Devils Vs Giants - 23/24 Nov 19 - League

JT666

Active Member
Putting aside the results, anyone else just bored?

Last ten minutes of Saturday were exciting score wise, but Louis and Masi (for all the wrong reasons!) aside, we pussy footed around them.

Sunday was far worse, with the one player who had the audacity to offer a fight to a Belfast player on the Saturday, being subsequently dropped!

Not entirely sure I see the point of signing a character player as they seem to arrive in Cardiff with an infamous reputation, have some kind of lobotomy on the first day of training, and spend the rest of the year playing so as not to offend.

It’s turgid and I suspect in the long run will turn people off the sport.
 

Mazzoak

Well-Known Member
I’m reading a lot of you can’t win the league in November comments and no need to panic. Whilst that’s true, you can certainly lose it in November.
Whatever is happening needs getting a grip of, this slump at this point has been repeating for, off the top of my head 4 yrs now, it was inevitably going to get worse & is. Players seem to come, play well then boom, here we are, again. Is it injuríes causing a lack of confidence & change in style. Is it conflict between management & coach, difference in business strategy, one side wanting family time, the other physical. I know Steve has attempted to put that point to bed. l‘d like to believe we fans get told the truth, only we’ve had previous owners tell the truth also, only their version of truth wasn’t always aligned with actions.
l’m certainly not comparing the past with the current, yet, l cannot predict the future. Just trying to make sense of why this is happening, why we don’t react the same as others and why there is this disparity.
 

august04

Well-Known Member
I'd love Steve king to reply on these matters as he always talks sense, and from the heart. I bet he's as pissed at our performances as we are. He said we signed a faster more aggressive team at the start of the season, I've not seen it yet . IMO all the newbies are downgrades ? Let's pray we can turn this around.
It’s not just about the newbies though. Many of our returning imports are having poorer seasons - in fact it’s probably only Joey Haddad and surprisingly perhaps for many, Matt Pope, who are performing better than last year. Our goaltending hasn’t been great, but we haven’t helped Bowns at times with our shambolic defending. Brit-wise, I think Batch, Myers and Duggan have been very good, I just wish they had more ice time as these guys give everything but are often the first to see their ice time cut when we’re struggling.
I just wonder whether we’re thinking too much and overplaying. We seem to try to over complicate everything, always looking for the perfect play instead of getting a man in the goalie’s face and taking the shot - and Lord is renowned for his intensity and attention to detail. Maybe their individual games are being stifled by complicated systems? All these guys are good players, and they are certainly better than we are seeing. Sometimes it’s about freeing minds and allowing players to play their natural games, without fear of making mistakes. We see it in football occasionally, when the message from the very top coaches is just not getting through anymore because there’s so much going on in the players heads. John Lawless and Gerad Adams weren’t the greatest coaches or tacticians but their man management was fantastic and the players would skate through brick walls for them. I just don’t get that feeling with this team. Maybe the answer could be to lighten up a little, have some fun off the ice this week, then let the guys play with freedom and just go for it - it couldn’t get any worse!
 

JT666

Active Member
Turgid
That was a new one for me.
I looked it up. - not sure if it is a suitable description . Hey ho , we all see things differently.
Turgid; If you describe something such as a piece of writing or a film as turgid, you think it is boring and difficult to understand.

E.g. He used to make extremely dull, turgid and frankly boring speeches.

I’m sure the fancy soft style we play is very technically modern, and works on paper, but give me a hard hitting characterful team style instead every day.

@august04 has put it better than me above. It’s probably a coaching style that is taught nowadays, but ironically it’s the opposite of how Lord used to play.
 

moggy#9

Well-Known Member
I think the problem is that teams do their research and learn to play against us. Just watch how other teams will try to emulate the Belfast approach. The scouting of Belfast didn't do us much good though. I can't understand why, with a goalie like Owens we're not forcing him to move laterally to open up space or get someone camped in Gretzky's office to make it difficult for him to track the play. We seem to be predictable. Similarly if a team does a high press that should open up space elsewhere. We simply don't seem to be able to counter the counter.
 
I think the team is just missing confidence & chemistry.

i’ll admit, I don’t want for physical play and I don’t subscribe to that style of play. Check for a purpose, like separate a player from the puck, otherwise, I don’t see the point. Why put ourselves in the position of allowing a ref to make a penalty call?
I like that Haddad & Pope are one-timing the puck. I wish we had more players doing it. Get the puck on net, at speed, don’t let the goalie get set. Do things faster, not going around and around the net with seemingly no one to drop the puck off to. I so enjoyed seeing the Frolunda forwards coming down the ice at full pelt, passing the puck through to the team mate who was past the D, shot on goal.
 

august04

Well-Known Member
I think the team is just missing confidence & chemistry.

i’ll admit, I don’t want for physical play and I don’t subscribe to that style of play. Check for a purpose, like separate a player from the puck, otherwise, I don’t see the point. Why put ourselves in the position of allowing a ref to make a penalty call?
I like that Haddad & Pope are one-timing the puck. I wish we had more players doing it. Get the puck on net, at speed, don’t let the goalie get set. Do things faster, not going around and around the net with seemingly no one to drop the puck off to. I so enjoyed seeing the Frolunda forwards coming down the ice at full pelt, passing the puck through to the team mate who was past the D, shot on goal.
You say you don’t like physical hockey but marvelled at the play of Frolunda. But the SHL is one of the hardest checking leagues in the world and terrific to watch. In fact, the SHL style of play is just what I’d like to see in the EIHL (albeit with lesser skilled players sadly). It really isn’t fancy dan Euro hockey with no physicality.
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
It’s not just about the newbies though. Many of our returning imports are having poorer seasons - in fact it’s probably only Joey Haddad and surprisingly perhaps for many, Matt Pope, who are performing better than last year. Our goaltending hasn’t been great, but we haven’t helped Bowns at times with our shambolic defending. Brit-wise, I think Batch, Myers and Duggan have been very good, I just wish they had more ice time as these guys give everything but are often the first to see their ice time cut when we’re struggling.
I just wonder whether we’re thinking too much and overplaying. We seem to try to over complicate everything, always looking for the perfect play instead of getting a man in the goalie’s face and taking the shot - and Lord is renowned for his intensity and attention to detail. Maybe their individual games are being stifled by complicated systems? All these guys are good players, and they are certainly better than we are seeing. Sometimes it’s about freeing minds and allowing players to play their natural games, without fear of making mistakes. We see it in football occasionally, when the message from the very top coaches is just not getting through anymore because there’s so much going on in the players heads. John Lawless and Gerad Adams weren’t the greatest coaches or tacticians but their man management was fantastic and the players would skate through brick walls for them. I just don’t get that feeling with this team. Maybe the answer could be to lighten up a little, have some fun off the ice this week, then let the guys play with freedom and just go for it - it couldn’t get any worse!
Many good observations here. The team do seem to be over complicating plays at times.. almost looking for text book style powerplay system, fancy passing in the rush, lots of recycling.... and limited shooting. Almost as if no-one wants the accountability to take the final shot when a simple booming slapshot or forceful accurate one timer would put the opposition goalie pressure. Or creating constant traffic close to the net to get the goalie moving.

When did we last see the players looking happy? No-one seems to be having fun out there at the moment. If their natural style is curtailed by systems they are trying to execute they will feel frustrated. An inconsistent string of performances does nothing for confidence.
 
Last edited:

Samael

Well-Known Member
Didn't see either game due to work commitments but it sounds like l didn't miss much.

l don't envy a coach's job, whatever is going on in the locker room at the moment clearly isn't conducive to results and an entertaining on ice product.

We as a fanbase have been spoiled the last few years and l think this year it simply looks like we just aren't good enough or consistent to keep up with the arena teams.
l expect we will decide who wins the league this year but l don't think it will be us.

Sucks to be in this position so early, now l see why the Panthers fans are so apathetic over on the cage.
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
I'd agree with most of that but, based on the performances I've seen I'm struggling to see what Riley brings.
To be perfectly honest Moggy, myself and a few friends in private have joked about the difference between what we saw when 'Belfast' Riley came to the rink, and what we've seen so far from 'Cardiff Riley'. (please don't think i'm bashing the player as that's the last thing i'm trying to do).
There's a couple of things we've established though (well, *think* would be a better word).

1) Injury - he picked up a nasty injury early on, and took a couple of weeks out of the squad as a result
2) Coaching - Is he being preached to backcheck HARD firstly, and finish checks second? (This is a question nobody can answer)
3) Different style of play - similar to coaching - Keefe likes crash bang, Lord likes skill and finesse - both have been effective in league titles and 1st/2nd places so not knocking that.

And finally, his production IS there, is it on par with "Belfast" Riley's production? No. But then, is that his fault? - The team around him isn't producing at last years rate either, so that's more of a collective than anything, also, another year older, a new team, new teammates, new rink...

Similarly; and again - i'm just spouting ideas; Lord seems to get guys working as a collective far more than any other coach; I'd be fascinated to see the ice time between individual guys so far this season per game, as it feels like we roll our lines very equally between 1-2-3 and for the most part line 4 also.

Was this the case in Belfast last year? Did they roll 1-2 very heavily?

And my final favourite stat - 2016-2017 (One win away from the clean sweep in PO Final)
Not one single player broke 20 goals in the regular season.
(As near as makes no difference) - no player broke the point per game mark through the season
The GOAT managed 'only' 53 points - 14 less than any other season as a Devil.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
For me it’s just an out and out question of charecter. The players are all highly skilled and talented guys fully capable of winning the league. I can take guys taking dumb penalties, mis handling pucks etc etc and generally being in bad form if they are showing the desire to fight through it and not wollow in their mis fortune. But these guys seem happy to blame it on poor form and feel sorry for themselves as if losing is acceptable in those circumstances. They have to find a way of making themselves relevant even if it’s not putting the puck in the net.
Hence when a team like Belfast are running out a score on you you have to pose a different challenge to them. Farnham should have been slapped silly for his chirps and threats. I can live with an instigator at that point. The Devils and Giants net fronts should have been war zones. Stand their guys up on the opposition blue physically so the neutral zone is a no go and get to that forecheck and sit their guys down. They may have sneaked another goal or two but they will also know don’t poke the bear to much. These guys can’t be one dimensional pre Madonna’s. And I think as some have said don’t be so sterile and take losing in the chin. Hate it and take it out on someone. Genuine question to the Devils players is where are the unselfish players who’ll do what needs to be done as all I see is a bunch of pro’s going about their business looking for a season of mediocrity and zero accountability.
Joey Martin really needs to earn it right now and challenge his team from within to be difference makers in any way they can.
 

bb1

Well-Known Member
For me we just look like we have zero confidence and some guys do seem to be coasting more because they just seem to be out of ideas.

I loved the idea of Riley signing and we all know what he is capable of but since his injury he has been half the player. Faryna arguably not as talented but had more piss and vinegar than anyone I've seen since Lordo himself on the ice. This is what we are missing this season someone who can lead by example and change the game. Only God knows how much louder the noise from block 13 would be if we had someone like Faryna or Lordo out there!!! The place would erupt.

Morrissonn is a superb pick up and for anyone to judge a guy who has played with Ovi for a few seasons after 2 games needs to have a talk with themselves! The guy clearly isn't here for the £££££ as hes done pretty well for himself over his career. He will get better and better as the days go by and will standout for us imo.

We need a boost in speed and physicality....can we get this from our current roster?!?! I really am struggling to see where it will come from to be honest because we have been in a slump since the CHL and quite frankly it hasn't improved which is worrying for me. As soon as we get an injection of this from whatever route Lord decides to take to obtain it then the goals will come.
 
Last edited:
Top