Short handed goals

Hedd Wyn John

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #1
The Devils have just conceded their 9th short handed goal in the league this season, the 2nd worst in the league I’m told. Is this an issue the Devils need to sort out? In a tight game such as the one vs the Gjants tonight it could prove very costly. Is it just down to sloppy play or are the Devils overcomitting too much at times?
 

voth26

Well-Known Member
#2
The Devils have just conceded their 9th short handed goal in the league this season, the 2nd worst in the league I’m told. Is this an issue the Devils need to sort out? In a tight game such as the one vs the Gjants tonight it could prove very costly. Is it just down to sloppy play or are the Devils overcomitting too much at times?
Unusually for us we are giving up SH goals, but we have a decent PK % then in total contrast we are first in the league for PP goals
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#4
Seem to give up SHG regularly now yet the Devils' pp is usually good.

Steelers scored 3 SHG against Panthers last week - guess it's always a danger if the team with the man advantage commit all players pressing for a goal but the recycling is not fast enough or the players are not mobile enough. Static space opens up- an opposition player on the inside edge of that will break through with an interception or receive a drop pass for a breakaway. Steelers are good at capitalising on any weakness in pp systems.
 
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Hedd Wyn John

Well-Known Member
Thread starter #5
Seem to give up SHG regularly now yet the Devils' pp is usually good.

Steelers scored 3 SHG against Panthers last week - guess it's always a danger if the team with the man advantage commit all players pressing for a goal but the recycling is not mobile enough. Static space opens up- an opposition player on the inside edge of that will break through with an interception or receive a drop pass for a breakaway. Steelers are good at capitalising on any weakness in pp systems.
3 SHG is quite something bet the Panthers were kicking themselves for that.
 

Ocko

Well-Known Member
#6
We play a 1-3-1 PP system. It's always going to cough up short handed goals. To reduce the risk we'd have to alter our entire system, which probably isn't worth doing as we currently stand as the best PP. High risk, high reward.
 
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kettdevil1

Well-Known Member
#7
We play a 1-3-1 PP system. It's always going to cough up short handed goals. To reduce the risk we'd have to alter out entire system, which probably isn't worth doing as we currently stand as the best PP. High risk, high reward.
Precisely and I also think that this would lead to lots of people moaning about our PP! As it is, I am happy with the approach taken, you always feel we have a chance when we have the man advantage
 

Russky

Well-Known Member
#8
I am of the school of thought that any team that is on PP should NEVER concede a SHG, at best its inconvenient, at worst its embarrassing! You might say its unrealistic to have this attitude but I really cant understand why the Devils have an unnerving knack of doing this and it annoys me no end. If our PK success % is so good how are the Devils conceding such goals?
 
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Ocko

Well-Known Member
#9
I am of the school of thought that any team that is on PP should NEVER concede a SHG, at best its inconvenient, at worst its embarrassing! You might say its unrealistic to have this attitude but I really cant understand why the Devils have an unnerving knack of doing this and it annoys me no end. If our PK success % is so good how are the Devils conceding such goals?
The reason we do concede is because of the 1-3-1 system we play. We basically have 1 D man. The players will swap about but essentially you only have 1 player on the blue line. This creates outlets at both posts for a pass and a 1 timer, you get the keeper working side to to side and also make it hard for the opposition to set their box PK because the zones are more spread out.

It's clearly a system that works as our PP is the best. But the reason we do concede is we are relying on 1 man for D cover. The puck skips over his stick, which happens, you're toast. The D man has to pivot and create his speed whilst the forward on the PK already has his speed and is away. Or, a turnover in the corner and you give up a 2 on 1.

One of the biggest reasons though, is the exact opposite thing people moan about - shooting too much on the PP. All the groans around the rink and the shouting of shoot does us no good. A good PK will give the point man nothing to shoot at other than bodies, fans all scream shoot, player shoots, the shot is blocked and possession given up creating a turnover on the blueline. It's usually the same people screaming shoot who moan when we give up the odd man rush on the PP because of a blocked shot. I don't think people realise how little there is to shoot from the blue line.
 

mweller

Active Member
#10
I generally agree the trade off is worth it - but in some situations you could afford a more cautious PP. for instance 2-0 up against the giants, getting a 3rd is good but conceding 1 and letting them back in is awful, so in this instance you might trade a few percent off the likelihood of scoring to greatly decrease the chance of conceding SH. But hey, probably not worth messing with - the special units were poor at the start of the season & are now one of our main assets.


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Outsider

Active Member
#11
Almost all teams use the umbrella style of PP so I don't necassarily agree with that being the reason why the Devils have the amount of shorties against. You'd have to dig deeper than just saying it's because they use the "umbrella". Did they have this many last year using the same system ? Could it be because they have a forward on the point ? Could these have been avoidable ? Are they too aggressive and sometimes try to force plays that aren't there ? Are the shorties against the same PP unit or equality spread between the 2 PP units ? I don't believe for one minute that the coach of this team thinks like the people on this post , that he'll take the PP goals and if we get a shortie against" that's ok ". It's an issue that needs to be rectified going forward.
 

Outsider

Active Member
#13
The umbrella is a 1 2 2 set up...it is different to 131..decent article here https://www.icehockeysystems.com/blog/1/1-3-1-power-play-5-options
The umbrella and the 1-3-1 are essentially the same with the top 3 forming the umbrella, how or where you place the other 2 players dictates whether it's a 1-3-1 or not. The Devils play a mixture of both . Often on the one PP unit you'll see Martin or Ullmer off the side of the net which isn't part of a 1-3-1. On the other unit with Myers, he's directly in front of the net for a screen which is not part of a 1-3-1. Point is, if you have Hotham or Fournier in the middle at the top, you'll have 2 other players down and off to the side which is the umbrella formation. You always need a player in the middle who can either be in front or move up between the hash marks, he can move according to the play . The players on the side ie Morrissette may start up by the top of the circles but will move down closer to the net, same works for the other side. You always want to isolate an opposing player which means you're trying to play a 2 on 1 in the offensive zone . Looking at the 1-3-1 that you provided, the Devils don't use that but a variation
 

Russky

Well-Known Member
#14
The reason we do concede is because of the 1-3-1 system we play. We basically have 1 D man. The players will swap about but essentially you only have 1 player on the blue line. This creates outlets at both posts for a pass and a 1 timer, you get the keeper working side to to side and also make it hard for the opposition to set their box PK because the zones are more spread out.

It's clearly a system that works as our PP is the best. But the reason we do concede is we are relying on 1 man for D cover. The puck skips over his stick, which happens, you're toast. The D man has to pivot and create his speed whilst the forward on the PK already has his speed and is away. Or, a turnover in the corner and you give up a 2 on 1.

One of the biggest reasons though, is the exact opposite thing people moan about - shooting too much on the PP. All the groans around the rink and the shouting of shoot does us no good. A good PK will give the point man nothing to shoot at other than bodies, fans all scream shoot, player shoots, the shot is blocked and possession given up creating a turnover on the blueline. It's usually the same people screaming shoot who moan when we give up the odd man rush on the PP because of a blocked shot. I don't think people realise how little there is to shoot from the blue line.
Thank you for the explanation. Its all about movement and timing of movement.
 

Devil_Abroad

Well-Known Member
#15
Is someone able to analyse who’s on the PP, the points, and their position/intension at the time of the breakaways? If there’s a pattern then that’s where you’ll find it; chances are there isn’t one. As for how many times we’re caught on the break in general play think you’ll find that’s down to our D pinching in; some regularly when the covering forward either isn’t aware or is caught up down low and can’t cover. All our D ‘pinch’ in; some do it on a 50/50 puck (Hotham often last year but not so much this) which is a HUGE risk; this is Reddick’s problem. However, at least 6 of our D recognise where and what is the offensive (and defensive) blue line; watch Paris and you’ll see that he’s constantly out of position wandering aimlessly around both ends of the ice.


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kettdevil1

Well-Known Member
#16
Is someone able to analyse who’s on the PP, the points, and their position/intension at the time of the breakaways? If there’s a pattern then that’s where you’ll find it; chances are there isn’t one. As for how many times we’re caught on the break in general play think you’ll find that’s down to our D pinching in; some regularly when the covering forward either isn’t aware or is caught up down low and can’t cover. All our D ‘pinch’ in; some do it on a 50/50 puck (Hotham often last year but not so much this) which is a HUGE risk; this is Reddick’s problem. However, at least 6 of our D recognise where and what is the offensive (and defensive) blue line; watch Paris and you’ll see that he’s constantly out of position wandering aimlessly around both ends of the ice.


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It’s knowing when to pinch that is the key as well as the positioning of the forwards. Hotham, Fournier and Reddick are all very good at jumping into the play but my view is that the first two are much better at seeing the whole ice and knowing if someone is able to cover. That in itself is a massive skill and is one of the reasons why they are two of the best D Men in the league. Having said that, it is also up to the forwards to realise when their D is jumping into the play. Too often it is Hotham, Fournier or Reddick that are criticised when in actual fact blame should be with whoever was supposed to cover....
 
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