Devils v Giants - Sun 4 Mar 2018 - Challege Cup Final - FO 6pm - Chat/Udates

Hedd Wyn John

Well-Known Member
Just a couple of points...

1) The intro was viewed by management and greenlit before being played. They always are.
2) I created it under the impression it would be the first video played, and only our players / fans and Giants fans would see it. Only found out it was second when I arrived at IAW, and too late to change anything by then. History shows, like the Semi Final intro, that it is written by the winners. I even publicly said on SM this week that I had left it all out there for the intro. We're a passionate fanbase.
3) My mandate was to pump up our fans. I genuinely think the volume of the response to it tonight says I didn't completely miss my mark.
4) for the last 4 CC finals, both teams have been invited to provide an intro, for what has always supposed to be a neutral venue. Both teams did that, and had free reign to send whatever they wished. This being played in Cardiff does nothing to reflect a lack of neutrality. Could have been at any of the previous finals.
5) Happy to admit I'm not flawless.
6) The intro is not why we lost.
7) This is one out of four Championships, the three remaining ones are still all within our grasp.

Just wanted to throw a couple of truths out instead of rumour and conjecture. We're all hurting right now.
Thanks all for the feedback, and to those who stopped and made comments at IAW tonight. Always appreciated and welcome.
on the whole the intros are really popular but people make mistakes. There’s a fine line between confidence and arrogance and on this occasion that line was crossed. I cringed when I watched it & wasnt the only one. Management shouldn’t have green lit it but what’s done is done. The Devils need to show that we are respectful organisation & the intro unfortunately sent the wrong message. We were rightly flamed for it on social media. We Devils fans are right to be passionate about our team and expectations are high due to recent success but what we don’t want to do is to become overconfident or arrogant. It probably wasn’t that intention in the intro video but that’s how it came across st the time.
 
what worries me is we seem to be losing every other game.3 defeats in the last 6 of which two have been heavy defeats and the game against storm we could only manage a goal in the last minute.are we seeing the devils fading as we did the season before last because we are not playing our full bench?i think we will win the league but I don't think we will have anything left in the tank come the play offs.belfast won with ease which is a huge worry for us.hopefull this will be the spark to spark us back into form as we really haven't been playing well for weeks and maybe needed a wake up call.
 

Mooney#16

Well-Known Member
Team, Club, fans are all hurting. But suggesting the Giants have 'underachieved for years' and were 'desperate' to win something is showing massive disrespect to them.....and actually showing some of us up as sore losers. Perhaps passion, grit, guts is being misinterpreted as 'desperation'.

Let's be brutally honest - better team won by a country mile last night. No point saying 'our coach is better than their coach' or 'we are top of the league'.
It's all completely irrelevant because last night, in that moment, in that place, Giants WERE better than our team.

Need to learn very quickly from this, get back to the coal face and plan and execute a system where all our players are involved (otherwise what's the point in signing players?) to damn well secure what they have been working so hard for all season. Today is a new day.
I'd say calling Giants desperate is pretty accurate but it's not in a bad way. Just means they wanted it that badly. They as a club have been on a drought since TK left and given the state of their league campaign not winning the CC could have seen sacking Walser and putting Keefe in charge plus a clear increase in budget achieving absolutely no beneficial end result. Keefe and Thornton would be aware of it and that would make them desperate to win. Given the drought they have been on saying they have underachieved for years is accurate not being a sore loser.

I think to be honest it about says what happened in the final. Belfast were completely aware of there position and gave it everything they had and got there rightful reward. They smashed it and turned up for the big game. Congrats to them. Thoroughly deserved. Are Devils guilty of unconsious complacency. Who knows. I personally believe it's that than Giants are a better team. Arrogant maybe. But a lot of being good in sport is self belief verging on arrogance. Still to play them twice. Those will be very interesting games indeed.
 

Kevlar68

Well-Known Member
on the whole the intros are really popular but people make mistakes. There’s a fine line between confidence and arrogance and on this occasion that line was crossed. I cringed when I watched it & wasnt the only one. Management shouldn’t have green lit it but what’s done is done. The Devils need to show that we are respectful organisation & the intro unfortunately sent the wrong message. We were rightly flamed for it on social media. We Devils fans are right to be passionate about our team and expectations are high due to recent success but what we don’t want to do is to become overconfident or arrogant. It probably wasn’t that intention in the intro video but that’s how it came across st the time.
The intro had passion, it had pride, it was great, but that one single word "Slay" then washed everything else aside.
One Definition:- To Slay - To kill violently.
That one word should have been replaced with "Battle".
No the intro didn't lose us the game but it would have given Belfast even more fire and desire in their guts and the backlash on social media about our intro has taken over from the actual cup final itself.
Not only that but now that intro will follow the Devils and its supporters wherever they may be due to one word of arrogance.
 

Wagstaff

Well-Known Member
Just a couple of points...

1) The intro was viewed by management and greenlit before being played. They always are.
2) I created it under the impression it would be the first video played, and only our players / fans and Giants fans would see it. Only found out it was second when I arrived at IAW, and too late to change anything by then. History shows, like the Semi Final intro, that it is written by the winners. I even publicly said on SM this week that I had left it all out there for the intro. We're a passionate fanbase.
3) My mandate was to pump up our fans. I genuinely think the volume of the response to it tonight says I didn't completely miss my mark.
4) for the last 4 CC finals, both teams have been invited to provide an intro, for what has always supposed to be a neutral venue. Both teams did that, and had free reign to send whatever they wished. This being played in Cardiff does nothing to reflect a lack of neutrality. Could have been at any of the previous finals.
5) Happy to admit I'm not flawless.
6) The intro is not why we lost.
7) This is one out of four Championships, the three remaining ones are still all within our grasp.

Just wanted to throw a couple of truths out instead of rumour and conjecture. We're all hurting right now.
Thanks all for the feedback, and to those who stopped and made comments at IAW tonight. Always appreciated and welcome.
Paul, Being a Blaze fan, I don’t attend many CC finals so I’m not aware of the protocol. My question was prior to reading your comment and if both teams have their chance to create a video to bring on an atmosphere that’s fine.
 

Temme

Well-Known Member
What a quality game Belfast brought last night. Tough, aggressive, physical, (over penalized for it which Keefe quickly managed to stop).

Exactly the kind of game that got me hooked on hockey.

Credit to Belfast for turning up prepared and taking the game to us rather than playing our game. That Saviano goal from the narrow angle was absolute postage stamp and an unbelievable snipe.

Yes there were a few shifts that certain guys would want back on the night, but the Giants would say the same, i thought they were thoroughly deserved victors on the night.
 

Mazzoak

Well-Known Member
For me last night was the perfect storm. Everything was tipped Belfast’s way. So much pressure to perform from Todd down. I’d like to see a neutral venue, the owners presence only known to fans when they take their seats. Leave meeting players until either just before or after the game.
That intro, one step too far. Maybe the extra pressure to succeed led to that. It’s so easy to loose rational thinking when expectations are high.
 
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Kevlar68

Well-Known Member
Do you know who i blame................................Mr. Snow. Booooooooooooo Mr. Snow.
If Mr. Snow hadn't had visited Thursday we would have got a game in and a days rest, Belfast would have played a game before the final so less rest and the final could have been a different story.
Blast your white cold flakes Mr. Snow. :mad::D
 
Being a devils fan I didn’t like how our anthem was played An Belfast’s wasn’t,being a neutral venue surely it’s 50\50 all the way!!!!


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DevilDom

Well-Known Member
Giants are a quality team with lots of very good players who on the night were better than us. Losing had nothing to do with intros, refs, venue or anything else other than maybe a little bit of over confidence from both players & fans. They had a game plan (a game plan which they had already used twice to beat us in IAW this season) which they executed well and outplayed us. They outworked us, out fought us and roughed us up to put us off our game and as we approach the business end of the season this worries me a little.

When we are allowed to play hockey there is no doubt in my mind we are the best team in the league. We should go on to win the league title to show this. However I think a number of teams, Belfast being one, have worked out that they can physically dominate us to put us off our game with little or no reaction. The game last night followed a very similar format to the other 2 times Belfast have beaten us at IAW this season - Devils start well, Giants up the physicality & gradually get on top forcing turnovers, Devils cut the lines, try to force things creating more errors - Giants capitalise and win. I’m not a fan of Lord cutting the lines - we did well first period trying to match the Giants physicality with Batch, Faryna, Myers getting plenty of ice time but as the game wore on they had less and less ice time which was crazy to me against them.

It’s a difficult balance. The league table doesn’t lie - We are the best hockey team, however in one off games we sometimes allow ourselves to get physically dominated. Prime example for me was when Browns was bundled into his net by Riley - not one Devils player did anything. I hope we can improve on this area for next season.
 

Hedd Wyn John

Well-Known Member
Giants are a quality team with lots of very good players who on the night were better than us. Losing had nothing to do with intros, refs, venue or anything else other than maybe a little bit of over confidence from both players & fans. They had a game plan (a game plan which they had already used twice to beat us in IAW this season) which they executed well and outplayed us. They outworked us, out fought us and roughed us up to put us off our game and as we approach the business end of the season this worries me a little.

When we are allowed to play hockey there is no doubt in my mind we are the best team in the league. We should go on to win the league title to show this. However I think a number of teams, Belfast being one, have worked out that they can physically dominate us to put us off our game with little or no reaction. The game last night followed a very similar format to the other 2 times Belfast have beaten us at IAW this season - Devils start well, Giants up the physicality & gradually get on top forcing turnovers, Devils cut the lines, try to force things creating more errors - Giants capitalise and win. I’m not a fan of Lord cutting the lines - we did well first period trying to match the Giants physicality with Batch, Faryna, Myers getting plenty of ice time but as the game wore on they had less and less ice time which was crazy to me against them.

It’s a difficult balance. The league table doesn’t lie - We are the best hockey team, however in one off games we sometimes allow ourselves to get physically dominated. Prime example for me was when Browns was bundled into his net by Riley - not one Devils player did anything. I hope we can improve on this area for next season.
Valid points, I think that when the Devils went behind they were worried about getting too physical in case they got penalised for it.
 

jimmy snels

Well-Known Member
Oh come on they have been the most passive devils team ive seen in years. Im not buying for one second we were worried about being too physical.

Intro by the way i actually really liked. I was pumped up for it. I did say at the time i thought belfast would be up for it anyhow as keefe is very animated aggressive coach. Id imagine he did use it. But if the crowd are rocking and its a massive final and you cant get up for it no one is to blame but themselves. To say the intro was the main issue just shows the same old people refusing to criticise an inept performance by the players and coach.
 

Kevlar68

Well-Known Member
Oh come on they have been the most passive devils team ive seen in years. Im not buying for one second we were worried about being too physical.

Intro by the way i actually really liked. I was pumped up for it. I did say at the time i thought belfast would be up for it anyhow as keefe is very animated aggressive coach. Id imagine he did use it. But if the crowd are rocking and its a massive final and you cant get up for it no one is to blame but themselves. To say the intro was the main issue just shows the same old people refusing to criticise an inept performance by the players and coach.
I haven't read anywhere that the intro was the main issue, all i've read was it would have helped fuel Belfast and it was a bit OTT with "Slay Giants". No one has said we lost because of the intro.
And to say team and coach were inept is crazy. So you mean they were showing no skills and amateur which means your also saying Belfast won only because we were terrible and not because of the fact that Belfast played brilliantly.
 
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As a neutral at the game (with a soft spot for Devils) I have to agree with most that the better team won on the night.

However some things baffle me re Cardiff :-
Lack of retaliation and physicality (same thing happened last year). Shortening the bench didn't work (as it didn't in the play off final last year). Maybe needed a plan B but didn't seem to have one. With so many skilled players the reluctance to shoot the puck when there is a clear cut chance is strange. The number of times a player skated into the zone and literally stopped dead and waited for someone to arrive for the pass was unreal. This allowed Whistle & his D to set up time & time again. No one seemed to want to get in the dirty areas, very few screens, there were a lot of rebounds no one got near and the amount of times players missed the net from a few feet away was amazing. I've noticed watching a few games this season that this seems to be a pattern. And yet, when they needed to win Sheffield in the semi final quick shots and up close dirty goals did the job. As it did in the 2nd & 3rd against Giants last weekend. Strange then that this strategy isn't used more, not all goals have to be 'pretty' . I felt Belfast deserved the win but also that Cardiff didn't make it hard enough for them, too many errors cost them and there didn't seem to be many good quality scoring chances.

All that said, the League is still up for grabs, Devils are in a good place for the Conference and I'd like to see them win the playoffs as the missing one from last year. I feel though that tactics may have to change to do so but I'm no coach.
 

Ocko

Well-Known Member
I don't think any Belfast players watched the intro. Our own players didn't even seem that bothered by it as they were waiting to come on.

For what it's worth I actually preferred it to our normal intro (which to me just seems like we're watching the players kitting up). I didnt like the bit featuring Sheffield as it just didnt seem relevant (a bit like the Steelers in general) but it seemed to get a reaction from most fans and the atmosphere was good after so I'd say it did it's job.
 

Ocko

Well-Known Member
I think where we fell short is that we aren't an intensity club this year, and even last to a degree. What we are is slick and efficient. We are the best team in the league by a mile IMO but we seem to play the same in almost every game. Whereas Belfast are much more up and down, they couldn't play like that every week but knew how to play to the intensity of a cup final.

The lack of ice time Batch gets pisses me off. He's given everything for the club for a number of years, is good enough but doesn't get ice over imports who are either having an off night or can't be bothered. He is one of our only physical players, in his 5 or so shifts he probably made more hits than 90% of the team. Batch's point production is actually really good considering the lack of ice time he gets. The lad deserves a chance. We will soon regret it if he's off because Bowns has European ambitions so if he and Batch go we are suddenly stuck of decent Brits.

It always seems we over play out of form players to "get them going". If players are having an off night, bench them!
 

august04

Well-Known Member
I don't think any Belfast players watched the intro. Our own players didn't even seem that bothered by it as they were waiting to come on.
Not sure if any of the Giants skating around were watching it but there were definitely a few on the blue line looking up at the screens. I remember thinking at that time, "oh no I hope they’re not taking too much notice" - but there were at least a few definitely watching it.
 

Wannabe2

Well-Known Member
The better team on the night certainly won, don’t think anyone would dispute that. We just weren’t there last night, huge build up before the game, wil it or won’t it be on, we tore them apart the other week, together we are going to be too much for them. Then a whole team of Adam Keefe’s turned up, we started well enough but slowly got ground down, by this time only one team was hitting, only one team was going into the dirty areas to win, and only one team looked like winning, are Belfast a better team than us, no way, but last night they were. We are top of the league for a reason, no one gives you that position, you earn it. Determination, Physicality, and a pure will to win was the difference last night, on the night we couldn’t match them unfortunately. Bitch of a night, but we now move on.
 
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