Cardiff Devils v MK Lightning - Sat 30 Dec 2017 - League - FO 7pm - Chat/Updates

Ocko

Well-Known Member
#21
Paris is just going through a bad bit of form. He started off the year well he's just not at his best. It'll come back. But at the same time Louis hasn't shown anything since coming back from injury either. He has a simple job on that line but Piggsy is showing more IMO.

I like Louis but he isn't a 'premium EIHL defensemen' for me. 1 point all year v Paris 14 points, you just don't replace a player with 14 points with someone with 1. Fournier is also showing his best ever form for us, changing his D partner might not be the best idea.
 

jenks33

Well-Known Member
#22
Paris is just going through a bad bit of form. He started off the year well he's just not at his best. It'll come back. But at the same time Louis hasn't shown anything since coming back from injury either. He has a simple job on that line but Piggsy is showing more IMO.

I like Louis but he isn't a 'premium EIHL defensemen' for me. 1 point all year v Paris 14 points, you just don't replace a player with 14 points with someone with 1. Fournier is also showing his best ever form for us, changing his D partner might not be the best idea.
Sorry Ocko but I don’t think Paris has played well all season. I don’t think this is just going through a bad bit of form. I also don’t think you can compare Paris and Louis’ attributes. Louis is never going to score many points, it’s all about his defensive game. And Paris has played a lot of minutes on the PP so it’s no surprise that he’s got a few assists. He’s scored one goal tho, when you consider how much ice time he’s had on the PP and that he has a rocket of a shot that’s a poor return.
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#23
Louis is not the point scoring defenceman in his partnership with Fournier, though, is he? Just as Strachan is the blue liner who would not be expected to put up many points. Because Louis has scored less points than Paris doesn't make him less effective. On defence these two players play different roles and have different styles.

Paris was described when he joined Devils as a defenceman who likes to jump into attacking play and utilised on the pp.
Whilst I understand it may not be wise to change defence pairings now they seem settled, there is no denying that Fournier and Louis have made a great partnership.

I am convincing myself that Mark is being utilised as a forward to cover 3 gritty forwards out with injury at the moment because he can play that position and will return to defence eventually. His reduced ice-time is still mystifying, though.
 
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august04

Well-Known Member
#24
Paris is just going through a bad bit of form. He started off the year well he's just not at his best. It'll come back. But at the same time Louis hasn't shown anything since coming back from injury either. He has a simple job on that line but Piggsy is showing more IMO.

I like Louis but he isn't a 'premium EIHL defensemen' for me. 1 point all year v Paris 14 points, you just don't replace a player with 14 points with someone with 1. Fournier is also showing his best ever form for us, changing his D partner might not be the best idea.
Paris has been poor all year, a huge disappointment given the level of expectation with his signing and what we were told he would bring to the team. He was on the PP until only recently, so that’s where most of his points will have come and has had way more ice time. And Louis is a defensive D man, so comparing points between the two is frankly ridiculous. Louis and Fournier were one of the best D pairings in the EIHL last year. A perfect combo with Fournier's offensive upside matched by Louis' defensive responsibilities. I’d say that makes Louis a premium EIHL defenceman (who knows his job first and foremost is how to defend). That pairing hasn’t had a look in this year. I can’t think of many others from other teams I’d want over Louis.
 

jenks33

Well-Known Member
#25
Paris has been poor all year, a huge disappointment given the level of expectation with his signing and what we were told he would bring to the team. He was on the PP until only recently, so that’s where most of his points will have come and has had way more ice time. And Louis is a defensive D man, so comparing points between the two is frankly ridiculous. Louis and Fournier were one of the best D pairings in the EIHL last year. A perfect combo with Fournier's offensive upside matched by Louis' defensive responsibilities. I’d say that makes Louis a premium EIHL defenceman (who knows his job first and foremost is how to defend). That pairing hasn’t had a look in this year. I can’t think of many others from other teams I’d want over Louis.
Hear, Hear
 

Ocko

Well-Known Member
#26
I'm under no illusion how different they are as players. But, Paris whilst not playing that great, has still been solid enough to allow Fournier to flourish; he's certainly improved on last year and is now one of the best in the league. More points doesn't make a player better, but you take those points away youll need to find them from elsewhere as you are replacing him with someone who will only get a point or two for the rest of the year.

Sorry but Louis isn't premium, he's not within the top 5 D men on our team let alone the EIHL. He also hasn't shown anything in a relatively simple role to warrant returning to the blueline. There is obviously a reason he isn't playing at the moment, it's not fitness as Lord would play himself if he wasn't fit. Do you think Lord is missing something that you're seeing?
 

sjkelly07

Active Member
#27
Okay we're on a streak but I would still partner Louis with Fournier in a heart beat. I have been so disappointed with Paris this season, he joined us from a decent league with a big reputation. At 6'4" this guy should be a presence back there, but he's weak, he was at fault for two of MKs goals last night, yet again being pushed around by forwards half his size. If only he had the grit and heart of a Bryce Reddick or even the composure and hockey brain of a Tyson Strachan, but unfortunately he has neither. As people have said, there's no point comparing his stats with Louis', he's played the majority of the season on the pp, I'm sure even Dease could make a pass to either Martin or Hotham and let them do the rest. Louis showed forward potential on the line with Batch and Moore, but ultimately he's a defenceman, the sooner we get him back partnering Fournier the better. IN MY OPINION
 

jimmy snels

Well-Known Member
#28
Were we ever told louis was injured?? I might have missed it but we had updates on haddad moore etc recently but not one on louis i seen.


I thought we dominated last night and if not for a couple of really weak plays scoreline would be a bigger difference! Mom for me hotham again!
 
#29
I’m with sjkells on this one. The guy has no physicality about his game whatsoever, he won’t say boo to a goose! Gets out played and out muscled most of the time.
I’d like to see Louis back getting ice time, he’s going down the same road as Batch at the moment.
But we’re top of the league.
Good win yesterday, although Nickerson looked like a fish out of water. He’s too slow and sloppy for this league now.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#30
I get what people are saying and I can understand that people want everyone firing but we're winning and winning well at the moment. The balance of the team seems spot on. Having Louis playing well on D would that mean we would win by 8 instead of six or only concede 1 instead of 2 or 3? No one could possibly know that. I'm a big fan of Louis and I thought he had a huge season last season. Some of his goals towards the end were brilliant but he's doing a job at the moment. It might not be the job we want him doing or what we saw from him last year but by him doing that job means that others do theirs. Paris, yep hasn't set the world a light yet but he's playing well enough (a few shaky moments last night) but he's doing well. He won't score a rocket every game, he might not score at all but the balance is there.
Think back to last season, Joey Haddad wasn't on fire all year. He came alive in the second half and blew the league away. Even Joey Martin struggled at the start of the this season. Look at Jake Morrisette now. The guys is on fire. I certainly didn't expect him to be wading in with the goals he is at the moment but that is probably making up for the lack of goals elsewhere (Pope, Crowder or Batch - they might be poor examples but hopefully you get my point). I'd love my first and second line to all be in the top 10 goal scorers and point scorers and my 3rd and 4th lines being a menace but it just doesn't play out that way.

I guess what I'm saying and this is my view from playing pro sport for a number of years is that I've never seen a team or played in a team where everyone is firing at the same time. It just doesn't happen. We're on a 12 game streak and it isn't happening here. Even when we broke the world record for the longest winning streak it didn't happen then, we still wanted more from certain players.
I'd love to see Louis back to where he was last year but do we know that it would improve the team or detract from others performances? I can't see Lord making changes to Louis' role when the team are sitting where they are now, with the results they are clocking up and you can't really blame him.
 
#31
I’ve read many time here when we’ve won important games that the team was sublime and all players contributed. For me it’s 2 pts taken against an average team. Long may they continue.


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#32
Once again the player(s) know when they are not performing and its upto Lordo to deal with this please don't call them out, enjoy the winning streak it won't last forever.
 

E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#33
I’ve read many time here when we’ve won important games that the team was sublime and all players contributed. For me it’s 2 pts taken against an average team. Long may they continue.


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But the reality is that is never true. Not every player plays "sublime". It's purely personal opinion and many times the result can hide other performances. It's the Team performance and the result that matters. We have the right balance and are playing well. We can only beat what is in front of us, "average" or not. 6 goals and 3 conceded is a good return especially against a team who have turned us over this season. I'll take that.
 
#34
I’ve read many time here when we’ve won important games that the team was sublime and all players contributed. For me it’s 2 pts taken against an average team.
Couldn't agree more. I'm not sure how accurate it is to assess a team's performance when the game is so one sided. Yes we are on a big winning streak, but with the exception of the recent Coventry games I don't feel we've really been tested over this period. We are top of the league but is it just because we are a bit better than the average mid table teams and the other arena teams are not clicking at the moment? I think so. I'm craving more close, gritty hockey but it seems a rarity this season!
 

ASHIPP

Well-Known Member
#35
When Louis became unavailable through injury, our defence was struggling with the absence of a solid blue liner. The pairings were mixed up, often played as a 'rolling' defence and team performance was inconsistent. The signing of Tyson Strachan resolved that situation by bringing in a solid, calming, experienced blue liner.
Mark's absence from the lineup didn't cause that problem. There were many comments on here early on in the season that the defence appeared far to offensively weighted with only Richie and Louis as blue line defencemen.

The coaches make the decisions - there must be a reason why Louis is not playing with his natural partner but we won't know why. Just hope that Louis and Fournier will eventually be re-partnered.

And Gleason's outstanding performances are down to his own motivation and skill this season. To suggest his current partner has somehow turned him into the fantastic player we knew he was going to be is a bit daft as we saw these flashes of brilliance last year.
 
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#36
But the reality is that is never true. Not every player plays "sublime". It's purely personal opinion and many times the result can hide other performances. It's the Team performance and the result that matters. We have the right balance and are playing well. We can only beat what is in front of us, "average" or not. 6 goals and 3 conceded is a good return especially against a team who have turned us over this season. I'll take that.
My opinion is top winning sports people/teams are better, sublime whatever you choose to call it, more than their not. That is the difference. The results tend to mimic that fact also.


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E.D.S.

Well-Known Member
#37
My opinion is top winning sports people/teams are better, sublime whatever you choose to call it, more than their not. That is the difference. The results tend to mimic that fact also.


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But as a collective you rarely get everyone firing which is my point. I’m not sure if you’re agreeing or disagreeing. Apologies I can’t make it out.


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#38
But as a collective you rarely get everyone firing which is my point. I’m not sure if you’re agreeing or disagreeing. Apologies I can’t make it out.


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I disagree that you rarely get everyone firing as a collective, more so when your collective are at their peak. That’s my view point of your example in which you stated you’d gained from your experience in professional sport. I’ve watched world champions play weekly, whilst the odd player occasionally had an off game, the majority of games the team played at the top level that the league produced. It’s logic, as a team not performing can only remain at that level if that level collectively dropped.

Within the EIHL l agree with you, because we don’t have top flight talent across the board. I’m sure many will disagree, but it’s a fact. Players in our league come with issues. Those issue will inevitable negatively impact on the rest.


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#39
Josh Williamson (aka Electro) why do you have to turn every thread into a pernickety, juvenile argument - its really irritating.

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RedDevil17

Well-Known Member
#40
I’m with sjkells on this one. The guy has no physicality about his game whatsoever, he won’t say boo to a goose! Gets out played and out muscled most of the time.
I’d like to see Louis back getting ice time, he’s going down the same road as Batch at the moment.
But we’re top of the league.
Good win yesterday, although Nickerson looked like a fish out of water. He’s too slow and sloppy for this league now.
Nickerson May be slow but Paris is even slower!! I’d take Nickerson over Paris in a heartbeat plus Nickerson is always game for a fight and he’s relatively tough. I’m not one to criticise players but I’ve been very disappointed with Paris. I’d drop Paris, have Lou on D and have Reddick as a forward.
 
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