Feedback to Greenbank

Discussion in 'Cardiff Devils & EIHL chat' started by James, Jun 7, 2017.

  1. Wannabe2

    Wannabe2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    7,365
    Likes Received:
    490
    Greenbank won a £350 million pounds contract, to build the housing, hotel etc, whoever won the contract had to build a replacement Ice Arena at their own cost, that was the deal. Now no one really wanted to build a ice rink, especially as their main tenants were to have rent free ice time, but if they wanted the profitable build, they had to take the cost of the Arena on the chin, that turned out to be £17 Million . If they could have done away with building the Arena they would have jumped at it, as it was never going to be a viable exercise. So now it's built and they have to a certain extent honoured there part, I think they are reluctant to spend anymore on what they see as a dead duck, now I may be wrong on their attitude but that's my take on it.
     
    Milky and Leighton like this.
  2. Josh Williamson

    Josh Williamson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    18
    You are absolutely right in most of your post, my point is that to have won a contract some conditions would have needed to be met. Financial stability being one. The council pulled out of awarding Planer Ice due to fear of funding. Greenbank had to holt works for a period of the build, due to lack of funds.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  3. Chris

    Chris Administrator

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    5,287
    Likes Received:
    118
    But that was because they simply hadn't sold enough houses to have the money there to keep building the arena? If it's anything like other schemes, the one in Cardiff was set up as it's own company and the £17million to build the arena wasn't just sitting there, funds had to be raised by selling houses on an ajoining plot of land.

    I don't really understand where this is going, Greenbank built the arena, they currently operate it. It was built on a budget and whilst the arena is great and a major upgrade on anything we've had before, it's not quite as good as some were hoping for.

    Presumably Greenbank have asked for this fan feedback to try and gauge what the issues are and what they can improve for the absolute minimum spend to reduce the number of complaints that they're getting?
     
    Finny likes this.
  4. Have Hope#35

    Have Hope#35 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,026
    Likes Received:
    75
    Wasn't this more to do with the agreement for the land? I suppose it would still be considered a Tender but you first have to find a Developer who wants to put together a working scheme! The council also had to feel confident that a suitable Ice Arena would be provided. It's as good as we've ever had, just needs a bit more focus and attention!
     
  5. Josh Williamson

    Josh Williamson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    18
    I guess my point being is the lack of due diligence. The whole process of awarding the contract was in part meant to include the sustainability of the IAW's future. I agree today we have an improved facility to the BBT, but what happens if tomorrow the bills are not paid, who will pay them or will it simply close.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017
  6. Johnnybravo1927

    Johnnybravo1927 Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2015
    Messages:
    370
    Likes Received:
    176
    Slightly off topic but why would steve King and the rest want to buy IAW. For arguments sake it would cost them £17 million pounds and for what? The devils pay no rent, its not a good business so he would get some profit on food and drink and not have to pay rent on the devils office but its nowhere near a £17million deal. I have no doubts they would certainly improve the place and improve profit but it would never recoup the outlay.
     
  7. Kal

    Kal Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2016
    Messages:
    220
    Likes Received:
    60
    I think eventually, probably a few years from now, Greenbank will just want rid of it specially if its operating at a loss. Perfect time for a cut price deal, hopefully the place will still be salvageable then.
     
  8. Have Hope#35

    Have Hope#35 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2012
    Messages:
    2,026
    Likes Received:
    75
    Pretty sure that when the Owners were looking to purchase the rink their offer was about £10mil less than the number you've referenced... If they've left their offer on the table then I've no doubt that Greenbank will come calling again some time in the future! A passionate and business savy owner could certainly turn that place around.
     
    Johnnybravo1927 likes this.
  9. Finny

    Finny Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2008
    Messages:
    7,098
    Likes Received:
    442
    If Greenbank hadn't built it nobody else would have. Greenbank were the only company to tender for it.
    Due diligence would have been done. If you research them you'll find no history of financial issues.
     
    Johnnybravo1927 and Have Hope#35 like this.
  10. august04

    august04 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2008
    Messages:
    1,023
    Likes Received:
    316
    What's done is done, the circumstances around the build aren't going to change now. We've got a fantastic facility which we all know needs more being spent on it to get close to finishing it off. It would be nice to know that money will be spent to improve it or at least maintain the building properly, as I've seen two ice facilities in Cardiff go to rack and ruin through lack of maintenance already and I hope that doesn't happen with IAW. What I want to know is what updates were given at the fan council meeting, if any? That should be commented on, given we were asked to complete feedback forms for Greenbank. The season is upon us. Is this new lighting that we were told was replacing the failing lights, installed yet? Etc etc etc. If no improvements or changes, and there's no intention to do anything, then let the public know. At least then, we know where we are and can stop dreaming of a completed or improved facility.
     
    Finny likes this.
  11. Josh Williamson

    Josh Williamson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    18
    I agree what is done is done in part, my issue is this should not have been a make do facility on the cheap. The Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004 which requires a Council to prepare a Local Development Plan. The Cardiff Local Development Plan 2006-26 is very clear that pre release of each development has to satisfy certain legal, sustainability, social and environmental issues and laws before the development can begin.

    Part of the plan includes "Develop world-class leisure, cultural and sporting facilities – that reflect the wants of citizens and visitors".

    "The Bay Business Area (BBA) is the focus for government, tourism and leisure development; with the Senedd, the Wales Millennium Centre and other landmark buildings redefining the architectural quality and attractiveness of the waterfront and its environs. Future development should continue to enhance the waterfront as an attractive and diverse mixed-use location, whilst complementing and supporting the CBA as the economic driver for the city region. The Cardiff Bay Barrage has created a 200 hectare freshwater lake and 13km of waterfront providing opportunities for further tourism and water based recreation as well as attracting significant inward investment in an attractive waterfront location".

    "New and improved leisure, recreation and tourist facilities are important for the future development of Cardiff. These uses are major employers in the city centre and generate significant benefits to the local economy. By improving the quality and range of sporting, recreation and leisure facilities, the area is made a more attractive place in which to live, work and visit, thereby helping to attract inward investment and regeneration. These attractions are also important for city marketing and the branding of Cardiff as a major cultural, sporting and leisure destination. Furthermore, it is recognised that these facilities are an important factor in improving the well-being and quality of life of our local communities".

    Does anything in the IAW, Greenbank or its surrounding proposed development of the adjacent land currently or in the future met any of the LDP.

    So who is going to spend the money to improve the IAW and continue the development of the site ?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  12. matbur

    matbur Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2012
    Messages:
    307
    Likes Received:
    80
    When are the supporters representatives going to feedback from meeting??
     
  13. pjj365

    pjj365 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2015
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    101
    Hmm
    Assume at some point the Council will do something about what might be a breach of covenant (who knows)

    Couple this with a failing business which can not meet its banking covenants and maybe the IAW will become an attractive purchase

    Another business for £1 anyone

    Means taking on debts and obligations as well but ................
     
  14. DevilInside

    DevilInside New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2009
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    0
    Will the minutes from these fan counci/Devils/IAW meetings likely be made available? Would be interested in reading what has been mentioned,
     
  15. Josh Williamson

    Josh Williamson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    18
    How can the fan council be contacted, where do they release any information ?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  16. kingmo19.1

    kingmo19.1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    112
    I think a few people have let their expectations run wild with the IAW. Just a reminder, but the original budged wasn't £50million. It's not perfect (as some would expect), but it's the BEST we've ever had.

    My lad plays for the Junior Devils and we visit a load of rinks up and down the country, some of which are complete and utter dumps. Be thankful for what you have! I believe the alternatives would have been remain in the BBT / None.
     
    Johnnybravo1927 likes this.
  17. Josh Williamson

    Josh Williamson Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    18
    The past cannot be re-written, but the Council do have an obligation to honour the LDP. The council have appointed a developer who should have passed on paper all the necessary tests to ensure the facility has a future. The EIHL is gaining strength within the UK, the Devils have decent owners and are achieving success both on the ice and within the fan base. The very least Greenbank should be strongly reminded of their obligations, assuming of course the council and Greenbank want the IAW to remain in its current form.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
  18. Mike Ware's Office

    Mike Ware's Office Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2016
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    20
    We are a Capital City and should be able to realistically expect to have a Capital facility.
    The rink is certainly the best we've ever had but there are a few issues that most of us are aware of, we have a beautiful National stadium right in the centre of our City, an excellent cricket stadium, a 33,000 seater football stadium, a wonderful athletics stadium and a beautiful swimming facility. We seem to be the poor relations on the sports facilities order of merit.
    Granted the rink is good but all the oddities like scoreboard missing corners, poor catering facilities and very plain and disappointing internal decor.
    This city has a wonderful reputation for hosting big sporting events in first class facilities and for the sake of a little bit more financial input and thinking outside the box we could have a really wonderful faciilty like our football/rugby/cricket/swimming neighbours..like I said we're a Capital city.
     
    pjj365 likes this.
  19. Wannabe2

    Wannabe2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2008
    Messages:
    7,365
    Likes Received:
    490
    Edinburgh is a Capital City and their rink sucks, London is the Capital City of the World and they have jack all, so please don't think we are entitled to the Rolls Royce of Rinks because when reality kicks in, we are big time fortunate to have what we have. Our wonderful Capital City when they closed the Empire Pool left our swimmers with Zilch, so please don't go down that road. Our wonderful Capital City Council would have been quite happy to close the doors on ice facilities in Cardiff, as long as John Lewis were coming that was all that mattered, and if the Devils died then diddly squat, who gave a toss. Don't ever underestimate our gaff, it's the best we have ever had.
     
    Milky and Ted_S like this.
  20. kingmo19.1

    kingmo19.1 Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    112
    Spot on.
     

Share This Page