Cardiff Devils v Nottingham Panthers - Sun 7 Jan 2018 - League - FO 6pm - Chat/Updates

[mweller]

I sort of get the physicality thing - the second period was poor and it felt like we needed something to swing it back our way. But then we were 4-1 up. I wonder if the Fife game haunts them somewhat - 5-1 up and Paris gets chucked and the momentum swung completely. Why gift that to the opposition? As has been noted, the third period was very professional - Lord trusts his players to get the job done and not panic.
I have no doubt that in a few years time when we may not be contending for silverware people will be saying on here “the 2018 team knew how to play smart and win”. There is a revisionist tendency in this forum to always prefer past players or styles - for example, this time last year we lost three games in a row at home and everyone was complaining that Bordy did nothing.


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[Penguin13]

Dont think we were bullied at all last night.
However dancing on ice was more entertaining!
2 points great but wow I was bored.
I'll take banners all day with this brand of hockey, but what if there are no banners?

 

[Gough60]

"I came away entertained. Yes I miss the occasional fight, and big hits. When was the last time we saw a big open ice check (almost got one tonight till Strachan realised he didn't need to finish it) or a good hip check into the boards that leaves the opposition spiraling? I'll tell you what I don't miss though, playing short-benched most of the season due to injury and suspension. PKing 1/2 the game because players have to resort to hooking and slashing as they are too tired to compete from double shifting. Seeing our players suspended for 12 games where the instigating Sheffield player gets an apology from the league and medals all round. Not knowing if we'd have a rink to play out of. Not knowing who our owner was. Knowing who our owner was and wishing it wasn't. Building for the playoffs from December on. Fundraisers, booster clubs, 100 clubs, bucket collections. Going 5(?) years in a stretch not winning a single game away at the NIC."

Spot on. We are top. Happy days.

 

[Finny]

I guess some of our fans left IAW last night envious of the Panthers
"So what if we lost 5-2, we totally dominated the Devils physically!!!"

Although strangely I didn't actually hear any comments like that when I left. I've checked on their forum and on social media, and still no comments of that type.
In fact, if anything, they are critical of their own physicality.

Which is perhaps not surprising because in that opening 10 minutes we totally dominated them physically. We forechecked the hell out of them and forced their D into turnover after turnover after turnover.

How many goals were scored because of a lack of physicality from the Panthers? Most of them?
Our first goal was from Pope collecting the puck out wide, skating straight to the net unchallenged and round the netminder before firing home.
If that had been the other way around I would have expected fans to slate our defence for not stopping him.

I've forgotten which goals they were but at least two were from scrambles in front of the net. We were allowed to hack away and knock the loose puck home without anyone being challenged. If that was the other way around we'd been demanding someone smash those forwards away and onto the ice.

I wonder if fans have started remembering 'the good old days' as if they were a "Best of" DVD. 30 minutes of non-stop hits and fights. Forgetting that you'd only get one or two big hits a game and the rest of the time it was us watching the other team score.

We weren't physically dominated out there last night. Anyone who thinks that must be looking for negativity. Bowns was clipped (accidentally it appeared to me) and Hotham seemed to be hit hard but I missed what happened there. When Fournier was hit hard into the boards Louis had a word but other than that I can't remember Nottingham throwing any big checks? Even Farmer was pretty quiet last night.

The game was won after 10 minutes. We've got another huge game on Wednesday. Throwing huge checks all night long would have been a waste of energy and risking what happened against Fife again.

Sadly I think some of our fans are going to have to look for a new sport to watch if they are finding recent games boring.

 

[James]

Highlights

Interview with Pope

Interview with Lord

 

[mweller]

I meant to add - another aspect that is not particularly “entertaining” but really wins games is PK. Our PP can be a bit hit & miss, but our PK is excellent. In MK they killed a 5 min pen & last night a 2+2. Earlier in the season we were conceding on almost every PK, but holding out on these are really pivotal moments in the game. Had Panthers scored on theirs last night it would have given them impetus, but when they failed they knew it was game over.
Credit to Lord for turning this around. Like many other aspects of our game, it may not be crash and bang, but it is worth appreciating for the good hockey play that it is.


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[Red Mist]

Genuine question, in terms of physicality and skill, why does everyone seem to think it's either/or and that both is not an option?
I've seen plenty of games in the past which have had both!
Anyone remember when Nottingham had Cam Janssen in their line up, only managing to win two trophies in that single season!

The way our teams are made up is to turn a blind eye to everything in hope of getting two minutes on the powerplay. I don't like this philosophy at all. Watching our captain get knocked out badly and not even having a word, deserved or not, it wasn't nice. Watching our #1 netminder being continuously ran until he was injured by an opposition player, then doing nothing, not nice. There is a time and a place to stand up and make a point to opposing teams, but we rarely seem to show up. I know they were incidents last season, but it's all down to the coaches philosophy.

Also, tell me Bordeleau didn't run that Coventry game on his own! (You know the one where him and Lord seemed to have a disagreement)
He didn't need to drop the gloves but look at the effect he had on the opposition every time he was on the ice. That improved the atmosphere in the building no end, players/fans/coaches everyone got a lift and were excited every time he was on the ice.

You can't use the attendance increase as a point because a lot has changed in Cardiff over the last couple of years. We don't have Mickey Mouse owners anymore. Don't forget when Todd took over at the BBT the crowds were already starting to pick up! - add in to that a new facility and a lot more investment in the team and it was always going to do better because the match night experience and overall product has increased in quality.

 

[Ocko]

I wonder if fans have started remembering 'the good old days' as if they were a "Best of" DVD. 30 minutes of non-stop hits and fights. Forgetting that you'd only get one or two big hits a game and the rest of the time it was us watching the other team score.

That's the problem I think. It's always nice looking back. But we had the same complaint in the BBT often that we weren't physical enough and that Adams played boring hockey. I can't remember a season that there wasn't a complaint we arent physical enough other than Lord's first as coach. But then that was because Hendrikx would throw 1 massive hit a game (after missing about 15) and everyone would remember that one thing.

Now it's an argument that has a bandwagon and no matter how well we play or how good the result is, it's the amount of checks landed that seems more important now.

 

[E.D.S.]

Genuine question, in terms of physicality and skill, why does everyone seem to think it's either/or and that both is not an option?
I've seen plenty of games in the past which have had both!
Anyone remember when Nottingham had Cam Janssen in their line up, only managing to win two trophies in that single season!

The way our teams are made up is to turn a blind eye to everything in hope of getting two minutes on the powerplay. I don't like this philosophy at all. Watching our captain get knocked out badly and not even having a word, deserved or not, it wasn't nice. Watching our #1 netminder being continuously ran until he was injured by an opposition player, then doing nothing, not nice. There is a time and a place to stand up and make a point to opposing teams, but we rarely seem to show up. I know they were incidents last season, but it's all down to the coaches philosophy.

Also, tell me Bordeleau didn't run that Coventry game on his own! (You know the one where him and Lord seemed to have a disagreement)
He didn't need to drop the gloves but look at the effect he had on the opposition every time he was on the ice. That improved the atmosphere in the building no end, players/fans/coaches everyone got a lift and were excited every time he was on the ice.

You can't use the attendance increase as a point because a lot has changed in Cardiff over the last couple of years. We don't have Mickey Mouse owners anymore. Don't forget when Todd took over at the BBT the crowds were already starting to pick up! - add in to that a new facility and a lot more investment in the team and it was always going to do better because the match night experience and overall product has increased in quality.

Some fair points made there. Whilst I wouldn’t use the success as the only reason for the sell outs it has to be a major factor in my eyes. If the games are as dull as some people are saying, I can’t imagine everyone is turning up for the Zorb football and long queues in the cafe and bar.


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[mweller]

Also, tell me Bordeleau didn't run that Coventry game on his own! (You know the one where him and Lord seemed to have a disagreement)

This is a good example of the revisionism - yes he did, and it was brilliant. He then did nothing for the next ten games, but we forget those. I agree that someone like Bordy can offer you a plan B, which we sometimes lack, but that is quite a luxury for maybe 3 games a season. You are right about Janssen, and I think if we could get someone like him who contributed all round, we would. But they’re very rare (for our budget) which is why we all talk about him still. We have to make trade offs - would you rather Bordy who can change a game on odd occasions but maybe doesn’t offer much otherwise or someone like Faryna or Strachan who contribute more consistently? I’d go for the latter.


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[Dannyg]

I really love our team but I would still like to have an enforcer in the line up. As I am working near Cambridge at the moment I went to see MKL v Coventry Blaze on Saturday night. There was an incident where Blaze player Vojcech Kloz caught Ryan Essery in the knee as Essery tried to skate round him. Essery was in quite a lot of pain on the ice and had to be helped off. The MKL bench and crowd were furious with the 2 minute penalty on Kloz. The game restarted and Kloz served his 2 minute penalty and within a few seconds of returning to the ice MKL player Tommy Mele dropped his gloves and set about getting some retribution with Kloz. The fight only lasted a few seconds but it was enough for Mele to fire up the Lightning bench and the crowd and get them behind the MK players.
Sometimes you need something like that to fire up the crowd and getting them going. So that's why I'd like to see an enforcer.

 

[pjj365]

I really love our team but I would still like to have an enforcer in the line up. As I am working near Cambridge at the moment I went to see MKL v Coventry Blaze on Saturday night. There was an incident where Blaze player Vojcech Kloz caught Ryan Essery in the knee as Essery tried to skate round him. Essery was in quite a lot of pain on the ice and had to be helped off. The MKL bench and crowd were furious with the 2 minute penalty on Kloz. The game restarted and Kloz served his 2 minute penalty and within a few seconds of returning to the ice MKL player Tommy Mele dropped his gloves and set about getting some retribution with Kloz. The fight only lasted a few seconds but it was enough for Mele to fire up the Lightning bench and the crowd and get them behind the MK players.
Sometimes you need something like that to fire up the crowd and getting them going. So that's why I'd like to see an enforcer.

So one of your top 6 point getters is off the ice for 2 mins - did they score a PP goal when Kloz was off.Prefer to keep scorers on the ice

 

[Gazza272]

Watching our captain get knocked out badly and not even having a word, deserved or not, it wasn't nice.

That's not the best example to use for pro fighting and physicality really.

It wasn't nice and i'm glad we have chosen a style of play that will limit it being repeated.

 

[ASHIPP]

Playing smart hockey is what wins games, not spending unnecessary time in the bin. For anyone thinking the Devils did not show enough physicality last night - there was no need for them to be overtly physical. The game was won in the first period - Panthers spent more time trying to mount an attack for the rest of the game rather than utilising their more aggressive players like Gagnon, Brown, Farmer. For the Devils it was all about securing those 2 points and trying to conserve energy bearing in mind an important upcoming midweek game.

Driving the net, relentless fore checking, excellent penalty kill and goalie performance are all exciting aspects of the game in addition to puck possession and recycling. A smart game plan executed well. Judging by the wide grins and buzz amongst the crowd leaving the IAW last night, most people seemed to agree.

(Although for those posters craving physicality, there were two peachy hits on Panthers' players in p3. One by Fournier or Faryna? at the bar end, and an excellent one by Louis at the away block end. The Panthers' player just crumpled by the boards - Big Lou even hung around to see if the guy was ok!)

 

[E.D.S.]

It’s great to hear both sides of the argument and it feels like a really good debate too. Nothing daft being said so far and doesn’t it make a nice change to not be talking about why were so poor and why we never win trophies?

Whatever your preference with regards to physicality and your definition of entertainment it’s still a great time to be a Devil. I don’t think anyone can argue with that (mainly because they are banned [emoji23]!)


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[Mazzoak]

It’s hard to fault the team at this time. I don’t know why people are not entertained. I don’t get the one dimension aspect, we should have an arsenal of options, why not, we play on different size rinks, it should make sense surely. I agree we need a player/ers that can bring toughness and skill. If we finish the year successful, amazing, if we finish being bullied out of success..................

 

[bateman1969]

This league is changing just look at lower budget teams like Fife and Girlford these are small fast teams who are relative to their budgets outperforming richer clubs, the physics of having a larger ice pad will lead to a more Euro style game if we don't adapt then we potentially lose.

 

[MikeWare's DeathGlare]

I thought we played great, if there's a momentum wave then we surfed it expertly, scoring multiple times in the process.

I really like the fact that although we look to score beautiful goals, we are also happy to play the uglier side of the game.

Also I must say Pope impressed me yesterday, before then I thought he was a decent skater but his footspeed seemed a step above the norm last night.

 

[kingmo19.1]

Can't argue with the boredom factor - it's becoming a bit tedious now.
I likened it the other week to the Premier League - all a bit one dimensional and robotic - the 2 blokes I spoke to were laughing as one of them said exactly the same thing to the other the week before. They've started to be selective with their games now and watch Cardiff Fire and Fire 2 more. The latter although a lower standard appears to be more entertaining. I guess the Football analogy comes into play again with many fans preferring the lower league stuff.

 

[Outsider]

Is it really that hard to get your head around that may be Lord would prefer a power play than an individual to take matters in to their own hand? We’ve already heard of players allegedly being on a “tight leash”. I don’t know if that’s right or wrong and I’m not saying I agree with it. I’m merely putting forward an opinion as to why.
In a Coventry game thread I pretty much wrote exactly what you did that players didn’t seem to be finishing checks when they had the opportunity and thought it was odd. I don’t understand what is so perverse about it for it not to make sense.


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It's only hard to get my head around you thinking that a coach would look at the PP as more important than making sure his team " finishes their checks". A coach is responsible for all aspects of the game and they are all important. Most importantly , being on a "tight leash" as you've said is only for fighting not finishing a check, so there's no correlation between the 2 and that's where I think you're confused . Finishing checks is a very important part of the game and when the Devils skate and finish checks, there are very few teams if any that can play with them. In my mind they didn't do that on Sunday especially their defence. Having said that, some forwards need to finish them as well. When push comes to shove, no pun intended, any coach would like to see his team play under control and fight if you need to . I would be very surprised if any coach at this level would tell his team not to engage but the game dictates that. Gratuitous fighting is useless but there times when you need to take matters into your hands and we've seen some scraps this year just not as many as some of the old school fans would like to see.