Pride: Presumably I have missed....
- Thread starter Devils86
- Start date
I’ve no idea if I’m out of touch with all this but is the pride topic not more about changing mindsets, challenging bias be it conscious or unconscious and developing inclusive environments where people are free to be themselves and express themselves without fear of repercussion.
It isn’t about instantly demonstrating change and engagement via air lifting minorities into positions. The ideal world scenario should always be a meritocracy where people are judged on there ability over any key characteristic that can introduce bias. However there are many socio economic and cultural issues that need breaking down to allow people to reach their potential. That to me is what pride is about. Overtly challenging some of these issues and letting people in communities know they are valued.
However this is a long term project that will need to span multiple generations to create meaningful change. Some people ain’t for changing and put simply you have to wait for them to leave positions of influence and replace them with people with lower bias.
In a nutshell then just because there aren’t that many LGBT+, black or Asian players for various reasons doesn’t mean that Pride is failing. It’s a long term cultural change that you potentially won’t see truly significant change in for 10 + years. But to reach the top of the game those players have to be good enough otherwise we go into a whole other debate about positive discrimination.
It isn’t about instantly demonstrating change and engagement via air lifting minorities into positions. The ideal world scenario should always be a meritocracy where people are judged on there ability over any key characteristic that can introduce bias. However there are many socio economic and cultural issues that need breaking down to allow people to reach their potential. That to me is what pride is about. Overtly challenging some of these issues and letting people in communities know they are valued.
However this is a long term project that will need to span multiple generations to create meaningful change. Some people ain’t for changing and put simply you have to wait for them to leave positions of influence and replace them with people with lower bias.
In a nutshell then just because there aren’t that many LGBT+, black or Asian players for various reasons doesn’t mean that Pride is failing. It’s a long term cultural change that you potentially won’t see truly significant change in for 10 + years. But to reach the top of the game those players have to be good enough otherwise we go into a whole other debate about positive discrimination.
Thread starter
#27
Me too. I only asked about this year's Pride night....
Seems to have been hijacked and morphed into something far more combative. Quite unnecessary, and to aim cheap shots at people off topic etc is pathetic. Some people seem to want to start a fight for no reason
Seems to have been hijacked and morphed into something far more combative. Quite unnecessary, and to aim cheap shots at people off topic etc is pathetic. Some people seem to want to start a fight for no reason
A crazy thread I’m not involved in or started, can’t have that. So I’ll put my two pence in which will no doubt cause the People’s Party to come out in defence of the Great illustrious Leaders of the most powerful dragon head club. Which is hilariously depressing, weirdly.
The issue is the blatant lack of players “coming out” the “personal” choice defence decades ago was true, in a world that now has so much more acceptance leads to the only reasonable explanation, the world of professional sport, particularly physical sports, is culturally not as accepting as it should be. Pride Merchandise is a bit like buying recycled shopping bags, then putting them into your 4x4 and driving to Waitrose.........it’s doing nothing in sports. It’s a box ticking, corporate PR stunt, it’s a token gesture, whilst the true feelings of individuality is being suppressed, in fear. That’s still very real for many people, football still can’t progress racism, let alone homophobia. If statistics are to be relied upon, approx 8 players in the EIHL are either Gay or Bisexual. That’s just the ones who are happy to be honest, there are more who hide behind straight relationships. So l do find Batch to be a complete nut job, but on this topic, no he’s bang on the money regarding the gestures by straight people buying into the whole pride LGBTQ band wagon, it’s fashionable too. Do the Devils organisation promote or encourage their players to feel free of fear, to support any gay player, l don’t know, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, especially after seeing the owners at the Calgary Stampede
. The EIHL as a promoter of inclusivity, oh hell no, to many macho men doing macho men stuff. There’s no way...........
The issue is the blatant lack of players “coming out” the “personal” choice defence decades ago was true, in a world that now has so much more acceptance leads to the only reasonable explanation, the world of professional sport, particularly physical sports, is culturally not as accepting as it should be. Pride Merchandise is a bit like buying recycled shopping bags, then putting them into your 4x4 and driving to Waitrose.........it’s doing nothing in sports. It’s a box ticking, corporate PR stunt, it’s a token gesture, whilst the true feelings of individuality is being suppressed, in fear. That’s still very real for many people, football still can’t progress racism, let alone homophobia. If statistics are to be relied upon, approx 8 players in the EIHL are either Gay or Bisexual. That’s just the ones who are happy to be honest, there are more who hide behind straight relationships. So l do find Batch to be a complete nut job, but on this topic, no he’s bang on the money regarding the gestures by straight people buying into the whole pride LGBTQ band wagon, it’s fashionable too. Do the Devils organisation promote or encourage their players to feel free of fear, to support any gay player, l don’t know, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, especially after seeing the owners at the Calgary Stampede
. The EIHL as a promoter of inclusivity, oh hell no, to many macho men doing macho men stuff. There’s no way...........
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Just thought I would share this for people to have a read:
https://lgbtsport.cymru/cymraeg/newyddion/12-new-partnership-announced-with-cardiff-devils
So LGBT Sport are behind the Devils, so is Pride Cymru. If the LGBT community thought that the Devils Org weren't committed or genuine to their cause and using it as a PR stunt they would not back them.
My brother in-law is a 34 year old out gay, he's been open about being gay for 16 years and he thinks the Devils Pride nights are a good thing.
https://lgbtsport.cymru/cymraeg/newyddion/12-new-partnership-announced-with-cardiff-devils
So LGBT Sport are behind the Devils, so is Pride Cymru. If the LGBT community thought that the Devils Org weren't committed or genuine to their cause and using it as a PR stunt they would not back them.
My brother in-law is a 34 year old out gay, he's been open about being gay for 16 years and he thinks the Devils Pride nights are a good thing.
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Yes it’s a PR stunt, everybody has to be seen to be inclusive, no business would dare refuse to participate. No difference whether it be homophobia, fascism, racism, xenophobia whatever, we still have reports of abuse of players & officials across all sports. It’s also written into law, so it’s blatantly obvious that a club would support inclusion, yet the proof is in the pudding, ironically it doesn't change people’s attitudes, it tends to bring resentment. No individual outside of their like minded peer group will admit to breaking the law, same as no business would openly discriminate, that’s doesn’t mean the attitude has gone, they just find alternative ways to discriminate.
l fully support a persons right to not have their sexual orientation made public or discussed, with anyone. My gripe is with perception and fear, are players hiding their “personalities” for fear of club and fan intolerance and by the lack of openly gay men in a world that has openly gay Police, Armed Forces, Doctors, Nurses, Firemen and many many other professions then i‘d suggest Ice Hockey has a bit of catching up......
You only have to look at the way North American Hockey treated the Skalde‘s.........
l fully support a persons right to not have their sexual orientation made public or discussed, with anyone. My gripe is with perception and fear, are players hiding their “personalities” for fear of club and fan intolerance and by the lack of openly gay men in a world that has openly gay Police, Armed Forces, Doctors, Nurses, Firemen and many many other professions then i‘d suggest Ice Hockey has a bit of catching up......
You only have to look at the way North American Hockey treated the Skalde‘s.........
So just the one question, do you actually think that the Devils Org backed Pride just as a PR stunt to save face and not because they believe in the cause?
And this is a quote from the article of LGBT Sport “I’m delighted to take on this ambassador role" said Hotham, "LGBT Sport Cymru are doing some amazing work and it’s a cause that is very close to my heart and that I think is very important to promote.”
And this is a quote from the article of LGBT Sport “I’m delighted to take on this ambassador role" said Hotham, "LGBT Sport Cymru are doing some amazing work and it’s a cause that is very close to my heart and that I think is very important to promote.”
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You didn’t read everything l wrote in the first post did you.........
I wrote this
“Do the Devils organisation promote or encourage their players to feel free of fear, to support any gay player, l don’t know, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, especially after seeing the owners at the Calgary Stampede .
Every Tom, Dick and Harry supports Pride, how many would be happy having a close relative within that community. I’ve personal experience of people who’ve “supported” pride, to then Ghost a friend who decided to change Gender, so I’m kinda in the actions speak louder than words camp.....
Bit like Brexit too, I’ve relatives who voted to stop immigrants coming to the U.K. apparently their not racists or Xenophobic, they tell me they don’t think of me as a foreigner.........go figure, sometimes labels are easy to wear.
I wrote this
“Do the Devils organisation promote or encourage their players to feel free of fear, to support any gay player, l don’t know, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, especially after seeing the owners at the Calgary Stampede
.Every Tom, Dick and Harry supports Pride, how many would be happy having a close relative within that community. I’ve personal experience of people who’ve “supported” pride, to then Ghost a friend who decided to change Gender, so I’m kinda in the actions speak louder than words camp.....
Bit like Brexit too, I’ve relatives who voted to stop immigrants coming to the U.K. apparently their not racists or Xenophobic, they tell me they don’t think of me as a foreigner.........go figure, sometimes labels are easy to wear.
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Pride is a PR stunt.
Do the Devils organisation promote or encourage their players to feel free of fear, to support any gay player, l don’t know, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, especially after seeing the owners at the Calgary Stampede .
I await the day a Devils player or any other EIHL player stands up and announces their Pride, I won’t be holding my breath though.
Do the Devils organisation promote or encourage their players to feel free of fear, to support any gay player, l don’t know, I’d be surprised if they didn’t, especially after seeing the owners at the Calgary Stampede
.I await the day a Devils player or any other EIHL player stands up and announces their Pride, I won’t be holding my breath though.
So my view is.... I believe the EIHL, all the clubs and Devils Org do believe in supporting LGBT community and would 100% support any player BUT I believe that the player may not open up due to the fans not the organisation's.
The organisation's are saying "we support Pride and believe in it, so should you" hoping fans will join them in supporting the LGBT community but it's the fans that need to be behind it to make that change so players feel in a good place to open up to play in front of fans as an openly gay player.
Once fans are acceptant of it then I think you will see things change.
The organisation's can only do so much to back the players and cause.
The organisation's are saying "we support Pride and believe in it, so should you" hoping fans will join them in supporting the LGBT community but it's the fans that need to be behind it to make that change so players feel in a good place to open up to play in front of fans as an openly gay player.
Once fans are acceptant of it then I think you will see things change.
The organisation's can only do so much to back the players and cause.
Zach Sullivan came out as Bi after suffering with mental health issues.
“I have battled with mental health problems over this issue and with the support, understanding and acceptance from my family, friends and team-mates, I finally feel ready to say; I'm bisexual."
The fact that he suffered would suggest there is an issue why he’d left it until his health was affected. Having said that, the publicity suggests he’s received a great deal of support from his employer & team mates, hopefully that continues throughout the league and his life, although he’d be very unique in not having any “issues”.
“I have battled with mental health problems over this issue and with the support, understanding and acceptance from my family, friends and team-mates, I finally feel ready to say; I'm bisexual."
The fact that he suffered would suggest there is an issue why he’d left it until his health was affected. Having said that, the publicity suggests he’s received a great deal of support from his employer & team mates, hopefully that continues throughout the league and his life, although he’d be very unique in not having any “issues”.
Can't say l read all of this thread as there are too many massive self indulgent walls of text.
Personally, l couldn't give a stuff about pride. I fail to see the relevance of a players sexuality, it's their personal life. If they want to come out, cool. If they don't, also cool, l really don't care what they do and how they live as long as they perform on the ice and are a professional sportperson, be it straight or gay. Also, l find the rainbow Jerseys hideous to look at and l'd never buy or wear one, not because of what they represent but because of how they look just like the novelty Christmas ones. If people want to dress up like circus tents though that's also up to them.
Personally, l couldn't give a stuff about pride. I fail to see the relevance of a players sexuality, it's their personal life. If they want to come out, cool. If they don't, also cool, l really don't care what they do and how they live as long as they perform on the ice and are a professional sportperson, be it straight or gay. Also, l find the rainbow Jerseys hideous to look at and l'd never buy or wear one, not because of what they represent but because of how they look just like the novelty Christmas ones. If people want to dress up like circus tents though that's also up to them.