ISV (again)

[Soundwave1]

OK we've heard it all before...but at least this article gives us a clearer idea of what the revised plans are and who will take them forward. (The original plans relying on the casino were a load of guff anyway)

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales ... -25858569/

It includes the innevitable announcement that the Arms Park's days may be numbered and interestingly appears to suggest that the CIA's replacement arena would be separate to the Devils £7m twin-pad home if it were to go ahead. With a council grant of £1.7m, £5.3m doesn't look an impossible figure to reach.

Thank goodness the council has admitted it needs significant private investment to be completed...I just hope there are some good Welsh companies who can put strong bids together.

 

[Finny]

It's good that they are still mentioning it, and the fact that they are downsizing some of the original plans would suggest that it will go ahead.

I'll be delighted if the rink is totally separate from the 8000 seat arena. That's just too big for the current state of the sport right now. A rink with a capacity of around 3000 should be perfect.

 

[James]

If we can get something akin to IceSheffield but with more seating at the main pad, it would be awesome. Very impressed with their set up

 

[Soundwave1]

I'd agree on the whole Finny, owning, or being tenants at a purpose built rink would carry a lot less risk.

Although I keep coming back to the Panthers. If they can do it (all be it 6,500 seats) why can't we? I'd have no doubt that with 3,000 seats we'd be a successful, sustainable club, but it would limit our potential.

I guess it just comes down to risk and reward.

I think the risk is probably greater in terms of the stability of other clubs. What the Panthers have is great, but without clubs like Hull the Panthers would be in the poo. (A great arena and a fanbase to fill it, but with no-one to play)

I think they're also an example of it you build a good facility people will come. Sheffield's attandances at Ice shuff and the arena also bare that out. (Although ihappen to prefer ice shuff)

I guess the ideal scenario would be to have an ice pad included at the arena as well, but I couldn't see that happening with 2 pads at an adjacent facility.

TBH if we get a 3,000 seater with good facilities I'll be very happy.

PS - James i totally agree - ice sheffield is very impressive

 

[Gazza272]

I guess the ideal scenario would be to have an ice pad included at the arena as well, but I couldn't see that happening with 2 pads at an adjacent facility.

ve

Might they want an icepad for the big ice shows? Dancing on ice, Disney on ice etc? Think it could be possible

 

[Soundwave1]

I guess the ideal scenario would be to have an ice pad included at the arena as well, but I couldn't see that happening with 2 pads at an adjacent facility.

ve

Might they want an icepad for the big ice shows? Dancing on ice, Disney on ice etc? Think it could be possible

Here's hoping

 

[James]

IceSheffield is right next door to the HallamFM. Maybe its wishfull thinking but it's not beyond the realms of possibility.

 

[Finny]

I'd agree on the whole Finny, owning, or being tenants at a purpose built rink would carry a lot less risk.

Although I keep coming back to the Panthers. If they can do it (all be it 6,500 seats) why can't we? I'd have no doubt that with 3,000 seats we'd be a successful, sustainable club, but it would limit our potential.

I think the Panthers were very lucky that their new arena came at just the right time. Throughout the 90's they were getting near 2800 sellouts in their old rink despite the lack of silverwear. Along came the ISL and the interest from the public and demand for tickets was even greater.
They got their new arena at probably the height of the ISL. Sheffield were getting big attendances, so were Manchester and we were all but selling out most weeks. A season later the Odyssey was built and they too got capacity crowds.

I think if we had got a new 6000 arena back then we could well have got near sell outs and like Nottingham kept it around a 4000 average. Back then the sport was on Sky Sports nearly every week and getting good national coverage.
The one benefit Nottingham has that we never will, is that they are in the middle of the country close to other teams and so get good away crowds from Sheffield, Coventry and even Hull.

We didn't get the new Arena though and we couldn't survive in the ISL with rink income. We had a season out which lost a lot of the casual fans (and some die-hards too). Some of those decided that the drop to 8 imports was too much for the standard they had become used to - and never came back.

I had a look at our average attendances in the final season in the WNIR. I was quite shocked to discover that we were only averaging 1525 in that final season.
Last night in a lesser rink and a midweek game with 'nothing to play for' our attendance was 1516. Which is quite remarkable when you think about it.

Hopefully a shiny new home with GOOD sightlines in every seat will mean people will start coming more regularly, will be happier to buy season tickets and perhaps more importantly, we will have better facilities for corporates.

 

[Finny]

Might they want an icepad for the big ice shows? Dancing on ice, Disney on ice etc? Think it could be possible

I would have thought they would be mad not to include an ice pad option. I can't think of the nearest arena to us that has that facility and so they should be able to attract people from Bristol and the surrounding area to it.
And yes - it would then mean we have the option to move to the Arena should we ever outgrow a rink. Though for me that would be a long time away and would need the sport as a whole to expand much further.

 

[Soundwave1]

Thanks for that Finny that was very inciteful. Putting into context like that does change things.

As you say moving to an arena when we can only fit 2,300 in the tent would be too big a jump. The best scenario would be having an ice pad in the arena so down the line we could move into it if we were selling out with 3,000 crowds.

I think an arena is possible in the longer term, but perhaps the steps should be a little smaller. I still think we need to keep that ambition as a hockey club even if it remains an ambition for some time.

You alluded to the site lines and I think that (and general facilities including corporate) is the key.Matt Burge clearly recognises that also as he's made clear the club needs a new facility to grow.

Sorry I've taken the thread away from the detail of the anoucement from the council.

 

[Koop11]

Quite a timely report from the Echo following the news yesterday. Let’s hope the Devils still have in place a proposal to builds its own rink and even better than that be in a position to run it themselves. This would bring long term stability to the Devils and help us compete every season. It is certainly encouraging to read that the council will commit a loan of £1.7m to the developer who builds the rink and that the Devils have been drawing up plans for a £7m facility.

We have to think realistic and propose a purpose built 3000 seater rink that has the desired specifications that we as an ice hockey club and skating community need. Preferably two ice pads. One for training, rec hockey, other skating sports and public skating. Another for the Devils and maybe even the lower league teams to play competitive hockey out of.

The game rink will of course need to have the slight lines appropriate for the viewer and be fitted with a full catering facility and bar. Ideally it will include a stand for filming games and of course a hospitality area for sponsors. The Devils management will be fully aware of these and other necessities required. I share the comments that a larger ice Sheffield style facility would be very good.

What we have to be mindful of is the amount of land that will be allocated to the constructer. Two ice pads will cover a lot of space and the more land used the greater the cost.

With regard to the plans for an arena then it would be useful for them to incorporate an ice pad for major events that may include ice hockey but for me this is not essential to us as a club. The sport in this country will unlikely average 4000+ week in week out throughout a top flight league for some time if at all ever. 3000 seats will be ample and if we can run that facility even better. It will be interesting to see how this develops and how much involvement we as a club will have in building such a facility.

The council have promised a permanent home for the Devils and the tent was initially built with a life span on 3-5 years. Its year 4 now and time is ticking.

 

[Gwynfor]

Don't forget, the second ice pad wouldn't just be for public skating. There are 15 different teams that play out of the rink, ice time is one of the big problems at the moment.

 

[Rock Chick]

It's not just Wales Online reporting this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/8521839.stm

Here's hoping

 

[El Supremo]

With regard to the plans for an arena then it would be useful for them to incorporate an ice pad for major events that may include ice hockey but for me this is not essential to us as a club. The sport in this country will unlikely average 4000+ week in week out throughout a top flight league for some time if at all ever. 3000 seats will be ample and if we can run that facility even better. It will be interesting to see how this develops and how much involvement we as a club will have in building such a facility.

Why can't a league in this country support an average crowd of 4000+ a week? I'm pretty sure the ISL did it just 10 years ago (yes I know that level was unsustainable but at least we know that the demand for hockey is there in the UK). I agree with what others say about us moving to a smaller rink/arena (3,000-4,000) before making the step up to a fully fledged arena. It is important that we have a sensible capacity in the smaller rink/arena but what is arguably more important is that the 'proper' arena incorporates an ice pad should the Devils ever require the increased capacity (why shouldn't we have aspirations to be a 'big' club?).

 

[James]

we have but surely its better to have an rink we know we can almost fill week on week with a good atmosphere with the potential to move to bigger and better things in the future, than being ... well Sheffield .. 2 dozen people in a giganic rusty tin shed

 

[Finny]

Hypothetically there it nothing stopping this sport (or any sport) with average support for each team of 4000+.

However, the fact is that there aren't enough arenas big enough to support that. The highest average attendance the ISL ever had was 3,822 in its first season. Suprisingly that was before both the Odyssey and NIC arenas. It was also when the Manchester Storm were giving away lots of free tickets and the sport was still relatively new in Sheffield. They were the only two teams to get over the average.

Getting an ice plant in a new arena would be way way way down my list of priorities. Whilst the attendances this season are improving and impressive, we are still a long way from filling a 3000 arena. Heck - if we were selling out 3000 crowds every week I would have thought that would be making the management enough money that they could build a new arena!

The problem though is getting the big crowds to come every week. It's no good getting 3000 one week if then a week later we only get 1500. Think how awful that would look in a 8000 arena - even 4000 fans would mean it was only half full.
Would a bigger arena make you go more El? You yourself said you weren't going to bother going to anymore league games this season because it wasn't worth it. I would guess an arena would have more costs too which would probably mean you have to increase ticket price - but you already think it is too expensive?

 

[El Supremo]

Hypothetically there it nothing stopping this sport (or any sport) with average support for each team of 4000+.

However, the fact is that there aren't enough arenas big enough to support that. The highest average attendance the ISL ever had was 3,822 in its first season. Suprisingly that was before both the Odyssey and NIC arenas. It was also when the Manchester Storm were giving away lots of free tickets and the sport was still relatively new in Sheffield. They were the only two teams to get over the average.

Getting an ice plant in a new arena would be way way way down my list of priorities. Whilst the attendances this season are improving and impressive, we are still a long way from filling a 3000 arena. Heck - if we were selling out 3000 crowds every week I would have thought that would be making the management enough money that they could build a new arena!

The problem though is getting the big crowds to come every week. It's no good getting 3000 one week if then a week later we only get 1500. Think how awful that would look in a 8000 arena - even 4000 fans would mean it was only half full.
Would a bigger arena make you go more El? You yourself said you weren't going to bother going to anymore league games this season because it wasn't worth it. I would guess an arena would have more costs too which would probably mean you have to increase ticket price - but you already think it is too expensive?

You're missing my point. I stated that it is imortant that we should be playing out of a rink/arena with a capacity of around 3,000-4,000 for the moment. However, should the sport or our team ever grow then we need somewhere to play that suites our need (i.e. an 8,000 seater) otherwise our growth would be stented.

 

[Finny]

You're missing my point. I stated that it is imortant that we should be playing out of a rink/arena with a capacity of around 3,000-4,000 for the moment. However, should the sport or our team ever grow then we need somewhere to play that suites our need (i.e. an 8,000 seater) otherwise our growth would be stented.

But IMO there is no way that such an arena is 'more important' than a permanent 3000 rink. It would be a nice bonus, but for me the most important thing is a permanent rink of a decent size with good sightlines and improved facilities for fans and corporate sponsors.

I wouldn't at this point in time spend much time or money convincing the relevant people to make sure the arena was the correct shape to host ice hockey or have an ice pad facility.

 

[Wannabe2]

We need a place similar to Coventry, with hopefully a second pad, that belongs and is run by the Devils management. 3-3500 seats will be ample doubling the crowd that was there Wednesday. Hopefully we will get some good news soon, otherwise SORAC will be called back into action. All for one and one for all.

 

[Finny]

Whilst nowhere near as bad as our tent, I seem to remember the sightlines behind the goals in Coventry being a bit bad too. Perhaps that is the same in most places though, as I remember struggling to see the nearest boards behind the goals in the Centrum.

I'd like to think it would be a bit snazzier than the Skydome though. Ideally it needs corporate boxes behind at the back behind the seats. Or a massive bar one side and a cafeteria the other. Something the Skydome doesn't have.

I still think the best rink ever built in this country was the Centrum and it is that we should model ours on.