and then move to a new lettering system, as all the numbers will be hanging in the rafters!
Retiring a players jersey number is a very high honour that should be given to only the creme of the talented players to contribute to the hockey club, and not just because they are a nice guy who says hi in the bar after contributing directly to a home defeat by giving away silly penalties.
But hey, let's retire his number!!!
 
Thread starter #11
Pleximan, I resect your opinion and you're very entitled to it. However, you're not exactly sitting on the fence, infact you seem extremely against franny having his jersey number retired.

My thoughts this morning were based on the fact that a man has put so much time and effort into helping the Devils for very little financial reward. He clearly loves the club, seems a true gent to those who have met him, and has always given 100%. He has represented the club for over a decade and played hundreds of games.

You argument about Franny not being the most skilled player is granted, I reckon Franny would even give you that one, but to be soooo dead against it baffles me.

Yea sure, he hasn't had as much ice time as some of the bigger name players but Ice Hockey is a team sport, and without people like Franny grinding opposition down on the 3rd line, the 'big name players' couldn't have their breathers before returning for there next shift.

Like I say, i respect your opinions and I'm sure other share the same views as you. How you can be so against it though is what i don't understand. Do you not acknowledge that he deserves some kind of recognition for the commitment during his playing career at all, or is it purely the reirement of his number your against?

I'd look forward to hearing your response.

Cheers, Max
 

Pleximan

Active Member
#12
Max Beerbarrell said:
Pleximan, I resect your opinion and you're very entitled to it. However, you're not exactly sitting on the fence, infact you seem extremely against franny having his jersey number retired.

My thoughts this morning were based on the fact that a man has put so much time and effort into helping the Devils for very little financial reward. He clearly loves the club, seems a true gent to those who have met him, and has always given 100%. He has represented the club for over a decade and played hundreds of games.




Cheers, Max
I have not sat on the fence, no. Well done for spotting that.
But let me please understand you here - you have asked for responses to your original question, but now you don't like it when some responses do not match your own opinion??

The fact that he put so much time and effort for very little financial reward IS the reason he was able to rack up 400+ games playing no more than 10 minutes total in the majority of those games.
If he had actually demanded a contract with better a salary, then he would have simply disappeared into EDL/ED1 years ago, which is his level. Would you say to your employer, "I will work for free because I love it here"?
He was simply not good enough no matter which way you want to cut the cake.

Yes I am dead against it!!
I have lost count over the years of how many occasions where #29 had taken stupid undisciplined off the puck late hit/retalliation penalties that the opposition converted their powerplays from. That is how he will be remembered by a lot of people.

Not very good criteria to have your jersey number retired!
 
Thread starter #13
Pleximan said:
Max Beerbarrell said:
Pleximan, I resect your opinion and you're very entitled to it. However, you're not exactly sitting on the fence, infact you seem extremely against franny having his jersey number retired.

My thoughts this morning were based on the fact that a man has put so much time and effort into helping the Devils for very little financial reward. He clearly loves the club, seems a true gent to those who have met him, and has always given 100%. He has represented the club for over a decade and played hundreds of games.




Cheers, Max
I have not sat on the fence, no. Well done for spotting that.
But let me please understand you here - you have asked for responses to your original question, but now you don't like it when some responses do not match your own opinion??

The fact that he put so much time and effort for very little financial reward IS the reason he was able to rack up 400+ games playing no more than 10 minutes total in the majority of those games.
If he had actually demanded a contract with better a salary, then he would have simply disappeared into EDL/ED1 years ago, which is his level. Would you say to your employer, "I will work for free because I love it here"?
He was simply not good enough no matter which way you want to cut the cake.

Yes I am dead against it!!
I have lost count over the years of how many occasions where #29 had taken stupid undisciplined off the puck late hit/retalliation penalties that the opposition converted their powerplays from. That is how he will be remembered by a lot of people.

Not very good criteria to have your jersey number retired!
I don't see the need for the sarcasm. And as for not liking it, you couldn't be further from the truth. I love it! Isn't that what a forum is all about? It makes things interesting, especially during a long off-season.

I felt you put a balanced argument across, I was just a bit shocked by the response if I'm honest as I'd never heard anyone with such a bad opinion of Franny - you are entitled to it however.

As a side note, I assume you must have been spitting feathers when Jay took his dumb penalty against Belfast in the play-off quarter final then if you're that against them :)

Max
 

Gaz G

Well-Known Member
#14
I think you are being exceptionally harsh there pleximan. However you are entitled to your opinion albeit a little odd in my opion. Personally i think franny's shirt should definately be retired. This is not based on playing ability by anymeans, but what franny has brought to the table over the years certainly deserves recognition. However i certainly wouldn't be rushing to raise it this year as i would be certain that if injuries, bans or anything else were to occur to a number of players, franny may well end up on the ice again.
 
#15
There's silly me living under the impression that we were trying to create a club in keeping with all the traditions of ice hockey.

Can anyone tell me where a 3/4th fourth liner, at best, has been awarded the greatest accolade a club can bestow on one of its former players? I most certainly can't.

At Cardiff we have probably retired too many numbers already but with Lawless, Moria, Hope and McEwen playing in the same era it was unavoidable.

OJ
 

Pleximan

Active Member
#16
As a side note, I assume you must have been spitting feathers when Jay took his dumb penalty against Belfast in the play-off quarter final then if you're that against them :)

Max
Max, sorry if you feel I am having a go at you, I don't mean to upset you.
This is my opinion on the matter since you canvassed for them.

Regarding Jay Latulippe's dumb penalty against Belfast in the playoffs, I was furious with him for it!!
He himself took countless stupid penalties throughout the season, and while he sat in the penalty box for his lack of discipline, he was immune for taking a -1 on the play as he was not on the ice when the opposition scored on the resulting powerplay, insead leaving his shorthanded teammates to take those.
I would not have been too disappointed had Gerad not re-signed him for this season because of his frustrating lack of discipline at times. But he is a talent and point scorer, and I only hope that Gerad has already had that long talk with him before offering him a new contract.

If Jay Latulippe can mature that side of his game and stop the self destructing silliness, then he will be a very good more rounded player this coming season. Let's hope!
 

Finny

Well-Known Member
#18
Hall Of Fame? Yes
Jersey Retirement? No

Whilst the number of games and seasons Franny has played for us is high and deserves recognition - for me it's not enough to deserve his number being retired. I think the problem we have is that we already have 5 numbers reserved and so it appears the requirements for getting a retirement are lower than they are and deserve to be.
 

august04

Well-Known Member
#20
I thought I was seeing things when the title of this thread appeared. The mind boggles at some of the tripe on here these days. I like Franny but this is one of the most ridiculous topics I've ever seen on a forum. Some of the replies in favour are from people who've been watching hockey for years, I can't believe how they can show such a complete lack of understanding of what it means in hockey terms to have the ultimate honour of a jersey retirement (on second thoughts, maybe I can!).

Don't get me wrong, Franny has done a decent job over the years and has been a good servant to the club but 90 odd points over 17 seasons (according to hockeydb and sounds about right) and very little ice time hardly warrants a jersey retirement. A presentation of a watch or a gift of some sort to show the club's appreciation but no more than that.

This thread should be closed and binned before any other people wearing the rose tinted specs embarrass themselves.
 
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