Sorry Paul, unfair comparisons in my opinion. No, I wouldn't trade Hotham for Fitzgerald or indeed Martin for Desbiens, I mean, who would trade your best two players for inferior players ?? However, you have missed a point, the question More pertinent to ask perhaps is would you trade for example any one of Mo, Ulmer, Crowder or Reddick for a Fitzgerald or Desbiens ? Many would say yes based on performances thus far.
Coventry Blaze v Cardiff Devils - Sun 15 Oct 2017 - C Cup - FO 5:15pm - Chat/Updates
- Thread starter Nott Simpson
- Start date
The problem is, Paul, that we have the wrong guy doing the protecting this year. He’s ours and the leagues MVP and is too valuable on the ice to be taking silly penalties and fighting. The same happened in the Salters season when Hotham fought way too much also and he ended up with a hand injury, missed weeks of the season and was never quite the same player for the rest of that year. We've already seen his hand strapped this year. An injury is inevitable if he carries on in this way. And we need him on the ice, not sat in the stands through injury/DOPS or sitting out fighting majors.
Now Bordy may not have been ideal in the way he went about his business and I wanted more from him for sure, but nobody targeted Joey Martin the way Guildford did on Saturday at the start of the game and no-one took liberties by going for the likes of Richardson either. I wasn’t at the game on Sunday but Blaze ran riot in the physical stakes for a little while too so I read. Team toughness is a load of bull, always has been in my view when other teams have genuine toughness in the ranks. As we saw a few games ago, Faryna, while being a game middleweight, will always struggle against the likes of Gagnon, Fitzgerald etc. I don’t think we have any real intimidation at all this season. We react, yes but we don’t intimidate (there’s a big difference) and that’s still part of the game. I still think we need to go out and sign the meanest, toughest guy that we can find, preferably someone who can play a bit too, is also prepared to fight regularly when needed and let the likes of Hotham concentrate on being the best D man in the league. Then we'll see if other teams continue knocking about our star players too. Of course we'd prefer skilled players over tough guys but they’re still an important part of a teams make up in our more physical league. I watched the Stanley Cup Final and saw Crosby getting hit all over the place. This year Penguins sign Ryan Reaves. Flames sign Luke Gazdic. These players still have a role it seems, provided they can play a bit too. If it’s good enough for some NHL teams, then it’s good enough for us and we need that spark to ignite this damp squib of a season.
Now Bordy may not have been ideal in the way he went about his business and I wanted more from him for sure, but nobody targeted Joey Martin the way Guildford did on Saturday at the start of the game and no-one took liberties by going for the likes of Richardson either. I wasn’t at the game on Sunday but Blaze ran riot in the physical stakes for a little while too so I read. Team toughness is a load of bull, always has been in my view when other teams have genuine toughness in the ranks. As we saw a few games ago, Faryna, while being a game middleweight, will always struggle against the likes of Gagnon, Fitzgerald etc. I don’t think we have any real intimidation at all this season. We react, yes but we don’t intimidate (there’s a big difference) and that’s still part of the game. I still think we need to go out and sign the meanest, toughest guy that we can find, preferably someone who can play a bit too, is also prepared to fight regularly when needed and let the likes of Hotham concentrate on being the best D man in the league. Then we'll see if other teams continue knocking about our star players too. Of course we'd prefer skilled players over tough guys but they’re still an important part of a teams make up in our more physical league. I watched the Stanley Cup Final and saw Crosby getting hit all over the place. This year Penguins sign Ryan Reaves. Flames sign Luke Gazdic. These players still have a role it seems, provided they can play a bit too. If it’s good enough for some NHL teams, then it’s good enough for us and we need that spark to ignite this damp squib of a season.
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Our enforcer rarely fought last year but I would argue did bring about a significant degree of intimidation, whether warranted or not, for most of the time. And yes we did win the league and CC with such a role player in the line up. Thanks for agreeing with me on that one. Now we have our best player fighting every week and other teams showing no respect whatsoever to the likes of Martin and Richie. And we're losing regularly! I'll take my suggestion any day of the week.
I'm not saying anybody is right or wrong here it's just a forum for opinion and hockey fans but I'm intrigued as to whether you and many others think it's a coincidence that 2 of the toughest guys the EIHL has seen resulted in less fights across league.
2014-15 Devils had 46 total fights
2015-16 Devils 43 fights
IMO shows guys were not afraid to take liberties or fight any of our guys. Noble submarine hit, Captain getting stone cold KO'd. Valibik jumping Douce.....
2016-17 We had 17 fights TOTAL.....most successful season ever.
Even Fitzy had nearly 50% less fights that season compared to 2015-16.... was it because of 2 NHL big guns in conference.......possibly. In fact I'd say definitely.
Having a top tough guy does give the rest of the team a huge boost and they can play without worrying about the cheap shot artists like Noble etc.... why was Gretzky so good. Would he have clocked up the points without Semenko, Mcsorley.....
I really don't want to see 2 fights a game at home that end in 2 losses to Flames and Giants. I want to see 2 points on the board in all games with 4 trophies in the cabinet at the end of the season.
I not for one minute saying Bordy and Mcgrattan would completely stop everyone in their tracks but Bordy seemed to help us last season. Having a go to guy who is as hard as nails will certainly help the team and take the pressure off the likes of Hotham having to drop the mits. I'd rather lose an enforcer for 5 minutes than A Hotham.
2014-15 Devils had 46 total fights
2015-16 Devils 43 fights
IMO shows guys were not afraid to take liberties or fight any of our guys. Noble submarine hit, Captain getting stone cold KO'd. Valibik jumping Douce.....
2016-17 We had 17 fights TOTAL.....most successful season ever.
Even Fitzy had nearly 50% less fights that season compared to 2015-16.... was it because of 2 NHL big guns in conference.......possibly. In fact I'd say definitely.
Having a top tough guy does give the rest of the team a huge boost and they can play without worrying about the cheap shot artists like Noble etc.... why was Gretzky so good. Would he have clocked up the points without Semenko, Mcsorley.....
I really don't want to see 2 fights a game at home that end in 2 losses to Flames and Giants. I want to see 2 points on the board in all games with 4 trophies in the cabinet at the end of the season.
I not for one minute saying Bordy and Mcgrattan would completely stop everyone in their tracks but Bordy seemed to help us last season. Having a go to guy who is as hard as nails will certainly help the team and take the pressure off the likes of Hotham having to drop the mits. I'd rather lose an enforcer for 5 minutes than A Hotham.
Its about balance and I've said it from day 1 when the roster was complete. People have banged on about being a fast team rather than a tough one but we are not either. Ive also had the owner come on and say its difficult to sign the right tough player, i see a dozen still unsigned so its not impossible. My way of discribing our team is we have a number of jacks of all trades masters at none. We have some stars in martin hotham bowns. We have a few really good players. But i agree with the vast majority of fans we have not a single intimidating player. We have some tough ones, none intimidating though. Bordy's lack of fighting should not be confused with the amount of times he turned a game around. Or stop opposition players taking the micky. Do u think Guilford the other night would be taking all those cheap shots if bordy ran over a couple of their players and set the tone? Not a chance. On another side Do u think that mark louis is a good swap for doty, hotham for paquet? Not a chance. Would those lads fancy a dance with a bordy or a voth or a mcwilliam as much for that matter? No.
We also have a couple of players who are clearly slower than their team mates.
Paul to compare bordy and mcgrattons pims i think actually made the point of how well our lad did. Intimidated but didnt put us on pk. Made huge hits but no calls. And he played on pk not pp like Mcgratton. On 4th line not 2nd. I actually thought we underutilized him at times.
We signed a team this year lacking key areas from the year before. Effectively: brine replaced with crowder. Bordy by reddick (batch taken his place in fwds). paris for hotham. Farayna for culligan. Pope for doucet. Id argue that only the last one of those has proven to be any better than the man he replaced and a couple of them were replacing ex nhl players so the budget was clearly spent elsewhere or someone is crazy! And also more alarming was the resigning of a player who only turned up for 3 months at the end of the season and an injured captain trying to rediscover form and fitness.
I think we could easily bring in a fast scorer, a tough forward who can play and a no nonsense d man imo. I look at some of the guys available and i wonder if now the training camps are done we could try to get a few higher level players in.
I dont know how much brandon prust was on in germany for example but he'd be right on my radar in my fantasy league!
We also have a couple of players who are clearly slower than their team mates.
Paul to compare bordy and mcgrattons pims i think actually made the point of how well our lad did. Intimidated but didnt put us on pk. Made huge hits but no calls. And he played on pk not pp like Mcgratton. On 4th line not 2nd. I actually thought we underutilized him at times.
We signed a team this year lacking key areas from the year before. Effectively: brine replaced with crowder. Bordy by reddick (batch taken his place in fwds). paris for hotham. Farayna for culligan. Pope for doucet. Id argue that only the last one of those has proven to be any better than the man he replaced and a couple of them were replacing ex nhl players so the budget was clearly spent elsewhere or someone is crazy! And also more alarming was the resigning of a player who only turned up for 3 months at the end of the season and an injured captain trying to rediscover form and fitness.
I think we could easily bring in a fast scorer, a tough forward who can play and a no nonsense d man imo. I look at some of the guys available and i wonder if now the training camps are done we could try to get a few higher level players in.
I dont know how much brandon prust was on in germany for example but he'd be right on my radar in my fantasy league!
I find the revisionist history both on this forum and also on Twitter and personal conversations at IAW to be shocking. Last year all I read on here early on is how much we missed Hendo and that Benti and Ulmer should be sacked. The recurring theme was that despite bringing Bordy in that our skill players were being taken advantage of without retribution. It annoyed people that Hotham was leading he team in fights last year. Hendo jumping Lord, foul play on Hotham, Bowns and others all went unanswered last year. I have no idea how people have forgotten that and now feel that Bordy was such a key cog. To me, that very issue was the only slight blemish on a magical year.
So this year, our team has stuck up for each other on every occasion- most recently Hotham but previously Batch, Louis and Faryna. To talk about toughness as the reason for a couple more losses than last year at this stage is quite frankly just flat out wrong. The reason for our losses has been suspect team defensive play, and special teams.
The pervasive negativity surrounding this team from some fans seems to have fed on itself. That's certainly your right and prerogative but I would have thought that the last three years of success from these players and this staff would have earned a wee bit more trust and patience. I know for myself I'll be taking a break from things as I've found that it's really taken some of the joy out of the season. I get as mad as anybody after a loss but my goodness folks - this is Mid-October and we're still very much in the hunt for every piece of hardware! I know we've gone through this every year but this year seems particularly venomous and it's been noticed by the players.
Changes will only be made if a sizeable upgrade can be made. If that happens, great. If not, I hope this group gets the tremendous support that you've given them in the past. I can absolutely guarantee that they'll be giving everything they've got both on the ice and in the community. Will they win it all again? I still expect to but the beauty of sports is that nobody ever know how things play out.
Sorry for the rant but I had to vent. Also, please don't take this as trying to prevent negative comments on this forum. Absolutely fair game whether justified or not.
So this year, our team has stuck up for each other on every occasion- most recently Hotham but previously Batch, Louis and Faryna. To talk about toughness as the reason for a couple more losses than last year at this stage is quite frankly just flat out wrong. The reason for our losses has been suspect team defensive play, and special teams.
The pervasive negativity surrounding this team from some fans seems to have fed on itself. That's certainly your right and prerogative but I would have thought that the last three years of success from these players and this staff would have earned a wee bit more trust and patience. I know for myself I'll be taking a break from things as I've found that it's really taken some of the joy out of the season. I get as mad as anybody after a loss but my goodness folks - this is Mid-October and we're still very much in the hunt for every piece of hardware! I know we've gone through this every year but this year seems particularly venomous and it's been noticed by the players.
Changes will only be made if a sizeable upgrade can be made. If that happens, great. If not, I hope this group gets the tremendous support that you've given them in the past. I can absolutely guarantee that they'll be giving everything they've got both on the ice and in the community. Will they win it all again? I still expect to but the beauty of sports is that nobody ever know how things play out.
Sorry for the rant but I had to vent. Also, please don't take this as trying to prevent negative comments on this forum. Absolutely fair game whether justified or not.
People are simplifying this debate to suit there hockey persuasion. By that i mean for many many many years Cardiff have played a certain style of bang crash physical and yes intimidatory hockey. As fans we are used to seeing the Devils bully teams of the ice and when it comes back the other way the reaction from fans is pretty apocalyptic. I will agree that a potential link can be made that nearly every time a Devils team has had success it has contained what you could deem the toughest guy in the league. Ware, Macwilliam and even yes Bordy were huge factors in gaining silver ware.
But I think people are missing the biggest part of the current situation. For the last three years Devils have had the best special teams in the league. If teams took dumb penalties for cheap shots against our players they usually got punished with conceding a goal. Opposition coaches knew the score and would bring there players inline to have any hope of beating the Devils. Now Devils pp is currently crap of that there is no doubt and opposition coaches know this as well so they can chance there arm a bit more in the tactics they use and be a bit more cheap in targeting Devils good players as the fear of conceding is not as great.
So to sum up. Yes there may be a physical intimidation factor slightly missing but for my pennies worth if I were Lordo I'd be trying to get that PP firing pronto and get the intimidation of facing the leagues best PP back. Watch how quickly the opposition coaches get there guys on a leash if Devils PP starts firing as indiscipline will get them smoked.
Just saying there is a coaching route out of this not just a roster turnover route as some seem to think is the only course of action right now.
But I think people are missing the biggest part of the current situation. For the last three years Devils have had the best special teams in the league. If teams took dumb penalties for cheap shots against our players they usually got punished with conceding a goal. Opposition coaches knew the score and would bring there players inline to have any hope of beating the Devils. Now Devils pp is currently crap of that there is no doubt and opposition coaches know this as well so they can chance there arm a bit more in the tactics they use and be a bit more cheap in targeting Devils good players as the fear of conceding is not as great.
So to sum up. Yes there may be a physical intimidation factor slightly missing but for my pennies worth if I were Lordo I'd be trying to get that PP firing pronto and get the intimidation of facing the leagues best PP back. Watch how quickly the opposition coaches get there guys on a leash if Devils PP starts firing as indiscipline will get them smoked.
Just saying there is a coaching route out of this not just a roster turnover route as some seem to think is the only course of action right now.
Steve i think a lot of the negativity is more down to frustration.
We've seen that the team can perform in the CHL but when you watch us against teams like Guildford Coventry etc (no disrespect to either of those teams) its like a totally different team out there. I agree its our defensive play and special teams that are not working. Why i dont know because the majority of personnel are the same but something is not clicking.
I guess as fans we had too many years of making do and owners who really couldnt care less about the hockey. The last 3 years we have been spoilt and i guess we dont want to give it up.
We've seen that the team can perform in the CHL but when you watch us against teams like Guildford Coventry etc (no disrespect to either of those teams) its like a totally different team out there. I agree its our defensive play and special teams that are not working. Why i dont know because the majority of personnel are the same but something is not clicking.
I guess as fans we had too many years of making do and owners who really couldnt care less about the hockey. The last 3 years we have been spoilt and i guess we dont want to give it up.
I'm intrigued to see whether this opinion will remain the same if Hotham / Martin is taken out in the way that Faulkner was by the Giants a few years back. At the moment, i don't see the deterrent. Even Guildford were running around taking cheap shots at us, and their toughest player is straight out of college.
From my vantage, I don't want an out and out goon, but I don't want to turn up week in / week out and feel like we've been bullied.
He split opinion but Bordy's presence ensured that this didn't happen. I've seen more runs at our star players so far this year than i did all of last season. Forgive me if that's a little concerning to me.
From my vantage, I don't want an out and out goon, but I don't want to turn up week in / week out and feel like we've been bullied.
He split opinion but Bordy's presence ensured that this didn't happen. I've seen more runs at our star players so far this year than i did all of last season. Forgive me if that's a little concerning to me.
I think in this regard we have completely changed the way we are using the PP this season. It's too focused on the Paris shot. Yes, it worked on the 5on3 v Blaze, but many times on the 5on4 we haven't been able to create the shooting lane for his shot. But instead of trying something different to unlock the D, we resort to the same cycle.
We were clinical on the PP last year without having the bomb from the point and I think Lord needs to move back towards Martin from the hash marks, which has been effective for three years now.
We were clinical on the PP last year without having the bomb from the point and I think Lord needs to move back towards Martin from the hash marks, which has been effective for three years now.
Some people on here talk some serious sense to....
Don't tell me after 16 years of hockey along with a load of other posters like wannabe who have been supporting Devils for many years know nothing..
We know quite a lot.
We have seen it all and more than confident when something is wrong we will say it openly.
This season is one of them simple as.
Don't tell me after 16 years of hockey along with a load of other posters like wannabe who have been supporting Devils for many years know nothing..
We know quite a lot.
We have seen it all and more than confident when something is wrong we will say it openly.
This season is one of them simple as.
Yes Steve, it’s a good idea to take a break from this site at times. It’s not good for the soul. I’m sure you’re already aware, but it is just a small minority of fans that are somehow still negative after the last three years. Most of us still can’t quite believe how lucky we are with what we’ve got.
Nothing wrong with criticising a bad performance or result, it’s what the forum is for, to discuss these matters. But as you have said, negativity is always a running theme on here, whatever the situation, so best to ignore and focus on the things that matter. Hope to see you back in Cardiff soon!
Edit: Also pretty amusing that these comments have been made on a thread for a game we won.
Nothing wrong with criticising a bad performance or result, it’s what the forum is for, to discuss these matters. But as you have said, negativity is always a running theme on here, whatever the situation, so best to ignore and focus on the things that matter. Hope to see you back in Cardiff soon!
Edit: Also pretty amusing that these comments have been made on a thread for a game we won.
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