Cardiff Devils forced to wait for new home

[thornem3]

Looks like we'll be in the tent a little longer

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/w...m-forced-to-wait-for-new-home-91466-22749242/

 

[Koop11]

Not a big surprise, especially after the news just before Christmas that the Bay Pointe project was being thrown out. It is now in black and white that we will be in the tent for several years.

Hopefully, this is the call for the Council to invest a much smaller amount of money into improving the temporary facility. That structure will not last several years in its current state. That is a fact we all know. Cladding and reinforcement will be needed and from a Devils point of view, we’ll certainly require investment into increasing the tents hospitality facilities. How on earth you do that with the current structure I do not know.

My only major concern with the tent from day one as been the sightlines. It’s a hard battle bring fans in when you cannot see a third of the ice from some of the seats. The way the stairways are located block peoples view also. I’m no civil engineer but I would imagine the cost of trying to fix this particular problem would be more than rebuilding the thing all over again.

The recent economic crisis has hurt all local authorities across the country and in fairness to the CCC, they could not have predicted what has happened. That said, this highlights their total disregard of the skating community when they decided to let cowboys build the tent at a minimal cost. It’s now bitten us on the bum. I think many fans could cope with the poor sightlines for the 3-5 years from opening but we’re probably looking at 10 years in the tent from start to finish.

I think any regeneration work to the tent will depend a lot of who obtains the lease when its due for renewal later this year.

 

[Chris]

I can already hear El Supremo wailing...

Hopefully Matt Burge can get the lease for the rink, presumeably with the income from public skating and whatever else it would make improvements a lot more likely?

I'd imagine things would be a lot more Devils related as well if Matt Burge was to take over, the publicity possibilities must be an incentive.

But it's still not certain, so we'll all just have to wait and see

Chris.

 

[Soundwave1]

Ok this is more of a long-shot, but with the delay looking to be a few years and the fact that Live Nation are likely to operate the new arena eventually, what's the possibility of putting ice down at the CIA?

Then, in however many years time the whole operation would move down to the new arena.

This would obviously make a big difference in terms of sponsorship and I doubt would cost more than the upgrades necessary for the blue tent to host Elite hockey. (I'm assuming the cash needed to keep the rink going for all the other activities that go on there would be a lot less)

Also, the CIA isn't that big, so would be a good intermediary between the tent and new arena.

The CIA misses out on a lot of tours because it isn't big enough, so could welcome the additional income?

Perhaps the Council (who we now have a good relationship with) could help broker a deal with Live nation/CIA?

Failing that, Chris's suggestion will be ever more important.

 

[Gazza272]

I can already hear El Supremo wailing...

Hopefully Matt Burge can get the lease for the rink, presumeably with the income from public skating and whatever else it would make improvements a lot more likely?

I'd imagine things would be a lot more Devils related as well if Matt Burge was to take over, the publicity possibilities must be an incentive.

But it's still not certain, so we'll all just have to wait and see

Chris.

With Planet ice record of maintaining facilities which are much more permanant than ours i think it would be foolish of the council to allow them to operate the tent if its going to be here for the long term.


That is of course only if there are people interested in taking it over.

 

[Finny]

I think the CIA has always been a big no-no due to its shape meaning there would be insufficient seating.

Until I win the Euromillions and build us our own rink we are going to be here for quite a few years. And so we need to make improvements to it.

As Koop said, the major problem with the current rink is the sightlines. Not only the angle of the seats, but the stupid staircases in the way too.

Does anyone know which is the most expensive part of building the rink?
i.e. if the iceplant and the plumbing/cabling etc is all pretty much there - how much would it cost to sort the rest of it out?

If possible at the end of the season I would:
-remove the outershell of the tent and build a stronger cladding around it. And also make the roof strong enough to hold a TV gantry.
-Removing the seating balconies and when they are rebuilt, drop them about 2 foot and with a better angle.
-Move the stairs to the back of the blocks.

Ideally I would make more improvements (bigger bar/corporate boxes) but I would have though that this could be done without a huge amount of spending and could be done through the summer months.

 

[Wannabe2]

Ok this is more of a long-shot, but with the delay looking to be a few years and the fact that Live Nation are likely to operate the new arena eventually, what's the possibility of putting ice down at the CIA?

Then, in however many years time the whole operation would move down to the new arena.

This would obviously make a big difference in terms of sponsorship and I doubt would cost more than the upgrades necessary for the blue tent to host Elite hockey. (I'm assuming the cash needed to keep the rink going for all the other activities that go on there would be a lot less)

Also, the CIA isn't that big, so would be a good intermediary between the tent and new arena.

The CIA misses out on a lot of tours because it isn't big enough, so could welcome the additional income?

Perhaps the Council (who we now have a good relationship with) could help broker a deal with Live nation/CIA?

Failing that, Chris's suggestion will be ever more important.

May be wrong about what i am to say, but i believe the council had something like £16 million pounds of european funding, towards the development of the sports village, but it had to consist of water, snow, and ice. The pool is the water, caneoing also, the ice is our gaff, and the snow well i think thats melted. We are down the bay now, and thats our destiny. Myself i think the best thing at the moment would be to give matt the operators licence, and do whatever refurbishing we need to do to see us out for maybe another 5yrs or so, we need to sort the site lines thats a fact. Think if all the revenue from the rink was pumped back into it, we could end up with a fairly good venue, and also be able to compete at the highest level.

 

[steve]

If there was to be significant investment in the tent to facilitate us for the foreseeable, then i can realistically see a scenario where we end up playing there long term. If the arena becomes a fairly decent home, then unless we see a surge in interest, i dont think we would move to play in a new multi purpose arena whenever it may be built (simply because of the cost, when a suitable alternative exists).

As such we end up playing hockey in a max 2,500 capacity home for some years to come.

So do we resist any investment and keep pushing the issue that we are playing in a tent and need something permanent,or do we accept any investment offered and risk being there a long time?

 

[Cap]

The ideal thing of course would be for Matt Burge to have the running of the rink,which would maybe give some revenue to do improvements on the tent you would think.But since the rink would still belong to the council agreement would still have to be obtained from them for that. That is IF Matt is interested in running the whole rink. I think PI still want to run it so he would face stiff opposition.

The CIA scenario would never work,they are always having something on there so any games would need to fit in with any events.And putting down the ice then removing it which they do with holiday on ice etc would be such a head ache for them there.

I think the tent will be there for a few years yet to come.I think that has always been the council's intention.However,with the credit crunch at the moment,and I think things will get a lot worse with that before they get better,I am not at all sure how much money for improvements will be forthcoming from the council for the tent.But,and this is a very important but, the council now get on with the owner who is very pro-active and maybe a request from him would be paid attention to.As for rebuilding or doing anything to improve sight lines though,that would be way out of budget.That was looked into by Sorac and the council at a meeting a couple of years ago and it was said it was a no goer.

 

[El Supremo]

Well this sucks. I was kinda looking forward to one day watching the Devils out of a warm comfy arena but we all know that that will now never happen. If we are to stay in the Bay I'd expect the following as a minimum from the council:

- improved sightlines (maybe raise the angle of the seating);
- complete the bowl of seating bringing the capacity closer to 3,000-3,500;
- re-clad the outside;
- put in a tv gantry;
- improve hospitality.

If any of the above are not completed then I really do fear for the long term health of the Devils and I think we should start looking at alternatives (like the CIA).

 

[Chris]

complete the bowl of seating bringing the capacity closer to 3,000-3,500;

Why? We don't regularly pull more than 2000 fans now?

If any of the above are not completed then I really do fear for the long term health of the Devils and I think we should start looking at alternatives (like the CIA).

Did you just choose to ignore the replies relating to the CIA? Did you even bother to read them?

Chris.

 

[osh]

Who ever dreamed up the title INTERNATIONAL SPORTS VILLAGE certainly had a great sense of humour, because ISV concept in Cardiff is just a joke !! If all had gone well, we would have had a swimming pool ( long overdue ) an arena complete with ice rink, and a white water complex for kayaking canoeing etc. The rest of the complex would have been made up of shops, bars, restaurants ( according to Mr Rodney Berman ) It hardly warrants the misleading title of and International Sports Village does it ?

In my opinion, the arena/ ice rink facility should now be nearing completion, hot on the heels of the swimming pool complex. They should have adequately replaced the structures that had already existed in central Cardiff, and then added such things as the white water complex. But to have such structures in amongst commercial buildings just doesn't work as an ISV.

We were always second best when it came to building a home for skating and ice hockey, and it will remain that way for many years to come Im afraid to say.

 

[El Supremo]

complete the bowl of seating bringing the capacity closer to 3,000-3,500;

Why? We don't regularly pull more than 2000 fans now?

If any of the above are not completed then I really do fear for the long term health of the Devils and I think we should start looking at alternatives (like the CIA).

Did you just choose to ignore the replies relating to the CIA? Did you even bother to read them?

Chris.

RE: 2000 fans

We don't get more than 2000 fans now but I (and I'm sure Mr Burge) sure hope we'll be able to pull in quite a few more punters in the coming season. The Devils are obviosuly confident of this otherwise they wouldn't be pushing for a new arena.

RE: CIA

Yes I did read the note and no I didn't chose to ignore it. No one said playing out of their would be impossibe (unless of course it really is geometrically too small). Indeed, now it may be a more viable option (i.e. people may be looking at it more seriously).

 

[Wannabe2]

Without wanting to sound aweful, we have to be at the bay, unfortunately we are at the hands of the council, and it will be the bay or nowhere. The Devils now live at the bay, and at the bay they will stay until we have enough dosh to do our own thing. Matt is now the gaffer, and what he decides for the Devils is what the devils will have, i am with you El on some things, and my god if we are given the word to raise HELL then that is exactly what we will do, but our new professional owners will decide what is best, and that is exactly how it should be. On the positive side, i would prefer to be in this position with Matt at the helm, than with you know who.

 

[Dwoods]

Always said that the sightlines would be the biggest obstacle that we have down the Blue Tent in terms of trying to fill the place...have always said that whoever designed it needed shooting - even had dialogue with Mr Berman on the poor design etc...how they can design something that has the angle of the seats wrong and then to compound the problem they put the stair-wells at the front - a 5 year old can see that the better design would be to have the stairs going to the back of the blocks...

Anyway, that is by the by cos we are stuck with it - and fair play to the current organisation, they have made the best of the bad hand they have been dealt with. Luckily we do have a great owner and a great off ice team backing him up, things off the ice have never been in better hands. So lets hope something can be sorted with regards up-grading our tent a bit. I think we all knew deep down that we were always gonna be here for longer than we were told...

In all honesty, if they were to sort the sightlines, the corporate stuff, the sounds system etc - then that could be a cracking venue for us...

One thing I will say about the CIA though - I am sure that venue was looked at - but it was found that it cannot actually hold a full size ice hockey pad - the way the CIA has been built means it can never accomodate us...so that is a definitely a no go...

Onwards we go....

 

[mp43]

Out of curiosity,does anyone know if matt burge is interested in the lease on the rink? It would make good business sense,Honest Bob used to make a small fortune from public skating,bars etc

 

[El Supremo]

Always said that the sightlines would be the biggest obstacle that we have down the Blue Tent in terms of trying to fill the place...have always said that whoever designed it needed shooting - even had dialogue with Mr Berman on the poor design etc...how they can design something that has the angle of the seats wrong and then to compound the problem they put the stair-wells at the front - a 5 year old can see that the better design would be to have the stairs going to the back of the blocks...

Anyway, that is by the by cos we are stuck with it - and fair play to the current organisation, they have made the best of the bad hand they have been dealt with. Luckily we do have a great owner and a great off ice team backing him up, things off the ice have never been in better hands. So lets hope something can be sorted with regards up-grading our tent a bit. I think we all knew deep down that we were always gonna be here for longer than we were told...

In all honesty, if they were to sort the sightlines, the corporate stuff, the sounds system etc - then that could be a cracking venue for us...

One thing I will say about the CIA though - I am sure that venue was looked at - but it was found that it cannot actually hold a full size ice hockey pad - the way the CIA has been built means it can never accomodate us...so that is a definitely a no go...

Onwards we go....

I think we're going backwards... :roll:

^^^ Do you know what element of an ice rink the CIA couldn't accomodate? I've had a look at the CIA specs and it seems that it's big enough (71m x 60m not including the 8m stage). Would the only problem be an ice plant? If CCC threw some money at the CIA I'm sure something could be done.

They even say on their website that they can hold 3,602 people with an ice rink in.

http://music.livenation.co.uk/cia/ArenaDetails.asp

 

[nmase20]

yeah they probably mean a 'holiday on ice' type ice rink, not a proper ice rink. There is no way you could fit a big enough ice rink and seating into the CIA, and if you were going to attempt it, it would mean a hell of a refurb of the entire place, you'd have to take the balcony out. We're better of staying where we are and getting some work done to that.

 

[Koop11]

El – you have to get in your head around the fact that the CIA is simply not a viable option. It cannot hold the size ice pad required. Even if that was not a problem, the cost along to get ice up and down, the rental costs for the arena itself and the timetabling we would receive (a lot of mid week games) would not warrant a break even team, let alone a any kind of profit margin.

El, the CIA WILL NEVER HAPPEN so jump out of dreamland for realise that. As Wannabe has said, we’re down the bay to stay.

IMO I feel the council own it to the skating community a smaller investment to improve the temporary facility that is now permanent. That does included sorting out the biggest problem of all, the sightlines. However, CCC have very little regard to the skating community and right now with the economic climate the way it is, they have much bigger fish to fry in fairness.

I do agree with Wannabe in that we have brilliant owner who will no doubt have a contingency plan. We know that the tent will now need a good chunk of money to improve it. Whether that comes from the council, the new lease owner, private investment or sponsorship.

As I said before, the future of our rink will depend heavily on who has the lease of the rink. Take note CCC.

 

[Finny]

Out of curiosity,does anyone know if matt burge is interested in the lease on the rink? It would make good business sense,Honest Bob used to make a small fortune from public skating,bars etc

If Matt Burge was interested then it would make sense to keep it quiet. Publically announcing that you are trying to take the place of your current landlord - would not make good business sense.