Increased activity outside IAW …..
- Thread starter kingmo19.1
- Start date
I would most definitely support this demonstration if there was one organised (and would possibly attend). Drakeford’s decisions based on so called ‘scientific evidence’ really do baffle me at times and it seems the whole ‘data-not-dates’ thing has gone out the window. Dictatorship at it’s finest.
Cases of the Delta variant are going up, however the extremely low amount of daily deaths are consistent due to the rollout, and with more and more people getting both their first and second doses of the vaccine, I see absolutely no reason as to why the ice rink cannot open. I have both signed and shared the petition and I hope more people do (including those around the league).
Cases of the Delta variant are going up, however the extremely low amount of daily deaths are consistent due to the rollout, and with more and more people getting both their first and second doses of the vaccine, I see absolutely no reason as to why the ice rink cannot open. I have both signed and shared the petition and I hope more people do (including those around the league).
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Yep wouldn't want any nutters involved. I think there's a lot to be gained by trying to build support within the wider sport community. Working with Welsh sports organisations etc. Also, like the idea of inviting Drakeford and Co to games but we need the rink well and truly up to speed with certainty around operating before that can happen. Need to make ourselves heard now.
Whilst I can only imagine how frustrating it is for the management to stay closed and for skaters etc to be unable to use the facility, having read some of the comments on here (and the petition) I feel I need to play Devils Advocate with a bit of a reality check.
The UK is currently at the start of the 3rd wave of Covid infections. Cases are rising exponentially and daily new cases are now higher than any other European country (with the exception of Russia). Based on previous waves, we would be preparing for a tightening of restrictions and potentially a 3rd lockdown.
The difference this time is that we are hopefully in a much better position thanks to the vaccine rollout. Especially here in Wales where the speed of the rollout is one of the fastest in the world.
But we do still need to be cautious. It takes around 3 weeks for a rise in infections to have an affect on hospital admissions (and potentially deaths). In England they are starting to see an increase in both, albeit small. In Wales we are yet to see an increase in either, although based on the 3 week timescale this is the week we would expect to see that increase. The next couple of weeks are going to be crucial to what happens over the coming months.
The cause of this rise is the Delta variant. If it hadn't spread into and around the UK we'd be looking at Wales going into Tier 1 today and the Arena being given the go ahead to open. Unfortunately it did and the blame for that must go to the UK government for refusing to put India on the red list until it was too late. If people want to play the political blame game their anger should be aimed at Boris Johnson who put his desire for a jolly to India ahead of what was best for the UK.
If we are going to get the Arena open we are going to need to work with the Welsh Government, not finger pointing and using derogatory names like "Drakeford". This club has had too much history with picking fights with the wrong people for the sake of it - let's not make that mistake again.
Raising the profile of the needs of the Arena and it's users is definitely the way ahead ,but it needs to be done sensibly. For ordinary members of the public an ice rink would not appear to have the same risk as other sports and leisure venues. The basic rules for Covid has been :
Outdoors = Good. Indoors = Bad
Warm = Good. Cold = Bad
So an indoor venue with Ice literally in it's name is going to sound like the worst possible place to open. And despite the loudest voices shouting to "Open Everything Up" polls continue to show overwhelming support for a slow relaxation of rules (and the current pause we have).
Without wanting to cause offence to the person who created it, a poorly worded and factually incorrect petition is probably not the best way forward. A carefully worded statement from the Arena management backed by all the different user groups would IMO be far better. Pointing out the physical and mental health benefits from reopening the Arena and explaining the processes that would be in place to assure people's fears of a cold, indoor building.
Something like this would allow us to contact our local politicians and put forward the argument in a sensible and fact based manner.
In the meantime, we can all play our part by continuing to follow social distancing rules, get tested when needed and get the vaccine when possible.
The UK is currently at the start of the 3rd wave of Covid infections. Cases are rising exponentially and daily new cases are now higher than any other European country (with the exception of Russia). Based on previous waves, we would be preparing for a tightening of restrictions and potentially a 3rd lockdown.
The difference this time is that we are hopefully in a much better position thanks to the vaccine rollout. Especially here in Wales where the speed of the rollout is one of the fastest in the world.
But we do still need to be cautious. It takes around 3 weeks for a rise in infections to have an affect on hospital admissions (and potentially deaths). In England they are starting to see an increase in both, albeit small. In Wales we are yet to see an increase in either, although based on the 3 week timescale this is the week we would expect to see that increase. The next couple of weeks are going to be crucial to what happens over the coming months.
The cause of this rise is the Delta variant. If it hadn't spread into and around the UK we'd be looking at Wales going into Tier 1 today and the Arena being given the go ahead to open. Unfortunately it did and the blame for that must go to the UK government for refusing to put India on the red list until it was too late. If people want to play the political blame game their anger should be aimed at Boris Johnson who put his desire for a jolly to India ahead of what was best for the UK.
If we are going to get the Arena open we are going to need to work with the Welsh Government, not finger pointing and using derogatory names like "Drakeford". This club has had too much history with picking fights with the wrong people for the sake of it - let's not make that mistake again.
Raising the profile of the needs of the Arena and it's users is definitely the way ahead ,but it needs to be done sensibly. For ordinary members of the public an ice rink would not appear to have the same risk as other sports and leisure venues. The basic rules for Covid has been :
Outdoors = Good. Indoors = Bad
Warm = Good. Cold = Bad
So an indoor venue with Ice literally in it's name is going to sound like the worst possible place to open. And despite the loudest voices shouting to "Open Everything Up" polls continue to show overwhelming support for a slow relaxation of rules (and the current pause we have).
Without wanting to cause offence to the person who created it, a poorly worded and factually incorrect petition is probably not the best way forward. A carefully worded statement from the Arena management backed by all the different user groups would IMO be far better. Pointing out the physical and mental health benefits from reopening the Arena and explaining the processes that would be in place to assure people's fears of a cold, indoor building.
Something like this would allow us to contact our local politicians and put forward the argument in a sensible and fact based manner.
In the meantime, we can all play our part by continuing to follow social distancing rules, get tested when needed and get the vaccine when possible.
That's the spirit. Ignore everything I have said and go on the name calling again.
What we need is the data and evidence that Todd has to be made public in a sensible way.
All we have at the moment is the TAG report produced for the Welsh Government back in Nov 2020.
Since then arenas have opened around the world, ice rinks have opened up in England and parts of Scotland, and the EIHL Series was run without a single positive case.
There should be enough evidence based data amongst that to put forward a sensible argument as to why ice venues are not the high risk environment they were previously deemed to be.
I guess for some people though they will have to decide which is more important. The future of the Arena or their own political points-scoring.
What we need is the data and evidence that Todd has to be made public in a sensible way.
All we have at the moment is the TAG report produced for the Welsh Government back in Nov 2020.
Since then arenas have opened around the world, ice rinks have opened up in England and parts of Scotland, and the EIHL Series was run without a single positive case.
There should be enough evidence based data amongst that to put forward a sensible argument as to why ice venues are not the high risk environment they were previously deemed to be.
I guess for some people though they will have to decide which is more important. The future of the Arena or their own political points-scoring.
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Spot on Finny and very well explained, this is without a doubt the road to go down and not the Cavalier charge into the Abyss. I am as gutted as anyone to still be without our precious home, and as has been said we are 3 weeks behind others and need to learn from their results on this. Everything Finny has stated has to be the way forward we need a strong sensible argument that will stand strong against those in power.
To be fair Finny, I’ve always tried to ignore what you say on here, which surely is my right on an Internet forum - especially when you’re pushing your own political agenda. Drakeford is quite mild actually, you should see what he’s called on social media. And by the way, I‘ve contacted my local MS and disseminated the Welsh Gov “evidence“ in that Nov 20 document. If you think you’re going to get a reasoned, well thought out response in reply, think again. Not in my experience anyway. The phrase “blind leading the blind” springs to mind.
It's impossible to deny that the rises in covid rates in the UK are concerning. It's also true that we have to be looking at the situation 3 weeks in the future. That said however, the situation is more nuanced than that. The rises in Wales appear to be predominately in the North. The increases in the South seem to be quite small. Additionally there seems to be little increase in the hospitalisation rates - and let's remember that the reason for the lockdown was predominately ensuring that the NHS could cope.
With regards to the ice rink, given that there are only two of them in Wales, it's not like there's a myriad of different circumstances that need to be considered. In fact as it's only our rink that hosts large numbers of spectators, it should be possible for accommodations to be reached. Elsewhere in this forum I've set out the steps that I felt could allow safe operation of the arena. The impression I get is that the assembly simply doesn't care, and that they're more interested in virtue signalling than anything else. I could be wrong on that. It happens more often than I care to admit, but surely the politicians can do something to demonstrate that they're engaged and want to help.
With regards to the ice rink, given that there are only two of them in Wales, it's not like there's a myriad of different circumstances that need to be considered. In fact as it's only our rink that hosts large numbers of spectators, it should be possible for accommodations to be reached. Elsewhere in this forum I've set out the steps that I felt could allow safe operation of the arena. The impression I get is that the assembly simply doesn't care, and that they're more interested in virtue signalling than anything else. I could be wrong on that. It happens more often than I care to admit, but surely the politicians can do something to demonstrate that they're engaged and want to help.
The TAG report needs an informed critique if that is what WG is relying on - even that is not certain. One thing is certain is that the report focuses a lot on outdoor/pop up rinks
There should though be plenty of current data about - yes the incidents in England but excluding the EIHL series which was held in a bubble so is unrepresentative. There should also be historic data - for example from the Arena accident book and ticketing system + nos of visiting players, patch subscriptions etc - the number of A&E visits per head of attendees can be arrived at to, hopefully, debunk the non-Covid pressure on A&E (say March 2019 to March 2020)
Whether we (or the club) can provide like for like data from other countries is debatable as is whether it is relevant
Also historic or real world data does not seem to count at the moment - everything is based on forward modelling which by definition, and at best, is flawed. There also appears (not surprisingly) a lot of emotion about. Just look at today's spat between Greater Manchester and Scotland
So, we should support Todd in his endeavours. We need to be careful what we wish for - Todd will have talked to WG about viable capacity whereas our plea to just hope up could result in - "there you go then get on with it" only for Todd to reject the inevitable opening with restrictions on viability grounds.
You are right focus is needed - the perfect petition would have been better based on how it would help Todd and what it can add. I'm sorry to, say were I FM I would reject the petition on the grounds that it ignores Deeside when he is taking a whole of Wales approach. Nevertheless we should support it. Similarly I would support a protest outside the Senedd but an organised one bringing to the fore Labour touch points in Comets, Huskies and juniors
All this, appart from the petition, is in the ether at the moment. To take things forward we do need advise nd guidance from Todd
There should though be plenty of current data about - yes the incidents in England but excluding the EIHL series which was held in a bubble so is unrepresentative. There should also be historic data - for example from the Arena accident book and ticketing system + nos of visiting players, patch subscriptions etc - the number of A&E visits per head of attendees can be arrived at to, hopefully, debunk the non-Covid pressure on A&E (say March 2019 to March 2020)
Whether we (or the club) can provide like for like data from other countries is debatable as is whether it is relevant
Also historic or real world data does not seem to count at the moment - everything is based on forward modelling which by definition, and at best, is flawed. There also appears (not surprisingly) a lot of emotion about. Just look at today's spat between Greater Manchester and Scotland
So, we should support Todd in his endeavours. We need to be careful what we wish for - Todd will have talked to WG about viable capacity whereas our plea to just hope up could result in - "there you go then get on with it" only for Todd to reject the inevitable opening with restrictions on viability grounds.
You are right focus is needed - the perfect petition would have been better based on how it would help Todd and what it can add. I'm sorry to, say were I FM I would reject the petition on the grounds that it ignores Deeside when he is taking a whole of Wales approach. Nevertheless we should support it. Similarly I would support a protest outside the Senedd but an organised one bringing to the fore Labour touch points in Comets, Huskies and juniors
All this, appart from the petition, is in the ether at the moment. To take things forward we do need advise nd guidance from Todd