Player Abuse

[OJLloyd]

I appreciate this has been discussed before, but I think it needs addressing -

There is absolutely a right to criticise a player if they aren’t playing well. Or even to express yourself publicly with regard to your opinion.

So I’m not saying don’t criticise the team, or don’t say out loud what you’re thinking.

But please, remember that these are human beings, who have feelings and emotions of their own. If you’ve had a bad day at work, you wouldn’t want to go home to have your neighbour knock the door to tell you you’re a disappointment.

The act of directly responding to a player or other person on social media, or providing an uninvited comment to them along the same lines, with abuse or criticism is the same as walking up to them in the street and telling them they were awful (except you get to do it without the ramifications that might follow, so people feel braver).

By all means, critique performances if you want, but you are not the coach, you are very unlikely to be their friend, and you certainly aren’t entitled to personally abuse anyone, so please consider that your opinions are often best left to you and your friends, or forums such as these.

 

[Kevlar68]

Its allot easier now with the internet and social media to voice your disgust where as before the abuse was aimed at the player as they played.
Its nothing new though and it happens in every sport, instead of being a anonymous voice in a crowd of people at a game its now a anonymous person behind a user name.
It won't change.

 

[OJLloyd]

It does happen in every sport, but there are some subtle, yet important, differences.

Our guys aren’t superstars with agencies running their social media, or 200k followers so the noise is drowned out.

I just think that some sort of compassion/not being an absolute muppet is necessary. People should realise the negative effect their behaviour can have on others.

 

[Kevlar68]

I agree but even kids rugby on a Sunday morning you get it from parents and I've seen it, screaming at their own kids and others.

 

[tim78]

As a Fan base these negative posts about the team are always going to have an impact on the team and not in a good way.

It's not good in the long run and we should simply rely on a good coach to make the decisions and be the person to push the bad views where and when needed. In this day criticizing players in a close knit team from the fans must feel like an overwhelming roar if they're having a bad streak and simply keep them there.

Hopefully a good run this weekend and lets start getting behind the team.

 

[RTfarty]

I think it's fair to say the fan base is getting a reputation for abuse/entitlement/toxicity. The hockey world is small, players talk, and it could certainly affect recruitment down the line.. we made our own player deactivate his Twitter account after all. Players talk about these things, a lot.

I'm not against people venting frustration and critiquing players, as paying customers I believe we all have the right to an opinion on a players performance, but it's pretty classless to flat out abuse our own players directly, especially from the safety of a phone screen. As OJLloyd said, these aren't superstars earning thousands a week, playing in a glamorous league with millions of followers to drown out the noise, they're making an OK living playing for a tight-knit organisation, in a league that half the hockey world has never heard of.

What's even more laughable, is these are generally the same 'fans' who will be first in line to have their photo taken with trophies and cosy up to players in the bar. Fortunately, for every message of abuse, there are more than enough fans willing to call them out.

 

[pjj365]

There are degrees

Did you see X miss the goal/fail to pass/happening too often these days/spark seems to missing/etc. May by OK

X is an idiot (or worse)/should be gassed/doesn't deserve his pay/etc. - extending this to family and personal life is not

 

[SteveKing]

For me, critique, banter, complaints, praise are all part of the game and part of being an invested fan. That's never going to change and nor should it. I think the thing that changes the dynamic from being a fan to being offside is taking a player's performance and equating it to that player being of poor character. Sports are volatile and unpredictable. No team or player is every going to be as good from one game to another. That's not because he's a jerk or because he doesn't care etc etc. It's because he's a person just like all of the rest of us. One thing I've learned by being slightly behind the scenes is that there are a lot of different things that go into high end athletic performance that we don't know about. Many of these players play through injuries that prevent them from being at their best but it is not disclosed. Some go through personal issues. Players also just go through times where they've lost their confidence. Even the best in the world go through it.

So cheer, curse, analyze and critique. But leave it with their game performance, not their character.

 

[Mazzoak]

Nobody should ever be abused, nobody should ever abuse.

If only........we’ve all done it in one form or another, in reality most forms are mild and we simply shrug it off, fail to acknowledge the harm it could cause or simply don’t care.
This form of social media abuse is extremely difficult to stop, victims are forced to change the way social media is used. Without a radical change in social attitudes these often uneducated, abusive opinions will continue to be voiced by people who feel entitled to. Having said that we’ve all got the ability to show several faces, ask anybody in a customer care or public relations department.

 

[jimmy snels]

For me, critique, banter, complaints, praise are all part of the game and part of being an invested fan. That's never going to change and nor should it. I think the thing that changes the dynamic from being a fan to being offside is taking a player's performance and equating it to that player being of poor character. Sports are volatile and unpredictable. No team or player is every going to be as good from one game to another. That's not because he's a jerk or because he doesn't care etc etc. It's because he's a person just like all of the rest of us. One thing I've learned by being slightly behind the scenes is that there are a lot of different things that go into high end athletic performance that we don't know about. Many of these players play through injuries that prevent them from being at their best but it is not disclosed. Some go through personal issues. Players also just go through times where they've lost their confidence. Even the best in the world go through it.

So cheer, curse, analyze and critique. But leave it with their game performance, not their character.

im glad you wrote that Steve. that's kinda where i am. its hugely poor imo to tag these guys in these posts. to be honest i dont see what it achieves either. as fan at the rink i get shouting to one of our guys "shoot", "come on, get stuck in", "you can do it", "what was that" etc. in the heat of battle lots probably is said. but to go home that night and effectively have a go at them directly is just shit.


surely if we are going to engage in abusing people directly on twitter simmsy or tom Darnell is a far better target anyway

 

[OJLloyd]

What Steve said basically, probably should have just asked him to write this!

 

[Devil94]

Tweeting about a poor performance without tagging a player would be just like talking to your mates in the bar after the game.
Tagging the player in a message like that would be like going up to the player in the bar and telling them to their face. And only an arsehole would do that.

 

[Milky]

Tweeting about a poor performance without tagging a player would be just like talking to your mates in the bar after the game.
Tagging the player in a message like that would be like going up to the player in the bar and telling them to their face. And only an arsehole would do that.

Absolutely 100% right. Couldn’t agree with that more. Sorry for the long post but just had to get this off my chest.

For the record, I think tagging a player in any social media post is rude and stupid and I’ve called people out on this in the past. It is 100% wrong. Don’t do it!

However, some of the reaction from people in the last few days has been ridiculous and dare I say it a bit hypocritical. Some people have been getting slated on twitter for commenting on their opinion of what they perceive as Matt Pope’s lack of reaction to the Mosey hit. They might have been right and they might have been wrong about what he did or didn’t do. That’s their opinion.

But they deliberately didnt didn’t tag the player in. They also commented on his performances this year compared to last year. It was a twitter conversation among a group of people.

Things like the Bownsy incident last year are bang out of order. The idiot that went up to him and did that to him and his partner needs banning. Also the treatment of Reddick last season was ridiculous. For example, I saw tweets to some of the owners tagging Reddick in saying he should be let go ASAP. Pathetic really and I’m so delighted that he has risen above it, stayed and been voted coaches player of the year and proved again this season what a great player he is. I really hope he stays for a good few years.

Clearly the above are examples of incorrect and poor behaviour which are uncalled for, disrespectful to the players and bring the reputation of us as fans down (and unfortunately there seem to be many more similar examples).

But, as Steve King pointed out above, we are all entitled to critique, banter and complaints as long as it’s not about character. Couldn’t agree more.

Genuine question here, where do we draw the line? What’s the difference between a thread of conversation on twitter, posts on a forum or a discussion amongst friends in the bar?

Let’s actually look at what happened. Mosey gets hit and knocked out. Ulmer is the player who responds and fights and gets a beating for his efforts (Layne is a legend in my eyes). This group of fans start at thread posting there views on it and suddenly everyone starts calling them bullies.

I’ve also seen loads and loads of posts from both our fans and opposition fans about why was it Layne that fought and not one of our tough / big guys? Who knows, I wasn’t there.

Lots of people have asked why didn’t Pope react instantly as he was the big guy on the ice? Again who knows. It’s a fair question to ask and I’m sure will be a topic of conversation (amongst many others) in the bar amongst friends and with different groups.

Are we genuinely now saying that we can’t make any negative comments or ask questions on the performance or actions about any player? It seems a little bit like people are getting on their high horses at times when I know for a fact the same people have their own negative opinions on different things / players and are happy to voice them (quite colourfully at times) in the bar. They are quite happy to like or comment on cryptic sounding posts from their friends that obviously relate to the same thing without naming a player (notice I didn’t say tag a player).

Unless a player is tagged or does a search specifically for their name (or comes on a forum to read the posts) they aren’t going to see that tweet / post.

So I’m sat here genuinely wondering what is the rule?

1 -Can we have an opinion on the performance or a perceived lack of action by a player?
2 - can We communicate verbally or in a text message that opinion with friends and family?
3 - can We post that opinion / view on a forum?
4 - can We tweet that opinion / view on twitter / Facebook?
5 - a can We do 3&4 and mention the players name but not directly tag him into it?

If a fan has a view they can articulate on a players performance, actions, effort and reactions (or lack of) I don’t see any problem with them doing any of the 5 questions above.

Where it is out of line is where Steve is spot on. When it becomes a comment on character or it becomes personal then that’s where it goes too far.

The danger is I suppose we seem to have a lot of fans that can’t seem to differentiate between what is fair and what is stepping over the line. Not sure how you police that.

For the record, I quite like Matt Pope. At times he is phenomenal, scores important goals, can be a great physical presence and winds up the opposition a treat. Has he been as good or consistent this year as compared to last? For me he hasn’t and that’s disappointing. I was chuffed we had re-signed him. I was hoping however he would have kicked on and improved again like Joey Martin seems to every year. Maybe I’m expecting too much. Sometimes he looks a world beater, some times I don’t know he’s on the ice.

As for the incident on the weekend? I wasn’t there and didn’t see it live. I’ve only seen the clips. Personally, if he was the only big guy on the ice, I would have hoped for a reaction from him. It shouldn’t have been for Layne to do that by having to come off the bench and get a 3 match ban.

As for him personally?, I don’t know him. He seems a nice guy and his tweets on crypto currencies are interesting and his videos are funny.

Oh And can we please stop with the referring to other supporters as ‘fans’ in inverted commas just because they have a different viewpoint to yours. It might be something I’ve done in the past and on reflection seeing so many people doing it now makes me feel embarrassed. You’re making yourselves look stupid. If they genuinely are out of order or have said something you vehemently disagree with, try engaging with them, find out why they are thinking like they are, try to understand their point of view and try educating them in a positive manner. Tweeting or posting random posts for the benefit of your followers from your soap box comes across as sanctimonious, cliquey and condescending. Some of these people may well have been fans longer than you.

And we shouldn’t be arguing amongst ourselves. We should be slating the Squeelers, Chavs and Panties! We’re on track to hopefully be the first team to do the 3peat!!!!!

So in summary , Bullying and tagging players into tweets ........ no,

opinion on players performance and actions on the ice ....... yes.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[drainage]

For me, critique, banter, complaints, praise are all part of the game and part of being an invested fan. That's never going to change and nor should it. I think the thing that changes the dynamic from being a fan to being offside is taking a player's performance and equating it to that player being of poor character. Sports are volatile and unpredictable. No team or player is every going to be as good from one game to another. That's not because he's a jerk or because he doesn't care etc etc. It's because he's a person just like all of the rest of us. One thing I've learned by being slightly behind the scenes is that there are a lot of different things that go into high end athletic performance that we don't know about. Many of these players play through injuries that prevent them from being at their best but it is not disclosed. Some go through personal issues. Players also just go through times where they've lost their confidence. Even the best in the world go through it.

So cheer, curse, analyze and critique. But leave it with their game performance, not their character.

Having spoken to an ex player about what was happening to him on a personal level I totally agree you may not see it , know it or understand it .....but they are human like all of us and like all of us they have days when they simply aren’t as good as they can be ......let’s be nicer?

 

[Kevlar68]

I posted last season about individual players being targeted on twitter/facebook and on here and put it to the posters "Do you think these negative cheap shots will help with their mental attitude in the game?" only to be beaten back with "Do you think the players read this forum?" , "They're professionals, this won't effect them." and "They get paid enough" or words to that effect.
I was putting forward its better to give a positive attitude towards a player to help build that game confidence, constructive criticism, than to brow beat someone into feeling even worse than they did if they had a tough time during a game.
Anything could contribute to a dip in form, injury niggle, fitness, illness, personal circumstances. We as supporters don't know these things, we only see them on the ice not behind the scenes.
Any player who loves their sport and wants to play every game for their team will try to play through those barriers and try to get up for the game but sometimes it just doesn't happen.
All hockey players all over the the world will have a purple patch, no one can be perfect throughout their career, not even god Wayne Gretzky but he was close.

 

[OJLloyd]

Absolutely 100% right. Couldn’t agree with that more. Sorry for the long post but just had to get this off my chest.

For the record, I think tagging a player in any social media post is rude and stupid and I’ve called people out on this in the past. It is 100% wrong. Don’t do it!

However, some of the reaction from people in the last few days has been ridiculous and dare I say it a bit hypocritical. Some people have been getting slated on twitter for commenting on their opinion of what they perceive as Matt Pope’s lack of reaction to the Mosey hit. They might have been right and they might have been wrong about what he did or didn’t do. That’s their opinion.

But they deliberately didnt didn’t tag the player in. They also commented on his performances this year compared to last year. It was a twitter conversation among a group of people.

Things like the Bownsy incident last year are bang out of order. The idiot that went up to him and did that to him and his partner needs banning. Also the treatment of Reddick last season was ridiculous. For example, I saw tweets to some of the owners tagging Reddick in saying he should be let go ASAP. Pathetic really and I’m so delighted that he has risen above it, stayed and been voted coaches player of the year and proved again this season what a great player he is. I really hope he stays for a good few years.

Clearly the above are examples of incorrect and poor behaviour which are uncalled for, disrespectful to the players and bring the reputation of us as fans down (and unfortunately there seem to be many more similar examples).

But, as Steve King pointed out above, we are all entitled to critique, banter and complaints as long as it’s not about character. Couldn’t agree more.

Genuine question here, where do we draw the line? What’s the difference between a thread of conversation on twitter, posts on a forum or a discussion amongst friends in the bar?

Let’s actually look at what happened. Mosey gets hit and knocked out. Ulmer is the player who responds and fights and gets a beating for his efforts (Layne is a legend in my eyes). This group of fans start at thread posting there views on it and suddenly everyone starts calling them bullies.

I’ve also seen loads and loads of posts from both our fans and opposition fans about why was it Layne that fought and not one of our tough / big guys? Who knows, I wasn’t there.

Lots of people have asked why didn’t Pope react instantly as he was the big guy on the ice? Again who knows. It’s a fair question to ask and I’m sure will be a topic of conversation (amongst many others) in the bar amongst friends and with different groups.

Are we genuinely now saying that we can’t make any negative comments or ask questions on the performance or actions about any player? It seems a little bit like people are getting on their high horses at times when I know for a fact the same people have their own negative opinions on different things / players and are happy to voice them (quite colourfully at times) in the bar. They are quite happy to like or comment on cryptic sounding posts from their friends that obviously relate to the same thing without naming a player (notice I didn’t say tag a player).

Unless a player is tagged or does a search specifically for their name (or comes on a forum to read the posts) they aren’t going to see that tweet / post.

So I’m sat here genuinely wondering what is the rule?

1 -Can we have an opinion on the performance or a perceived lack of action by a player?
2 - can We communicate verbally or in a text message that opinion with friends and family?
3 - can We post that opinion / view on a forum?
4 - can We tweet that opinion / view on twitter / Facebook?
5 - a can We do 3&4 and mention the players name but not directly tag him into it?

If a fan has a view they can articulate on a players performance, actions, effort and reactions (or lack of) I don’t see any problem with them doing any of the 5 questions above.

Where it is out of line is where Steve is spot on. When it becomes a comment on character or it becomes personal then that’s where it goes too far.

The danger is I suppose we seem to have a lot of fans that can’t seem to differentiate between what is fair and what is stepping over the line. Not sure how you police that.

For the record, I quite like Matt Pope. At times he is phenomenal, scores important goals, can be a great physical presence and winds up the opposition a treat. Has he been as good or consistent this year as compared to last? For me he hasn’t and that’s disappointing. I was chuffed we had re-signed him. I was hoping however he would have kicked on and improved again like Joey Martin seems to every year. Maybe I’m expecting too much. Sometimes he looks a world beater, some times I don’t know he’s on the ice.

As for the incident on the weekend? I wasn’t there and didn’t see it live. I’ve only seen the clips. Personally, if he was the only big guy on the ice, I would have hoped for a reaction from him. It shouldn’t have been for Layne to do that by having to come off the bench and get a 3 match ban.

As for him personally?, I don’t know him. He seems a nice guy and his tweets on crypto currencies are interesting and his videos are funny.

Oh And can we please stop with the referring to other supporters as ‘fans’ in inverted commas just because they have a different viewpoint to yours. It might be something I’ve done in the past and on reflection seeing so many people doing it now makes me feel embarrassed. You’re making yourselves look stupid. If they genuinely are out of order or have said something you vehemently disagree with, try engaging with them, find out why they are thinking like they are, try to understand their point of view and try educating them in a positive manner. Tweeting or posting random posts for the benefit of your followers from your soap box comes across as sanctimonious, cliquey and condescending. Some of these people may well have been fans longer than you.

And we shouldn’t be arguing amongst ourselves. We should be slating the Squeelers, Chavs and Panties! We’re on track to hopefully be the first team to do the 3peat!!!!!

So in summary , Bullying and tagging players into tweets ........ no,

opinion on players performance and actions on the ice ....... yes.

Sorry for the long post.

Think you're spot on with your five questions.

And when you consider that Sheffield are doing their best not to qualify for the play-offs, and we're top of the league, we really should be doing a lot more to slate them. Whoooosh!

 

[rweee2001]

unfortunately a lot comes from individuals personal personalities.

I believe that criticism of players performances based on what is seen on the ice is part and parcel of any sport.

I myself have criticised players but always with supported arguments to justify what I have written. And always on this forum rather than Twitter or Facebook.

However anything beyond their on ice performance has always been for me an area that I don't comment on in a public forum.

A forum is a discussion place to debate, argue, or agree on perspectives of performances, but for me never regarding a person's private life or character....

the abuse players received regarding the Mosey incident is pathetic, we are talking about split second decisions and questioning players perspective of the incident.

yes all things being right I would love for us to have had Batch, Louis, or any player to give Rissling a thumping however that wasn't the case, I commend Ulmer for doing what he did, however I don't condemn those that 'did nothing' as they could of seen in That split second a clean hit....which
would progress to an injured player. Any team mate first thought would be to ensure the player is ok before taking any other course of action.

 

[Kipper]

Simple rule of thumb. Don’t say anything you wouldn’t happily tell someone to his face

 

[Rich Best]

I think the biggest issue in many ways is when fans 'over react'. As Steve said, players will rarely maintain consistently high form all season, every shift and every period. We need to see the bigger picture, the bigger picture right now is very good.

I, as well as others, get frustrated when there is not a reaction to incidents like the Mosey incident on Saturday. I think that is driven by passion for the badge and for the player who has been injured or wronged.

I think the team has been coached not to 'react' to incidents, and to stay out of the penalty box. This has served us well over the last two and a half seasons. The 2 seasons before that we did react (Hendrix etc...) very regularly to incidents of a far lesser severity than the Mosey incident. This was exciting to watch, but by the end of the season we came up short. So the fact that we do not react to these situations, I believe, has brought us trophies.

Fine lines in sport, and our high disciplinary record is one of the reasons we have been and are successful, so long may it continue.

 

[kettdevil1]

Simple rule of thumb. Don’t say anything you wouldn’t happily tell someone to his face

Yep, that’s it, although given the Bowns incident, maybe that needs modifying to don’t say anything the majority of fans wouldn’t happily tell someone to his face.

What depresses me, apart from the boneheaded stupidity of tagging a player you are slating is the lack of reasoned debate. There are plenty on this forum I disagree with on a regular basis but these can be divided into:

- those whose opinion I respect, disagree with, but enjoy the argument.
- those who have no evidence base for what they say.... the fighting a battle of wits with unarmed opponents brigade.

I have no problem at all with someone saying, ‘Player X’s backchecking is poor and his outlet pass has been wayward, he needs to keep with his man and dump it strong side’ (for example....), that gives other posters something to focus on, agree/disagree with and a debate can start. The problem I have is when people either say ‘Player X is crap’ or when challenged, merely repeat their assertion that they are right with no evidence provided. That is not debate, that is the pub bore telling you that if he was running the country, we wouldn’t be in this mess....