Devils Vs Nottingham Panthers - Sun 17 Sep 2017 - League - Chat/Updates

#41
I'd also add that this season so far I have seen more instances of diving / embellishment already than in previous seasons - another sad sign for the way the game is going.
That I agree with - players wise to the fact that our officials are not up to scratch and taking advantage IMO. I think we'll see more physicality as the season progresses and becomes more competitive.



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Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#42
I just don't understand people that watch hockey for the fights and hits - fair enough, when someone lands a decent hit it's entertaining.... but that's not really what hockey is about. It's like going to Wimbledon and only enjoying the serves, or going to a rugby match and only enjoying the scrums ... personally makes no sense to me. If all you're interested in is collisions, you're better off taking yourself down to the stock-car track! The best hockey players are not the guys that are chasing people around to land hits ...


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I don't think people watch hockey just for the hits and fights, although a huge mid Ice hit is a think of beauty, and no one falls asleep when two guys drop the Mitts. Hockey to me is the greatest game on the planet, but that's because it's a mixture of speed, skill, and physicality. Hockey to me is the beautiful game, but just as you wouldn't want to lose the speed, wouldn't want to lose the skill, you most certainly wouldn't want to lose the physical side either. Cardiff fans have been brought up with a team that wouldn't be knocked about, it's in bred to many many fans, it's a tribal thing if you like. Rock em Sock em should always play a big part in this amazing sport, can't get too excited about tiddlywinks.
 
#43
I'm just not that bothered about players wasting time to look for the perfect hit when there are goals to be scored! Nobody wants their team to get bull-dozed around the ice, and I don't think we will-it's just the least important element of hockey to me. I don't particularly think Nottingham have an out-and-out tough guy. The same as us, they have plenty of big body's. Same goes for Belfast. Maybe Rosehill, Fitzy and maybe Doty are the only players left in the league that are cut from that enforcer-esque cloth... my opinion is subject to change, depending on what happens as the season progresses [emoji23]


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#45
Gagnon is a pretty tough cookie. His fight card includes lots of ex NHL and AHL enforcers.
I wonder how many of those fights he actually won! After seeing how he fought on Sunday, probably quite a few - by flailing about like a fish out of water and then pulling the opposing players hair when he thinks he may take a few...


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Ocko

Well-Known Member
#46
I don't think we've been bullied at all.

We made as many if not more hits than Nottingham in that game, certainly the biggest hits came from us. We didn't win either fight but who cares? The players weren't hurt, the crowd were pumped up for it and the team were too. You won't win every fight.

We also won the game quite convincingly, a bullied team wouldn't of won by that scoreline. I just think this whole perception of us being bullied is exactly that, a perception. I don't see us pulling out of hits, scared to go in the corners or any guys getting nailed and hurt. We're playing our own game and not being put off it. I fail to see how that is being bullied.

We have seen 5 fights this year already, 4 or which we have started or gone looking for, and are only a few weeks in with 6 months left of the season. Last season we only had 17 and that was with this apparent policeman who stopped our players being bullied. Except when Bowns was being run all year, or when Hendrikx jumped Lord after promising he'd take care of him, or Fitzgerald taking every opportunity to try and fight Hotham. Yeah that big, bad enforcer worked so well then didn't it? He had 2 fights, one he had no choice and the other was his own personal vendetta, neither was sticking up for his team mates.
 

terry hunt

Well-Known Member
#48
Yes. Reddick got I think two for holding and five for fighting. Bussieres got a five for fighting. The fives are coincidental so weren't put on the board but the panthers had a powerplay due to the additional holding penalty and so two minutes was shown on the clock to be served by someone else who could return to the ice when the minor was expired. The game then returns to 5v5 but the penalised players stay in the box.

Reddick himself still actually has to sit in the box for seven minutes (2+5) and Bussieres for 5. Hence bussieres came out and Reddick didn't. Hope that makes sense.
Thanks Mooney its my age
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
#49
I wonder how many of those fights he actually won! After seeing how he fought on Sunday, probably quite a few - by flailing about like a fish out of water and then pulling the opposing players hair when he thinks he may take a few...


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Looking at his fight card it seems his biggest claim is a draw v Bissonnette, and a draw against Rosehill.
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#51
Surely it's all about reading the game and playing smart? The Devils have not really had to answer the bell with intimidation yet. The refs are already binning players enough.....so I think the Guys will playing agressive only when they need to be.

The game has changed a gear or two this year in terms of style and speed. Fewer teams have out and out tough guys, more teams are faster and younger. Games are won by successfully adapting to that. Lordo acknowledges that in the weekend' match night programme.

Simply put, to successfully defend any titles, it's all about winning. The expectation of the Club this year is title defence plus the Playoff title they deserved last season. To achieve that, it means keeping on winning.

It is still possible to play an aggressive style, and, when neccessary, stand up and be counted.....but when it's smart to do that.

After the utter thrill of the win over Davos, and two outstanding performances against two close league rivals last weekend, I am baffled wby some folks are saying they are missing the entertainment element in Devils'hockey!

I mean, what more do they have to do?
 

DevilDom

Well-Known Member
#52
I don't think we've been bullied at all.

We made as many if not more hits than Nottingham in that game, certainly the biggest hits came from us. We didn't win either fight but who cares? The players weren't hurt, the crowd were pumped up for it and the team were too. You won't win every fight.

We also won the game quite convincingly, a bullied team wouldn't of won by that scoreline. I just think this whole perception of us being bullied is exactly that, a perception. I don't see us pulling out of hits, scared to go in the corners or any guys getting nailed and hurt. We're playing our own game and not being put off it. I fail to see how that is being bullied.

We have seen 5 fights this year already, 4 or which we have started or gone looking for, and are only a few weeks in with 6 months left of the season. Last season we only had 17 and that was with this apparent policeman who stopped our players being bullied. Except when Bowns was being run all year, or when Hendrikx jumped Lord after promising he'd take care of him, or Fitzgerald taking every opportunity to try and fight Hotham. Yeah that big, bad enforcer worked so well then didn't it? He had 2 fights, one he had no choice and the other was his own personal vendetta, neither was sticking up for his team mates.
That is the beauty of sport - everyone see's things slightly differently.

I thought the hit / elbow on Lord in the 1st minute with no reaction set the tone for the 1st period and we were outplayed / roughed up a little and very fortunate to come in level. I think the shot count was 14-5 in favour of the Panthers. Add in the fact Reddick was no choiced by a guy much bigger than him - again with no reaction from our players I think that points a little to being bullied. In years gone by both would have seen a reaction. Granted we upped our game in the 2nd, hit a bit more and were more clinical than Panthers with our chances, but I feel they came back at us again in the 3rd and it wasn't until Faryna dropped them with Gagnon in the last few minutes that we showed any reaction. However, most importantly won the game.

The number of fights or who wins is largely irrelevant - for me its more about reacting at the right time. I'm not for a minute saying we should have re-signed Bordy because he didn't live up to his billing either but I feel we are lacking slightly on the physical front this year. It's my opinion and I sincerly hope I'm proved wrong.
 

Have Hope#35

Well-Known Member
#53
That is the beauty of sport - everyone see's things slightly differently.

I thought the hit / elbow on Lord in the 1st minute with no reaction set the tone for the 1st period and we were outplayed / roughed up a little and very fortunate to come in level. I think the shot count was 14-5 in favour of the Panthers. Add in the fact Reddick was no choiced by a guy much bigger than him - again with no reaction from our players I think that points a little to being bullied. In years gone by both would have seen a reaction. Granted we upped our game in the 2nd, hit a bit more and were more clinical than Panthers with our chances, but I feel they came back at us again in the 3rd and it wasn't until Faryna dropped them with Gagnon in the last few minutes that we showed any reaction. However, most importantly won the game.

The number of fights or who wins is largely irrelevant - for me its more about reacting at the right time. I'm not for a minute saying we should have re-signed Bordy because he didn't live up to his billing either but I feel we are lacking slightly on the physical front this year. It's my opinion and I sincerly hope I'm proved wrong.
Did you think the Lord hit was bad? It all happened very quick on the night but Lord was the one with all the momentum who was lining up for a big hit... Brown turned and saw him coming and rode the hit particularly well which resulted in Lord taking all the impact from his own speed, leaving him severly winded! You could see him trying to suck up the air after he managed to get to his feet. I watched the highlights and you can't make out an elbow imo. I personally left that game feeling really entertained and although we were second best in a couple of fights I didn't feel the team were bullied, as you say we all see things differently ;)
 

DevilDom

Well-Known Member
#54
Did you think the Lord hit was bad? It all happened very quick on the night but Lord was the one with all the momentum who was lining up for a big hit... Brown turned and saw him coming and rode the hit particularly well which resulted in Lord taking all the impact from his own speed, leaving him severly winded! You could see him trying to suck up the air after he managed to get to his feet. I watched the highlights and you can't make out an elbow imo. I personally left that game feeling really entertained and although we were second best in a couple of fights I didn't feel the team were bullied, as you say we all see things differently ;)
I agree Lord was going in for the check on Brown who say him coming and raised his arm to fend him off. It appeared to me that Brown caught Lord with the elbow and Lord looked shook up for a good 10 seconds before making his way to the bench. The game was entertaining but I thought Panthers had the physical edge. Perhaps from years of watching in the BBT I've become too accustomed to watching more physical teams!
 
#55
Based on his antics with 4 fights in a minute back in May, I don't think he's bothered about hurting people. He simply couldn't get Faryna down and bailed on the fight once Faryna started landing a couple.
Exactly this!!
Gagnon threw all his bombs, tired and when Faryna started banging back he didnt fancy it and took the fight down. By his hair so i've read??
So yes, Gagnon got the win but Faryna was still wanted to take it further, and may have evened it up a little. Thats how i saw it.
 

Slartibartfast

Well-Known Member
#56
That is the beauty of sport - everyone see's things slightly differently.

I thought the hit / elbow on Lord in the 1st minute with no reaction set the tone for the 1st period and we were outplayed / roughed up a little and very fortunate to come in level. I think the shot count was 14-5 in favour of the Panthers. Add in the fact Reddick was no choiced by a guy much bigger than him - again with no reaction from our players I think that points a little to being bullied. In years gone by both would have seen a reaction. Granted we upped our game in the 2nd, hit a bit more and were more clinical than Panthers with our chances, but I feel they came back at us again in the 3rd and it wasn't until Faryna dropped them with Gagnon in the last few minutes that we showed any reaction. However, most importantly won the game.

The number of fights or who wins is largely irrelevant - for me its more about reacting at the right time. I'm not for a minute saying we should have re-signed Bordy because he didn't live up to his billing either but I feel we are lacking slightly on the physical front this year. It's my opinion and I sincerly hope I'm proved wrong.
The early Lord incident happened right in front of me and I thought Lord just messed up his hit and hurt himself. However when I saw the replay from the camera on the other side of the arena it looks like the Panther lifted his elbow. (whether deliberately or not is hard to say). Its funny how angles can change perspectives.
 

Milky

Active Member
#57
I agree Lord was going in for the check on Brown who say him coming and raised his arm to fend him off. It appeared to me that Brown caught Lord with the elbow and Lord looked shook up for a good 10 seconds before making his way to the bench. The game was entertaining but I thought Panthers had the physical edge. Perhaps from years of watching in the BBT I've become too accustomed to watching more physical teams!
Really can't see what you're finding an issue with here. Lord lined the guy up for a big check and rather than stand there and take it, Brown rode it hard and bounced Lord off him. Fair hit and Lord came off the worse, nothing to see here and move on in my opinion. No reaction from our players was the right thing.

If it was the other way around you'd be signing his praises. There's no difference between this and the way Craig Weller bounced Corey Neilsen all those years ago in the BBT.
 

Foxy

Well-Known Member
#58
Lord in his interview didnt think the hit was dirty. He did say though that it was the hardest hit he had taken in a long time.
 
#59
I agree Lord was going in for the check on Brown who say him coming and raised his arm to fend him off. It appeared to me that Brown caught Lord with the elbow and Lord looked shook up for a good 10 seconds before making his way to the bench.
It looked pretty fair at the time, looking at the replay there's nothing for me to complain about (apart from the fact it was against us), contact is body to body to start and then lord just gets pushed over.

The main problem why it can be deceiving is you see the elbows move as brown pushes lord over in the follow through.

Reminds me of last season when joey martin did almost exactly the same (think it got reviewed later).


Oh and Mooney, thanks for the knowledge bomb.
Always something to learn about this game.
 

Milky

Active Member
#60
I don't think we've been bullied at all.

We made as many if not more hits than Nottingham in that game, certainly the biggest hits came from us. We didn't win either fight but who cares? The players weren't hurt, the crowd were pumped up for it and the team were too. You won't win every fight.

We also won the game quite convincingly, a bullied team wouldn't of won by that scoreline. I just think this whole perception of us being bullied is exactly that, a perception. I don't see us pulling out of hits, scared to go in the corners or any guys getting nailed and hurt. We're playing our own game and not being put off it. I fail to see how that is being bullied.

We have seen 5 fights this year already, 4 or which we have started or gone looking for, and are only a few weeks in with 6 months left of the season. Last season we only had 17 and that was with this apparent policeman who stopped our players being bullied. Except when Bowns was being run all year, or when Hendrikx jumped Lord after promising he'd take care of him, or Fitzgerald taking every opportunity to try and fight Hotham. Yeah that big, bad enforcer worked so well then didn't it? He had 2 fights, one he had no choice and the other was his own personal vendetta, neither was sticking up for his team mates.

Sorry but I think we have been bullied at times this season. I was at Guildford and as well as our basics being poor on the night we were second in everything in the physical department (apart from the Hotham and Haddad stuff). It's been apparent quite a few times this season.

As for your Bordy reference, I agree he didn't deliver what he was built up to deliver. However, you're way off the mark with your comments. Last year we had 17 fights in total. The previous year we had 43 and the year before that 46. I think the figures prove the point that nobody was interested in fighting us because of him. How many times did teams just dump the puck and turn over possession as he bore down on them? Can't really think of anyone taking liberties with us last season at all. Mcgratten said in an interview over the summer he had no intention of fighting Bordy last year. Think he knows what he's talking about.

Lord v Hendo was a personal thing that was a fair fight and settled on the night. I'm sure Lordo didn't want anyone fighting his battles and made it clear to the team.

And as for Fitzgerald (and any other team in the league to be fair) who wouldn't want to try and get into a fight with Hotham? League MVP, massive points production and huge minutes played. It's no coincidence he is always targeted, getting him in the bin for 5 is a good trade in anyones eyes. Don't tell me you've forgotten all of the times Bordy offered Fitzgerald out and he bottled it? Remember all the chants and Fitzy waving his arms about? The guy is a chicken.

Here's a prediction, without the 'Bordy effect' we will have far more fights this year as there is nothing to fear in our team. Yes we have tough guys (and fair play I've changed my opinion on Faryna - he's tough as nails) that will stand up and have a go, but we have no deterrent that scares the opposition.

Last year our players had an extra few feet of space to play with, I think this year we'll find it a lot tougher.

Love this team and still think we'll win the league.
 
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