Potential lines?

jenks33

Well-Known Member
#61
I think here is the problem though. They are pros in terms of they are full time hockey players and certainly act the role here. However they are the equivalent of playing for Barry Town. They are normal blokes who almost made the top level. They mix with normal people, they certainly aren’t celebrities, they don’t have personal staff running their social media so they probably see every criticism and insult as a bit personal.

Outside of the 3k fans in Cardiff no one has a clue who they are in the City - and it is like that everywhere they go. I would imagine they see themselves as normal blokes doing a job - we have a very passionate fan base who live and die by their every move. Some kiss their ass on social media, some get excited about seeing them in the supermarket and some hang onto every mistake but the reality is that they probably find all of it a bit weird and are just here to do a job, earn some money and go home.
I agree with many of your points and without a doubt our players shouldn’t have to put up with abuse on twitter. It’s not something I’ve ever done or will ever do. It’s below the belt.
I do find it difficult though to bite my tongue when people get criticised for expressing their opinion on here. There’s obviously a limit but to be honest it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a post on this forum that’s below the belt. In my opinion below the belt is when somebody gets very personal about a players personality or character whilst using very colourful language. Just saying you don’t rate a player or you don’t want a player back isn’t below the belt. Some fans just don’t like to see criticism of anything that’s Devils related and I find that difficult. It just makes it very tough to have a debate if criticism isn’t allowed. Now before somebody says “constructive criticism is fine” I genuinely don’t even think that’s accepted at times.
You’re right, in hockey terms we probably are the equivalent of a Barry Town, and our players aren’t on fantastic salaries. But at the end of the day people pay good money to see these boys play. The season before last I spent at least £1,000 following the Devils home and away and I’m sure many other fans spent more than that. In no way does that give fans the right to abuse players on twitter or copy players into criticism on twitter but I do think it’s fair game to express opinions on here. It’s very easy for players to avoid the forum and I don’t even know why they’d want to come on here if I’m honest.
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#62
I agree with many of your points and without a doubt our players shouldn’t have to put up with abuse on twitter. It’s not something I’ve ever done or will ever do. It’s below the belt.
I do find it difficult though to bite my tongue when people get criticised for expressing their opinion on here. There’s obviously a limit but to be honest it’s been a long time since I’ve seen a post on this forum that’s below the belt. In my opinion below the belt is when somebody gets very personal about a players personality or character whilst using very colourful language. Just saying you don’t rate a player or you don’t want a player back isn’t below the belt. Some fans just don’t like to see criticism of anything that’s Devils related and I find that difficult. It just makes it very tough to have a debate if criticism isn’t allowed. Now before somebody says “constructive criticism is fine” I genuinely don’t even think that’s accepted at times.
You’re right, in hockey terms we probably are the equivalent of a Barry Town, and our players aren’t on fantastic salaries. But at the end of the day people pay good money to see these boys play. The season before last I spent at least £1,000 following the Devils home and away and I’m sure many other fans spent more than that. In no way does that give fans the right to abuse players on twitter or copy players into criticism on twitter but I do think it’s fair game to express opinions on here. It’s very easy for players to avoid the forum and I don’t even know why they’d want to come on here if I’m honest.
I am not sure it is the hockey criticism on forums that is the issue even though I agree with you it can be OTT at times. It is Twitter that is the issue.

Some of the comments I have seen on there (and fortunately I have not, so I'm told, seen the worst) are hurtful on a personal level and one or two threatening.

Even the players in the Dog & Fox 2nd XI football team put themselves on display and put themselves up for criticism from game to game. What no person in the public eye, however wide that public might be, puts themselves up for is personal insults and threats or directed at their friends and family. I will defend their right to defend themselves or bite back if that is the case.
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I believe those that took offence at Matt's criticism have most likely not seen the Twitter posts and thus have taken his interview comments out of context. People's reactions are different because they are human. Never forget Bryce' low level reaction - he took took himself off Twitter - and Ben even considered his future with the club. This should never happen but the three of them have called these trolls out in their different ways.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
#63
My continued complaint on here is baseless criticism. People continually reference their right to an opinion but the reality is you have a right to voice an educated viewpoint that you can stand behind with some form of fact and answer challenges to that opinion with objective argument. What you don’t have a right to is to vent personal frustration towards individuals without fact or foundation. It’s at that point you should exercise self control and keep your opinion to yourself else it’s simply bullying tactics.


The players are passionate hockey guys. They’d probably embrace an open conversation if it were kept on topic and debated fairly on fact and merit but i’d wager most fans would lose that debate through lack of insight and ignorance.

I agree the use of the word hooligan was incorrect given what that represents in the UK but reference conduct of fans towards players Pope is pretty fair in his summary. As Finny said if you’ve done nothing wrong he’s simply not talking to you.

There’s no denying Pope did not have as good a second season as first. Who knows the reasons for that. Personally when he referenced he was a physical player in his interview I disagreed as I saw him pull out of numourous hits at times last year that on face value to me seemed like unacceptable plays but if he was playing through injury then that would probably provide an answer to that. The point is did I call out Pope due to me being frustrated at what I saw from him. No. Because unless I seek out all the information around that reduced performance i’m still simply ill equipped to judge the guy fairly and sure as anything not entitled to comment on public forum or social media. I can have my opinion as i’m entitled to do but as for sharing it with others and the player himself that’s a different story.
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
#64
One thing that is for certain now, is that given the nature of the interview Pope's given, he'll be seriously under the microscope from day 1 of the new season from the more vocal fans on social media.

I wish the guy nothing but success, based on what I saw last year i'd like to see him given a more limited role on the 3rd line, where there is also a little less expectation, however if he is given a role in among the top 6 with the added ice time and responsibility that goes with then he will need to be firing on all cylinders from the off, as he's almost put a target on his back with his comments (for those people that would be inclined to fire back at him...)
 

jenks33

Well-Known Member
#65
One thing that is for certain now, is that given the nature of the interview Pope's given, he'll be seriously under the microscope from day 1 of the new season from the more vocal fans on social media.

I wish the guy nothing but success, based on what I saw last year i'd like to see him given a more limited role on the 3rd line, where there is also a little less expectation, however if he is given a role in among the top 6 with the added ice time and responsibility that goes with then he will need to be firing on all cylinders from the off, as he's almost put a target on his back with his comments (for those people that would be inclined to fire back at him...)
I agree with you. I wish Pope nothing but success but there will be a bit of pressure on him this season (As far as pressure in the EIHL goes). In my opinion he should be on the third line but if he is on the 2nd line i'll be looking for 20+ goals from him. Will be interesting to see how he gets on.
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#66
I agree with you. I wish Pope nothing but success but there will be a bit of pressure on him this season (As far as pressure in the EIHL goes). In my opinion he should be on the third line but if he is on the 2nd line i'll be looking for 20+ goals from him. Will be interesting to see how he gets on.
Let's hold fire here
It might be what we (and I mean we) want but is it what Lordo wants. Players have roles worked out with the coach which are not going to be shared with us (in the main) so even a proven scorer may have a different role as new players come in and the team dynamic changes. After all the number of assist points a player puts up can be as important as goals
 

jenks33

Well-Known Member
#67
Let's hold fire here
It might be what we (and I mean we) want but is it what Lordo wants. Players have roles worked out with the coach which are not going to be shared with us (in the main) so even a proven scorer may have a different role as new players come in and the team dynamic changes. After all the number of assist points a player puts up can be as important as goals
Yes but I'm talking about the possibility of Pope on our 2nd line. If Pope starts the season on our second line do you think it's fair to say that it's likely to be with Linglet and Dixon? Linglet is a pass first type player, Dixon is a workhorse so if Pope is on that line he will be expected to score more than 14 goals this season. I don't think it's unfair or controversial to say that. Saying a player should score 30 goals is unfair but in my opinion 20 goals should be a target (If he's on our 2nd line). Look at Belfast last season

Murphy - 39 goals
Baun - 28 goals
Riley - 33 goals
Dwyer - 25 goals
Johner - 23 goals
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#68
Yes but I'm talking about the possibility of Pope on our 2nd line. If Pope starts the season on our second line do you think it's fair to say that it's likely to be with Linglet and Dixon? Linglet is a pass first type player, Dixon is a workhorse so if Pope is on that line he will be expected to score more than 14 goals this season. I don't think it's unfair or controversial to say that. Saying a player should score 30 goals is unfair but in my opinion 20 goals should be a target (If he's on our 2nd line). Look at Belfast last season

Murphy - 39 goals
Baun - 28 goals
Riley - 33 goals
Dwyer - 25 goals
Johner - 23 goals
whilst I might agree (and I was not arguing with you) and speculation is fine. All I'm saying iscthat the team has changed and who knows what Lordo has in mind
 

jenks33

Well-Known Member
#69
whilst I might agree (and I was not arguing with you) and speculation is fine. All I'm saying iscthat the team has changed and who knows what Lordo has in mind
Totally agree. I'm sure none of us know what Lordo has in mind (Well, apart from Steve). I suppose that's one of the interesting things about a forum though, to speculate and predict what the coach might have in mind. I do maintain though that it don't think it's particularly opinionated to think our 2nd line players will probably have a target of 20 goals. I actually think Pope will be on the third line though
 

pjj365

Well-Known Member
#70
Totally agree. I'm sure none of us know what Lordo has in mind (Well, apart from Steve). I suppose that's one of the interesting things about a forum though, to speculate and predict what the coach might have in mind. I do maintain though that it don't think it's particularly opinionated to think our 2nd line players will probably have a target of 20 goals. I actually think Pope will be on the third line though
Not opinionated at all and trying to out guess the coach can be fun
 

OJLloyd

Active Member
#71
Cardiff Devils fans are truly world class at being offended about nothing.

Pope criticised those who had been, to put it in forum friendly terms, the idiots who had personally attacked him. And, I think we’re all in agreement, personal attacks are absolutely not on.

He then said that personal criticism happens a lot more here, and referenced a hooligan sports culture. Unfortunately, that is very much the view of the outside world. That’s not Pope’s fault.

Anyway. Back on topic I fully expect him to be on the Linglet line again this year with Dixon.

The interesting thing for me is that we don’t know where Batchy is going to line up this season, but I would expect him to be up front. If not I think the forward lines might be changing sooner than we think.

Having said that, I can’t be the only one excited to watch a line of Marjamaki - McNamee - Riley. That’s a big, quick unit with players who can score. Makes me feel a bit bad for calling it a ‘third’ line.
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
#72
Having said that, I can’t be the only one excited to watch a line of Marjamaki - McNamee - Riley. That’s a big, quick unit with players who can score. Makes me feel a bit bad for calling it a ‘third’ line.
You don't think Riley will start on the top line?

Where did he play last year? Was Baun, Murphy, Dwyer their top line, or was Riley up there?

Edit: IIRC Riley charged over to Scheistel after THAT hit on Murphy in the PO final, so Murphy/Riley were on the same line for sure...

There's absolutely no way a 38 goal, 46 assist in 18-19 guy starts on our THIRD line.

There is an argument for 1 or 2, as we ran a 1A and 1B last year anyway.

Just my opinion though :) I've been wrong before and speculation/difference of opinion is good!!!
 

OJLloyd

Active Member
#73
You don't think Riley will start on the top line?

Where did he play last year? Was Baun, Murphy, Dwyer their top line, or was Riley up there?

Edit: IIRC Riley charged over to Scheistel after THAT hit on Murphy in the PO final, so Murphy/Riley were on the same line for sure...

There's absolutely no way a 38 goal, 46 assist in 18-19 guy starts on our THIRD line.

There is an argument for 1 or 2, as we ran a 1A and 1B last year anyway.

Just my opinion though :) I've been wrong before and speculation/difference of opinion is good!!!
You’re absolutely right, but I just think that line would be really intimidating in our league, and fun to watch. Can you imagine having just faced the Joey line, then the Linglet line and facing the choice to put out your third D pairing against that line, or put out tired top 2 D. I wouldn’t fancy it.

In that scenario we’d have a line with the 2 Joeys and Benti/a replacement if not Benti. But it’s certainly more likely that Riley will be up top with Joey M, and Joey H on the third.
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
#74
You’re absolutely right, but I just think that line would be really intimidating in our league, and fun to watch. Can you imagine having just faced the Joey line, then the Linglet line and facing the choice to put out your third D pairing against that line, or put out tired top 2 D. I wouldn’t fancy it.

In that scenario we’d have a line with the 2 Joeys and Benti/a replacement if not Benti. But it’s certainly more likely that Riley will be up top with Joey M, and Joey H on the third.
It's a massive juggle with such a stacked top 9 (currently 8...), because if we roll 3 lines of that standard then the ice time becomes an issue and Martin etc's production would inevitably dip.

Similarly, if you go OTT on the top line and those guys play 25 minutes a night, they'll soon burn out.

The only thing that may hurt us with 3 TOP scoring lines is the development of Duggan, as the 4th line won't get a sniff i'd guess.

I wonder what way around it'll end up though; i'm sure there's a master plan in mind :) :) :)
 
#75
Benti - Martin - Riley
Linglet - Dixon - Marjamaki
Haddad - McNamee - Pope
Batch - Myers - Duggan

Fournier - new import
Louis - Reddick
Richardson - new import

I reckon these will be our lines. I can’t wait for the new season to start.
 
#76
Forward lines this weekend where

Riley, Benti, Haddad(for Martyn)
Pope, McManee, Linglet
Marj, Dixo, Duggan(I guess for Haddad)
Batch, Myers, Rutkiss(for dugs)


I think the D pairs where
Richie, Fourns
Jardine, reddick
Louis, mcmonagle
 

Gazza272

Well-Known Member
#77
Forward lines this weekend where

Riley, Benti, Haddad(for Martyn)
Pope, McManee, Linglet
Marj, Dixo, Duggan(I guess for Haddad)
Batch, Myers, Rutkiss(for dugs)


I think the D pairs where
Richie, Fourns
Jardine, reddick
Louis, mcmonagle

If Haddad goes on that Dixon and Masi line it is going to cause havoc. Can't wait!
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
#78
After watching this weekends games (what brilliant games they were by the way) I think the top line most of us had correct (85/88/25)

McNamee brings an awful lot more to the table than i'd expected, he should be the second line center.

Masi looks capable of playing up and down the lines, skates a little bit like Bordeleau (quite a gangly stature, but has excellent speed, finishes every hit, and a much better scoring touch - he will be a fan favourite this year absolutely no questions asked.

Dixon & Masi on the same line together makes sense. with Linglet - McNamee - ? as our second line

the only question on that second is i don't particularly think Haddad & Linglet would mix so well, as they are both possession guys, so maybe Pope on the second & haddad on the third.
 

Slartibartfast

Well-Known Member
#79
After watching this weekends games (what brilliant games they were by the way) I think the top line most of us had correct (85/88/25)

McNamee brings an awful lot more to the table than i'd expected, he should be the second line center.

Masi looks capable of playing up and down the lines, skates a little bit like Bordeleau (quite a gangly stature, but has excellent speed, finishes every hit, and a much better scoring touch - he will be a fan favourite this year absolutely no questions asked.

Dixon & Masi on the same line together makes sense. with Linglet - McNamee - ? as our second line

the only question on that second is i don't particularly think Haddad & Linglet would mix so well, as they are both possession guys, so maybe Pope on the second & haddad on the third.
MacNamee surprised me also. Very skilful guy and hardworking. As for Masi I would pay the entrance fee just to watch him play. Just love everything about the guy.

I also think that Dixon Masi Haddad line will be awesome. Dixon has started this season like he ended last season, hitting everything. I think we are going to see even more from him this season. Not just the physicality. I think we will see a lot more points also.
 

jimmy snels

Well-Known Member
#80
benti martin riley
linglet mcnamee haddad
masi dixon pope
duggan myres batch

thats my guess. no way is pope playing top 2 lines with those players available. can see him under pressure from duggan very quickly this year and if mosey becomes available the dynamic will change again.
masi my favourite of the weekend. looks a really good find. mcnamee looked really good as well.
 
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